G-Sync that important?
Hey Guys,

I have a G-sync capable Monitor but for HDR sake I lately connected a HDMI cable to it as the Monitor supports deeper blacks with it.

Although HDR looks much better I found that I often find myself wondering if my fps are on par.

Right now I'm playing Valhalla and although turning V-Sync on I recognize screen tearing and sometimes it also feels "unsmooth" it's not stuttery but as if my FPS went down to 45-50ish. And I can feel it although I play with Gamepad. What in general makes me less sensitive to fps.
Then I activate the fps counter and it's around 70fps. With HDMI the Monitor only supports 75Hz.

Now I wonder if it's just due to missing G-Sync or if my brain might do some tricks on me.

Anyone got some experience with it or did some testing?
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1630/50 megjegyzés mutatása
TeamGunstar eredeti hozzászólása:
AiR-Soulreaver eredeti hozzászólása:

I love this Monitor and I aknowledge it's up's and down's with HDR. It's actual peak brightness goes to 700nits when in HDR Mode. I think it's is the 10% peak brightness. It's good in games where you are a lot outside and don't need the local dimming. In games like Tomb Raider it's awfull because the local dimming makes it almost look like a dimming on/off firework

sustained might be 450.

Regarding deep black mode I specified it on the post above.

I have a DP 1.4 Cable.

The monitor is faking 700nits, the actual output is 450nits. Leave HDR off you're literally ruining your picture quality.

As for the deeper blacks, use DP and go into your nvidia settings and set the color space from limited to full under "output dynamic range", color output depth to 10bit, and Output color format to RGB.
Gunstar you're Out.
AiR-Soulreaver eredeti hozzászólása:
TeamGunstar eredeti hozzászólása:

The monitor is faking 700nits, the actual output is 450nits. Leave HDR off you're literally ruining your picture quality.

As for the deeper blacks, use DP and go into your nvidia settings and set the color space from limited to full under "output dynamic range", color output depth to 10bit, and Output color format to RGB.
Gunstar you're Out.
What?

I think what you're doing is crushing black levels. If you can't see ALL the black squares in this test:

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php

Then you're crushing blacks. Use that site and calibrate your monitor.
These are your monitors specs:

https://www.lg.com/uk/monitors/lg-38WN95C-W

Right off the site:

Brightness (Typ.) 450 (Typ.), 360 (Min.) cd/m2

Thats the specific brightness of the panel, you're getting it confused with the contrast ratio listed:

Contrast Ratio (Original) 1000:1 (Typ), 700:1 (Min.)

HDR is a terrible idea to use with your particular monitor. Don't take that as me saying your monitor is bad, its not at all, but its not designed for HDR it's just a marketing ploy.

What you want to do is turn off all that junk...deep blacks...super black...dynamic contrast, whatever. Get it to base line, and then go to the website I posted and calibrate your monitor correctly. I'd bet money you're crushing black levels, all the detail in whites are blown out, and its just a mess.
TeamGunstar eredeti hozzászólása:
These are your monitors specs:

https://www.lg.com/uk/monitors/lg-38WN95C-W

Right off the site:

Brightness (Typ.) 450 (Typ.), 360 (Min.) cd/m2

Thats the specific brightness of the panel, you're getting it confused with the contrast ratio listed:

Contrast Ratio (Original) 1000:1 (Typ), 700:1 (Min.)

HDR is a terrible idea to use with your particular monitor. Don't take that as me saying your monitor is bad, its not at all, but its not designed for HDR it's just a marketing ploy.

What you want to do is turn off all that junk...deep blacks...super black...dynamic contrast, whatever. Get it to base line, and then go to the website I posted and calibrate your monitor correctly. I'd bet money you're crushing black levels, all the detail in whites are blown out, and its just a mess.

I'm happy to see you also have a nice side. So I'll engage with you although this Threads intention was never to discuss my Monitors HDR capabilitys as I know that people are as opinionated by it as with 144Hz. And it's a pain in the a** to discuss it.

But here we go.

The Settings you mentionend in your first answer are settings I already went above and beyond to find any kind of improvement so I settled with the standard (what you mentionend)

Regarding HDR peak brightness
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/lg/38wn95c-w
Just a short scroll down.
But in short:
HDR Peak 711nits/ SDR Peak 475nits

So I didn't conflate Contrast and Brightness. To be honest I'm a bit annoyed by the fact that in the first instance one does assume I didn't do my homework. Especially with such an expensive build and Monitor. But whatever.

My only problem with my Monitor's HDR is the local dimming. As I already said above. As it only has 8 or 10 edge lit dimming zones. So this doesn't work at all in dark settings.

Aside from this. Isn't it good for me that I prefer my Monitors HDR over SDR? I mean even if it's not the full deal? Isn't subjective better especially in gaming (where allmost everything is subjective) still better?

I will test out your website as I'm keen to test whatever might improve my Gaming experience as I'm a very visual guy.
Legutóbb szerkesztette: Soulreaver; 2022. jan. 29., 7:03
with hdmi have you tried adding a custom resolution and manually adding the 144 hz and tested it to see if it works?
emoticorpse eredeti hozzászólása:
with hdmi have you tried adding a custom resolution and manually adding the 144 hz and tested it to see if it works?

I actually didn't :D dumb me.

Edit.: Wow that crashed my whole System. Didn't even know this could happen.


TeamGunstar eredeti hozzászólása:
AiR-Soulreaver eredeti hozzászólása:
Gunstar you're Out.
What?

I think what you're doing is crushing black levels. If you can't see ALL the black squares in this test:

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php

Then you're crushing blacks. Use that site and calibrate your monitor.

Yes you were right I was crushing my blacks.

But I realy don't like the correct black levels. What's also weird. If I use the "Vesa Certified" Picture Mode I only get to black level 3. If I go for "vivid", "Cinema" or one of the others those black levels are very easy to distinguish.
Legutóbb szerkesztette: Soulreaver; 2022. jan. 29., 7:19
emoticorpse eredeti hozzászólása:
with hdmi have you tried adding a custom resolution and manually adding the 144 hz and tested it to see if it works?

Careful with that. I would only do that in increments going above your native refresh rate. There is a potential to damage the display. Not saying it will, but it is like overclocking your display.
AiR-Soulreaver eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm happy to see you also have a nice side. So I'll engage with you although this Threads intention was never to discuss my Monitors HDR capabilitys as I know that people are as opinionated by it as with 144Hz.

Of course brother I was just trying to help you out is all, I calibrate TVs/Monitors all the time so I get a bit passionate about it is all, but my intention is indeed to help.

AiR-Soulreaver eredeti hozzászólása:

But here we go.

The Settings you mentionend in your first answer are settings I already went above and beyond to find any kind of improvement so I settled with the standard (what you mentionend)

Regarding HDR peak brightness
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/lg/38wn95c-w
Just a short scroll down.
But short HDR Peak 711nits/ SDR Peak 475nits

I've not checked this link you've provided, I would only go by the specifications listed on your manufacturers website honestly.

AiR-Soulreaver eredeti hozzászólása:
So I didn't conflate Contrast and Brightness. To be honest I'm a bit annoyed by the fact that in the first instance one does assume I didn't do my homework. Especially with such an expensive build and Monitor. But whatever.

My bad, really when I start talking about stuff it tends to just spew out in a see of blah. I didn't intend on offending you and for that I am sorry. I assumed you did do your homework, as I would anyone here, I don't think those of us that don't are not buzzing around a hardware forum. We're all the same kind of people, interested in tech and wanting to learn, etc. One thing I would disagree with is "especially an expensive build and monitor", as I don't think dollars spent = passion for our interest right. Regardless; I do apologize.

AiR-Soulreaver eredeti hozzászólása:
My only problem with my Monitor's HDR is the local dimming. As I already said above. As it only has 8 or 10 edge lit dimming zones. So this doesn't work at all in dark settings.

Aside from this. Isn't it good for me that I prefer my Monitors HDR over SDR? I mean even if it's not the full deal? Isn't subjective better especially in gaming still better?

Of course you're free to enjoy things the way you want to, its your stuff go nuts. What I was saying is if your monitor is using artificial means to display an image enhanced from what it actually is right...dynamic contrast, or in the HDTV space using 120 motion interpolation, as opposed to the native 60hz, etc...effects that change the way the image is supposed to be displayed, are undesirable because they are fake. 10,0000:1 contrast ratios, crushing blacks, all this stuff is ruining the image.

You think "this looks good and contrasty, the colors pop and this is amazing" but its just a superficial pop. The true image, you're missing details in the shadows, you're missing highlights in the clouds. If you're used to an artificial image, with artificial enhancements, you'll think just going to the more accurate image it looks down right dull. But the beauty is in the small details, and the get lost. People in the HDTV space fall for this all the time, they leave their HDTVs in burn mode, where everything is cranked for the show room floor, and is intended on selling the TV based on a flashy image.

But only in accurate, true calibration can one see every detail, and you won't be missing out on any of the information within the image. You can use that website I provided and get a good accurate picture, or you can find online tools from various companies like THX, etc.

But if you like it that way, go for it. I'm just saying if you want your display to display the actual information that its being provided, you must turn off enhancements and calibrate.

AiR-Soulreaver eredeti hozzászólása:

I will test out your website as I'm keen to test whatever might improve my Gaming experience as I'm a very visual guy.

I think you'll enjoy your monitor even more, you'll go into caves and see all the detail you've missed, you'll see differences in cloud variation, etc. I think you'll appreciate your monitor even more as it has very good color range.
AiR-Soulreaver eredeti hozzászólása:
emoticorpse eredeti hozzászólása:
with hdmi have you tried adding a custom resolution and manually adding the 144 hz and tested it to see if it works?

I actually didn't :D dumb me.

Edit.: Wow that crashed my whole System. Didn't even know this could happen.


TeamGunstar eredeti hozzászólása:
What?

I think what you're doing is crushing black levels. If you can't see ALL the black squares in this test:

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php

Then you're crushing blacks. Use that site and calibrate your monitor.

Yes you were right I was crushing my blacks.

But I realy don't like the correct black levels. What's also weird. If I use the "Vesa Certified" Picture Mode I only get to black level 3. If I go for "vivid", "Cinema" or one of the others those black levels are very easy to distinguish.

damn, my bad. Is it ok?. Your monitor is 144 hz though right?


ZeekAncient eredeti hozzászólása:
emoticorpse eredeti hozzászólása:
with hdmi have you tried adding a custom resolution and manually adding the 144 hz and tested it to see if it works?

Careful with that. I would only do that in increments going above your native refresh rate. There is a potential to damage the display. Not saying it will, but it is like overclocking your display.

Yeah, sorry. I heard that can happen but it's never happened to me. Always been a smooth ride and worked at first attempts. Didn't really think there was a good chance of it happening.
emoticorpse eredeti hozzászólása:

ZeekAncient eredeti hozzászólása:

Careful with that. I would only do that in increments going above your native refresh rate. There is a potential to damage the display. Not saying it will, but it is like overclocking your display.

Yeah, sorry. I heard that can happen but it's never happened to me. Always been a smooth ride and worked at first attempts. Didn't really think there was a good chance of it happening.

It obviously varies from display to display, but if he is only able to got up to 75 with an HDMI capable, then I wouldn't try a custom res with 144hz right away. I would start with 80 and work from there. It might not make it all the way up to 144hz but maybe 90 or something like that. But again, with an HDMI cable, I don't think the result would be as good as with Display Port. It could introduce some flickering.

My advice, but obviously you can do what you want, but if your display has Display Port and you get 144hz and Gsync with that and only 75hz with HDMI, I would ditch the HDMI and stick with Display Port. But that is just me.
Legutóbb szerkesztette: ZeekAncient; 2022. jan. 29., 7:27
ZeekAncient eredeti hozzászólása:
emoticorpse eredeti hozzászólása:
with hdmi have you tried adding a custom resolution and manually adding the 144 hz and tested it to see if it works?

Careful with that. I would only do that in increments going above your native refresh rate. There is a potential to damage the display. Not saying it will, but it is like overclocking your display.
With his HDMI version on the 2080ti I don't think he can go over 120hz with HDMI. For 144hz he must (and should) be using the DP. *I may be wrong, reading about it*
Legutóbb szerkesztette: Decathect; 2022. jan. 29., 7:28
TeamGunstar eredeti hozzászólása:
ZeekAncient eredeti hozzászólása:

Careful with that. I would only do that in increments going above your native refresh rate. There is a potential to damage the display. Not saying it will, but it is like overclocking your display.
With his HDMI version on the 2080ti I don't think he can go over 120hz with HDMI. For 144hz he must (and should) be using the DP.

Yeah that is true, I forgot about that. You probably will only be able to get up to 120hz with HDMI. Again, I would stick with DP.
Legutóbb szerkesztette: ZeekAncient; 2022. jan. 29., 7:29
ZeekAncient eredeti hozzászólása:
emoticorpse eredeti hozzászólása:



Yeah, sorry. I heard that can happen but it's never happened to me. Always been a smooth ride and worked at first attempts. Didn't really think there was a good chance of it happening.

I obviously varies from display to display, but if he is only able to got up to 75 with an HDMI capable, then I wouldn't try a custom res with 144hz right away. I would start with 80 and work from there. It might not make it all the way up to 144hz but maybe 90 or something like that. But again, with an HDMI cable, I don't think the result would be as good as with Display Port. It could introduce some flickering.

My advice, but obviously you can do what you want, but if your display has Display Port and you get 144hz and Gsync with that and only 75hz with HDMI, I would ditch the HDMI and stick with Display Port. But that is just me.

Well, when he said it only goes up to 75 HZ I assumed it was the highest option available in the Nvidia resolution settings which in my experience is almost always gimping you from what your monitor is capable of. I always have to override it and add custom resolution but it works when I add it.

So I guess what I should say is he should try the 120 hz instead of the 144 and see if he likes the fps on there and color options?.

Also when he said his display looks "unsmooth" at 75 fps is it not possibly because of the uneven number of frames in 75 fps and the odd ones being dropped sometimes?
Legutóbb szerkesztette: emoticorpse; 2022. jan. 29., 7:31
emoticorpse eredeti hozzászólása:
ZeekAncient eredeti hozzászólása:

I obviously varies from display to display, but if he is only able to got up to 75 with an HDMI capable, then I wouldn't try a custom res with 144hz right away. I would start with 80 and work from there. It might not make it all the way up to 144hz but maybe 90 or something like that. But again, with an HDMI cable, I don't think the result would be as good as with Display Port. It could introduce some flickering.

My advice, but obviously you can do what you want, but if your display has Display Port and you get 144hz and Gsync with that and only 75hz with HDMI, I would ditch the HDMI and stick with Display Port. But that is just me.

Well, when he said it only goes up to 75 HZ I assumed it was the highest option available in the Nvidia resolution settings which in my experience is almost always gimping you from what your monitor is capable of. I always have to override it and add custom resolution but it works when I add it.

I know what you are saying. I have done the same thing. But I have also gotten some results before that weren't that good. Like, I was able to raise the refresh rate, but the picture quality wasn't as good for some reason.
@TeamGunstar

So I tested around with the black level setting and the different picture modes. Until I remembered that Valhalla uses a Fake HDR.

However the general Image of Black level "low" that outputs a deeper black I enjoy more.
Ingame the setting also produces a somewhat equal amount of detail in dark areas (went into a cave) although the linked Homepage shows otherwise. I think that's where Valhalla's fake HDR comes into place.

Overall I enjoyed my "unoptimized" settings more. It actually wasn't as contrasty rather the opposit the image was more "bland". But it looked more realistic and what was important for me is that the bright areas seemed bright and the dark areas seemed dark.

Like I said this Thread also wasn't meant to be about HDR so I think the HDR Topic can be closed. As I don't want to download a real HDR Title now to test everything out again as it can be very time intensive. But I made a Bookmark to the Blacklevel Homepage to use it later on.

___________________________________________________________________________

@The Others

Yeah my Display is 144Hz capable. Maybe my HDMI Cable has a to low Version to display 120hz might test that one out too.
Although I'm a bit confused by my system hang up at 140Hz. For now I'd stay away from Display OC.

I tested another HDMI cable. Still 75Hz on both inputs. Might be that both have a to low version. But atleast the first one came with the monitor. So I'd assume it isn't to low.
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1630/50 megjegyzés mutatása
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Közzétéve: 2022. jan. 29., 2:21
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