PS5 Pro VS PC

[Citizen Cook]

I was wondering how the recently announced PlayStation 5 Professional stacks up against an equivalent gaming PC. Particularly the GPU.
I have an Nvidia 3080 Ti and I think the Pro might have it whooped. What do you guys think?

The PS5 Pro specs:

GPU: RDNA 2 60 compute units, 3840SMs.
Upscaling: PSSR (said to be better than FSR, worse than DLSS)
Ray Tracing hardware that Mark Cerny claims hasn’t been released in any of AMD’s current graphics cards.
CPU: AMD 8-core Zen 2 16 threads, 3.5GHz
RAM: 16GB GDDR6 560GB/s memory bandwidth
Storage: 2 TB NVME 5.5GB/s read
Wi-Fi: Wi-Fi 7
Ports: Two USB-C ports on the front, two USB-A ports on the rear, HDMI 2.1 output, and Ethernet
Price: $699

[Citizen Cook]

Publicado originalmente por Illusion of Progress:

Publicado originalmente por Citizen Cook:

I think a much of those people’s complaints are simply dissatisfaction not with way the games look but with resentment for having to buy new hardware for such meagre visual gains. If the industry were still making PS4 level games and having them run on older hardware at 4K/60 or 1440/120 very few would be complaining.

We are at the point of diminishing returns and more and more people are slowly waking up to that fact and the PS5 has been a big wake-up call for them in console world.
If people don’t care about Ray tracing (many do not) they can keep their current hardware for many years to come thanks to upscalers.

Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily disagree with anything you said here, at least not in entirety. While you use the example of the PlayStation 5 being the final straw that broke the camel's back, things were already close to that with the PlayStation 4 though.

The industry is in... interesting times right now. Projects have gotten so massive in scope with long development times and high costs, and they need to sell record breaking numbers to justify themselves. This was already the case before this generation. The analysts are going to look at sales numbers with a detachment to what "gamers want" because what gamers want is so varied (it's subjective), but sales numbers speak volumes to them, and those will be the driving force they use to pitch project viability to shareholders.

Once a trend comes, if you start developing a massive title to try and be one of the next big things, you're probably already too late. And trying to be the trailblazer for one of those trends is something that happens so seldomly, which is why gaming companies won't take risks as often. Being a Minecraft, a League of Legends, a Fortnight, or whatever isn't something that happens often. And being one of those things you can cash in on yearly with a franchise, like Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed, probably less so. Even many of those long running franchises, and Final Fantasy comes to mind as a personal one, are husks of their former selves now. Yet, they still sell... but barely enough to justify the development of them.

At the same time, despite rising development costs and time frames, pricing has stayed the same (or even gone down), despite inflation. This is why DLC and season passes and micro-transactions have become things.

So gamers expect more, better games, with better visuals, with better performance, and at the same price. It's literally a "something has got to give" scenario. Back in the 1990s and earlier, tech jumps alone just allowed games to be so much more. Diminished returns kicked in long ago, well, well before the PlayStation 5. the PlayStation 6 will release and people will go "but we'd be fine with PlayStation 5 level graphics". Truth is, the vast majority of games don't use the latest level of visuals, so we already have plenty of that. Yet it's often these massive next generation titles that have a pretty sizable part of the public attention, so it's like we're saying one thing, but our actions are showing another.

Many people bought the PS5 expecting a bigger graphical leap. They’ve seen 4 years of cross gen. I think when the PS6 releases a very large number of gamers simply won’t upgrade because they’ll know that cross gen will continue for years to come and the console will probably cost 600-700.
I think the only sensible solution for the state that the gaming industry is in is to scale back productions. They need to reset everyone’s expectations because it really isn’t sustainable. Even when a game does sell it still leads to stagnation because publishers become more and more risk adverse.
For me, AA is the sweet spot. Something like Plague Tale looks incredible but doesn’t break the bank. We can still have great looking games, but they don’t need to be massive sprawling grind-a-thons. Just ask Ubisoft how that’s working out for them.

[Bad 💀 Motha]

Well the problem was also that many places online were bumping up the prices of PS4 and PS4 PRO during the release of PS5.

Or those who could get a PS5 (without BR drive) it made more sense to buy that then to pay nearly the same prices for a new in the box PS4 PRO. It was definitely about timing and if you waited to get a PS4 or needed a new one, the prices were going up, not down. I know some people who opted for PS4 PRO w/ 1TB SSD because for around $300 and t had the BR drive. Where as the PS5 witha BR drive was like $500+ at the time of release

[Citizen Cook]

Publicado originalmente por Bad 💀 Motha:

Well the problem was also that many places online were bumping up the prices of PS4 and PS4 PRO during the release of PS5.

Or those who could get a PS5 (without BR drive) it made more sense to buy that then to pay nearly the same prices for a new in the box PS4 PRO. It was definitely about timing and if you waited to get a PS4 or needed a new one, the prices were going up, not down. I know some people who opted for PS4 PRO w/ 1TB SSD because for around $300 and t had the BR drive. Where as the PS5 witha BR drive was like $500+ at the time of release

Man, pricing is rough. I literally feel like i’m being priced out of PC gaming by Nvidia.
I game at 4K. I bought the 1080 Ti and then the 3080 Ti.
I was intending to buy the 4080 until i saw the price.
I can’t see the 5080 being priced any more reasonable than the 4080 was thanks to Nvidia’s near total market dominance.

[SHREDDER]

That why you should had got a1440p monitor like i did i n2016 that i still have nit now instead of 4k. 4k is lot more demanding. But since november 2021 that i got 6700xt untl now i run all games maxed 1440p 60 6ps. I will only get 4k when this monitor dies but i will not change the graphics card at the same time when this hapens.

[76561199559798421]

#1 major issues with consoles is lack of Games Dynamic.

#2 issues is consoles don't offer things beyond the limited game Libary.

#3 Pc's are not only for games, but Photo editing, 3d editing, Music editing, Movie Making, Word Processing, Spreadsheets, VoIP calls, Online Shopping, and Even Forum Posting.

You would have a extremely difficult time trying to leave a comment on the Steam forums with a PS5

[_I_]

the xbox one/series, and ps4/5 have capable browsers that you can use to post on steam forums

you can also use usb k/m in the consoles for browsing and some games

[76561199559798421]

still garbage i could see maybe buying a ps5 for 300 dollars , but the price of the games make even that not the best of choices, its also 4-5 years old . I think ps5 came out in 2020 and hit the market meaning they designed it in 2018 and the hardware was purchased in 2019ish assembled and then sold in 2020.

[Bad 💀 Motha]

Publicado originalmente por Citizen Cook:

Publicado originalmente por Bad 💀 Motha:

Well the problem was also that many places online were bumping up the prices of PS4 and PS4 PRO during the release of PS5.

Or those who could get a PS5 (without BR drive) it made more sense to buy that then to pay nearly the same prices for a new in the box PS4 PRO. It was definitely about timing and if you waited to get a PS4 or needed a new one, the prices were going up, not down. I know some people who opted for PS4 PRO w/ 1TB SSD because for around $300 and t had the BR drive. Where as the PS5 witha BR drive was like $500+ at the time of release

Man, pricing is rough. I literally feel like i’m being priced out of PC gaming by Nvidia.
I game at 4K. I bought the 1080 Ti and then the 3080 Ti.
I was intending to buy the 4080 until i saw the price.
I can see the 5080 being priced and more reasonable than the 4080 was thanks to Nvidia’s near total market dominance.

Then don't game at 4K. Game at 1440p 144+Hz it's way better

[C1REX]

Publicado originalmente por Bad 💀 Motha:

Publicado originalmente por Citizen Cook:

Man, pricing is rough. I literally feel like i’m being priced out of PC gaming by Nvidia.
I game at 4K. I bought the 1080 Ti and then the 3080 Ti.
I was intending to buy the 4080 until i saw the price.
I can see the 5080 being priced and more reasonable than the 4080 was thanks to Nvidia’s near total market dominance.

Then don't game at 4K. Game at 1440p 144+Hz it's way better

Better or not it’s not easier/cheaper to run than 4K60 and in some cases it’s not even possible due to CPU limitations.

[Bad 💀 Motha]

As long as the CPU can handle things smoothly when that GPU is pushed to the max. CPU don't really have anything to do with 1440p vs 2160p gameplay. Sure it can to a point, if the CPU just isn't good enough for a certain game sure.

1440p/144 is a hell of alot less strain on CPU and GPU compared to 4K anything.

Why anyone would run 4K unless you have a 4080 / 4090 is beyond me. In modern games that's what you will need.

1440p/240Hz can run fine on a 12th Gen i5 + 3080 / 3080 Ti

What's that you say... 4K TVs are cheap and that's why you're running 4K. So what, that 4K TV can also do 1080p and 1440p if you need to run a certain game that way for an FPS gain

[C1REX]

Publicado originalmente por Bad 💀 Motha:

Why anyone would run 4K unless you have a 4080 / 4090 is beyond me. In modern games that's what you will need.

Older games are now quite easy to run at 4K even on a lower end.
For the newest games you have DLSS/FSR.
4K + DLSS will still look better than native 1440p. Same as 1440p + DLSS will look better than native 960p it's upscaled from.

[Bad 💀 Motha]

F all that... I rather run 1440p cause of high refresh panels and GSync.

I also rather run at 1440p and render up. Like in RDR2 I set at 1440p and render at 2.5X scale. That's much more crisp then 4K

DLSS just lowering the quality and making everything look like muddy dog crap

[SHREDDER]

Publicado originalmente por Everyone is Invited:

#1 major issues with consoles is lack of Games Dynamic.

#2 issues is consoles don't offer things beyond the limited game Libary.

#3 Pc's are not only for games, but Photo editing, 3d editing, Music editing, Movie Making, Word Processing, Spreadsheets, VoIP calls, Online Shopping, and Even Forum Posting.

You would have a extremely difficult time trying to leave a comment on the Steam forums with a PS5

you mean internet. Because emails,forum, online shopping, watching movies and series reading news online e,t,c are things that we do daily on pc on the internet. Games is just one of the 1000 things that a pc can do. That why even a very old pc that cant play any new games is still better than all consoles because it can do many of the things i mentioned that a console can not and will never do.

[Bad 💀 Motha]

Publicado originalmente por SHREDDER:

Publicado originalmente por Everyone is Invited:

#1 major issues with consoles is lack of Games Dynamic.

#2 issues is consoles don't offer things beyond the limited game Libary.

#3 Pc's are not only for games, but Photo editing, 3d editing, Music editing, Movie Making, Word Processing, Spreadsheets, VoIP calls, Online Shopping, and Even Forum Posting.

You would have a extremely difficult time trying to leave a comment on the Steam forums with a PS5

you mean internet. Because emails,forum, online shopping, watching movies and series reading news online e,t,c are things that we do daily on pc on the internet. Games is just one of the 1000 things that a pc can do. That why even a very old pc that cant play any new games is still better than all consoles because it can do many of the things i mentioned that a console can not and will never do.

You do realize you can web browse, watch videos, stream movies, read and write email and personal messaging on modern Consoles Phones and Tablets right? That's the easy part. The hard part is running the games well enough.

Consoles have a set hardware config for the most part so it's much easier to make a game around that in general. With PC games it can differ based on OS support and also they have to generally include settings so the game graphics can be scaled and/or adjusted.

Some games are just too hefty for current consoles still or have to run atb30 fps due to Consoles still being weak.

Pretty sure Kingdom Come 2 and STALKER 2 will end up running at 30 FPS on Consoles because of their limitations. Either that or they'll have to include a setting like Wukong does where you ca pick Graphics Quality vs Graphics Performance.

[Illusion of Progress]

Publicado originalmente por Citizen Cook:

Many people bought the PS5 expecting a bigger graphical leap. They’ve seen 4 years of cross gen. I think when the PS6 releases a very large number of gamers simply won’t upgrade because they’ll know that cross gen will continue for years to come and the console will probably cost 600-700.
I think the only sensible solution for the state that the gaming industry is in is to scale back productions. They need to reset everyone’s expectations because it really isn’t sustainable. Even when a game does sell it still leads to stagnation because publishers become more and more risk adverse.
For me, AA is the sweet spot. Something like Plague Tale looks incredible but doesn’t break the bank. We can still have great looking games, but they don’t need to be massive sprawling grind-a-thons. Just ask Ubisoft how that’s working out for them.

I'm no longer a console gamer (the PlayStation 2 was the last time I was in it, if that gives you an idea), but the current generation launch seemed strange to me as an outside observer.

With the pandemic going on, you had console availability that was low and pricing that was high (sounds familiar from the PC side where it was the same, but worse, for graphics cards since they also head the cryptocurrency market impacting them). I might be totally wrong on this since I haven't looked at sales numbers over the years (I only know the PlayStation 5 has a decent install base now), but I had the impression the generation was treated as though it had a delayed start due to low install base.

This is on top of the fact that hardware leaps are slowing and the previous consoles retained the larger install base for a while, so it was probably easier to make make games that ran on both, slowly on the older consoles and more performant on the newer ones, as opposed to truly better ones that needed the newer consoles.

With development cycles being so long, this probably added to it as well.