Amd 5600x vs intel i7 10700k

[Cuddle Bunny]

Hello honey bunnies, I can't decide on my next cpu! I want future proof. I Wana pair it with a 3080. I will OC it.

Intel offers 2 more cores, but amd offers pcie 4.0.

They're basically the same thing, for today's games. But what about tomorrow's games? Which cpu should I choose?

[Guydodge]

引用自 _I_：

10700k is cheaper than 5600x

pci-e 4.0 has no benefit over 3.0 at this time
4.0 has more bandwidth, but 3.0 x16 is more than any current gpu needs
only real pro is that a 4.0 x1 lane can run more devices

if you like to oc and tweak, intel is the way to go
get a z board and good cooler

ryzen oc is near pointless, they will boost to what cooling and power can provide
5800x is better, but costs about $150 more

either way, get a good board with vrm cooling and better cpu cooler

exactly this

[Cuddle Bunny]

引用自 Yamantaka：

Between those two I'd recommend going for 10700k. Extra cores will provide more in future. Just get decent cooler.

https://youtu.be/JSwe1cOkZbY

Ok I'm leaning towards the intel chip, thanks to all your comments. Appreciate the input.

Some YouTube's suggest that latest games utilize all 16 lanes and that next gen will need more.

It kinda worries me

[🦜Cloud Boy🦜]

Ryzen 5000 series CPUs are already overclocked at their best out of the box, that's why they can't be overclocked any further. But intel-K CPUs still have some room for overclocking.
If you overclock intel, both intel and Ryzen have SAME gaming performance.

Ryzen 5600x is equal to i5-10600k
Ryzen 5800x is equal to i7-10700K

[r.linder]

引用自 🌈Cloud Boy🌈：

Ryzen 5000 series CPUs are already overclocked at their best out of the box, that's why they can't be overclocked any further. But intel-K CPUs still have some room for overclocking.
If you overclock intel, both intel and Ryzen have SAME gaming performance.

Ryzen 5600x is equal to i5-10600k
Ryzen 5800x is equal to i7-10700K

It's also dangerous to OC Ryzen because 7nm is too sensitive and dense.
FIT automatically protects the chip by limiting voltage based on current flow but manual OC doesn't have that failsafe
For most 7nm Ryzen CPUs, voltages closer to 1.2v or even lower are the safe limit at max current draw

[Illusion of Progress]

引用自 Cuddle Bunny：

Ok I'm leaning towards the intel chip, thanks to all your comments. Appreciate the input.

Some YouTube's suggest that latest games utilize all 16 lanes and that next gen will need more.

It kinda worries me

PCI Express 4.0 is not going to be necessary, and the lack of it won't limit GPU performance, any time soon. As someone who's been around to see AGP grow and then be replaced by PCI Express, they've always typically offered much more bandwidth than GPUs needed, which made sense.

AGP8x came when AGP4x wasn't being fully utilized. When PCI Express 3.0 came, PCI Express 1.0 was PLENTY. PCI Express 4.0 is definitely nice to have, but by time a GPU comes that will actually be LIMITED by not having the bandwidth it offers there, it'll be a GPU so fast that either of the CPUs you're looking at will be way, way old news. So unless you try to put a RTX 12095 Ti BBQ FTW into that same PC in 10 years and expect the full 300 FPS at 8K it can provide instead of the measly 280 FPS, you'll be fine.

As someone who went the Ryzen route as pricing was different at the time, it's NOT really an advantage and the Intel option will be fine without it.

The place it might actually matter more is with storage, but if you're not planning to use multiple NVMe drives while doing large writing/copying or something, you should be fine.

[Illusion of Progress]

引用自 Escorve：

It's also dangerous to OC Ryzen because 7nm is too sensitive and dense.
FIT automatically protects the chip by limiting voltage based on current flow but manual OC doesn't have that failsafe
For most 7nm Ryzen CPUs, voltages closer to 1.2v or even lower are the safe limit at max current draw

I'd say that's probably more down to Ryzen itself than 7nm though, no?

Every time a die shrink happens, the talk comes up of "it's more sensitive". When Core 2 went to 45nm, I remember everyone going "you have to give it less, it can't take as much as 65nm". With Sandy Bridge it was "don't go over 1.4V, ideally stay below 1.35V". Years later, and it's "Sandy Bridge can take everything" and now these 7nm Ryzens are running up to 1.5V (but it's selectively depending on load). Voltage has always presented more danger if the current and temperatures were higher though, and on older CPUs, voltage was pretty much static per core AND dropped under load due to Vdrop/Vdroop. But everything always seems more sensitive at the time because it's simply unknown, or not identical to pre-established norms.

Of course, you do have to be careful. When Northwood came out, it was something like 1.7V+ would cause "SNDS" (sudden Northwood death syndrome).

[r.linder]

引用自 Illusion of Progress：

引用自 Escorve：

It's also dangerous to OC Ryzen because 7nm is too sensitive and dense.
FIT automatically protects the chip by limiting voltage based on current flow but manual OC doesn't have that failsafe
For most 7nm Ryzen CPUs, voltages closer to 1.2v or even lower are the safe limit at max current draw

I'd say that's probably more down to Ryzen itself than 7nm though, no?

Every time a die shrink happens, the talk comes up of "it's more sensitive". When Core 2 went to 45nm, I remember everyone going "you have to give it less, it can't take as much as 65nm". With Sandy Bridge it was "don't go over 1.4V, ideally stay below 1.35V". Years later, and it's "Sandy Bridge can take everything" and now these 7nm Ryzens are running up to 1.5V (but it's selectively depending on load). Voltage has always presented more danger if the current and temperatures were higher though, and on older CPUs, voltage was pretty much static per core AND dropped under load due to Vdrop/Vdroop. But everything always seems more sensitive at the time because it's simply unknown, or not identical to pre-established norms.

Of course, you do have to be careful. When Northwood came out, it was something like 1.7V+ would cause "SNDS" (sudden Northwood death syndrome).

It's directly related to the node itself this time because the node is small enough that some care had to go into the engineering.

[xSOSxHawkens]

引用自 Illusion of Progress：

引用自 Cuddle Bunny：

Ok I'm leaning towards the intel chip, thanks to all your comments. Appreciate the input.

Some YouTube's suggest that latest games utilize all 16 lanes and that next gen will need more.

It kinda worries me

PCI Express 4.0 is not going to be necessary, and the lack of it won't limit GPU performance, any time soon. As someone who's been around to see AGP grow and then be replaced by PCI Express, they've always typically offered much more bandwidth than GPUs needed, which made sense.

AGP8x came when AGP4x wasn't being fully utilized. When PCI Express 3.0 came, PCI Express 1.0 was PLENTY. PCI Express 4.0 is definitely nice to have, but by time a GPU comes that will actually be LIMITED by not having the bandwidth it offers there, it'll be a GPU so fast that either of the CPUs you're looking at will be way, way old news. So unless you try to put a RTX 12095 Ti BBQ FTW into that same PC in 10 years and expect the full 300 FPS at 8K it can provide instead of the measly 280 FPS, you'll be fine.

As someone who went the Ryzen route as pricing was different at the time, it's NOT really an advantage and the Intel option will be fine without it.

The place it might actually matter more is with storage, but if you're not planning to use multiple NVMe drives while doing large writing/copying or something, you should be fine.

Though I agree with most of this, the point you make per your own limitation is:

"...they've always typically offered much more bandwidth than GPUs needed..."

And here is where I think this go around is different. Previously the only (truely) data heavy part in most consumer or gaming systems was the GPU and it had (more or less) the entirety of the bus to itself most of the time.

Now it is more and more common for at *least* 4 lanes to go to another data heavy I/O device, the NVMe.

Combine those two parts with the now current push in all areas of gaming to embrace large scale streaming data flow, something brought on by the incredibly high speed low level access mothods seen in the consoles, and now being directly chased and implemented on PC through things such as direct storage...

And sudenly the PCIe bus has a *whole* lot more I/O and a ton more moving data on it then it did before, with a good amount more going to and from the GPU as the GPU now has both direct pathing to storage, and the CPU has direct pathing to the VRAM (SAM/RBAR). The whole idea (broadly) will be to take as much of the "system" out of the middle and let the GPU and SSD and RAM all work together direct. All over PCIe.

I think the 4.0 bandwidth will probably pay off, and I think Intel will have 5.0 out sooner than latter. Wouldnt be surprised if they both had 5.0 by end of year. I think people on high end 3.0 builds (think 9900k/3090) will be fine in *most* cases, but I think that games in the next few years making good use of the streaming data tech being pushed will see poor performance on such configs.

[Monk]

By the numbers, a 3090 looses a few percent performance when at its limit on 3.0 vs 4.0, not really enough to upgrade for me on a 9900k or to be worth giving up 2 cores for 5600x vs 10700k, though, realistically, if your looking at a 3090, you should have a 5950x/10900k on a fresh build anyway as you clearly have the budget, below a 3090, it's purely storage that makes an argument.

As this is a gaming forum and there is zero real benefit right now of nvme 3 let alone 4 over a sata ssd, it's kind of a mute point.
In the future, yeah, the whole direct access memory and variable bar may shave a few seconds off a load time, but, that's about it.

If this changes in the future, then I'll adjust my views to match, but, I'd put far more value in 2 extra cores given the current prices.

[Illusion of Progress]

引用自 xSOSxHawkens：

Though I agree with most of this, the point you make per your own limitation is:

"...they've always typically offered much more bandwidth than GPUs needed..."

And here is where I think this go around is different.

Indeed, it could, and the future is hard to tell. The storage thing did somewhat skip my mind but I added a bit for it at the end.

Monk pretty much stated what reflects my views on it as well. I suppose I just can't see games NEEDING it any time soon as they'll be restricting themselves to a pretty limited market (that is, needing PCI Express 4.0 and an incredibly fast NVMe drive plus a fast GPU [good luck on that last one in today's market]), whereas even if it does come to pass that in a few years that it's... well, not "needed" but a bit more hurtful not to have, then you'll probably be at the point that the 6 core CPU isn't holding as well as the 8 core one would have.

[GOD RAYS ON ULTRA™]

I would personally go for the intel because amd is way over-priced right now. Currently the i7 is a smoking deal. amd is being stupid with their prices lately. Even the little i5 10400f is a really good deal right now. Since you want overclock you will want the intel i7k for sure.

[dOBER]

I guess it depends on location. In my country both are avaible everywhere. 5600xt cost 338€ and 10700k cost 318€. These 20€ difference doesnt matter while amd has a boxed cooler and intel doesnt. Both cpus are very fast and will last at least 5 years. These 2 cores more will do nearly nothing for gaming only so whatever you prefer buy it.

[r.linder]

In most countries, Intel is cheaper than AMD right now which heavily diminishes the value of AMD since they perform the same as Intel's K SKUs.

Really depends on which system is going to be cheaper at this point or if you need the multi-core performance from Ryzen 9.

[Cuddle Bunny]

引用自 Monk：

Unless you already have the 3080, you won't be building this any time soon anyway, especially if you want a 5600X so might as well wait and see what 11th gen offers.

Will their older cpus all drop in price once 11th gen is released?

[_I_]

引用自 Cuddle Bunny：

引用自 Monk：

Unless you already have the 3080, you won't be building this any time soon anyway, especially if you want a 5600X so might as well wait and see what 11th gen offers.

Will their older cpus all drop in price once 11th gen is released?

from the past, no
or not by much

getting a used cpu could be an option, but most would be non k or from oem for others that have upgraded to something better