What did my ISP do to my router

[Preacher]

Hello:


I thought I'd see what you guys think my ISP did at install before I contact them. Here is the story for your perusal.

I have been wanting to login to my router settings and look around. However, I've exhausted every single password/username combo I could think of, even looking at the list of default logins for my router (TP Link Archer AX10) which would just be admin/admin. My ISP must have changed the password upon install. I would simply just reset the router but they installed it weird and am unsure if I could safely reset it without needing their help.

On the day of install, they installed their own modem connecting to the fiber optic. I already had the ethernet cable set up and was going to set up the router myself, but they went ahead. They powered the modem through the ethernet cable, somehow. To make it easy to visualize, this is the setup:

Modem -(ethernet cable)- box that plugs into the wall outlet -(ethernet cable)- router's OUTPUT ethernet port.

They plugged into the OUTPUT port and taped off the input. Why? This is the only thing putting me off from resetting the router. What did they do weird? Did they change any settings in the router to make this work?

TLDR: ISP purposely installed connection from modem into output port, and can I reset the router safely without outside help.

Anyway, thanks for any advice/knowledge.

[smokerob79]

Originally posted by MD:

Password should be the wifi passkey?

never.....never has been never will be......

[skOsH♥]

Originally posted by Electric Cupcake:

When trying to log on, are you entering the numeric address in the browser bar, or a text url?

DNS settings can mess with that.

I am in this topic with the same problem. What do I need to change?

Edit: I've tried 192.168.0.1, 192.168.1.1, 192.168.0.254, and literally all the others listed on the internet, and one of them should work, but they don't.

[AmaiAmai]

Originally posted by skOsH:

Originally posted by Electric Cupcake:

When trying to log on, are you entering the numeric address in the browser bar, or a text url?

DNS settings can mess with that.

I am in this topic with the same problem. What do I need to change?

Edit: I've tried 192.168.0.1, 192.168.1.1, 192.168.0.254, and literally all the others listed on the internet, and one of them should work, but they don't.

No idea what you mean, but if you mean the router's address, it should be listed as the DEFAULT GATEWAY address in Windows when you use the "ipconfig" command in the terminal / command line.

Those addresses are not always used by ISPs on their equipment. You can find it by using the IPCONFIG command in the terminal and you should see the IPv4 & IPv6 of you nearest gateway (router).

If a router is behind another router, then you will have to connect to said router (Router #1 you actually access) directly, then check it's status page or use the same tool directly connected to the router that has internet access.

[Pocahawtness]

Originally posted by skOsH:

Originally posted by Electric Cupcake:

When trying to log on, are you entering the numeric address in the browser bar, or a text url?

DNS settings can mess with that.

I am in this topic with the same problem. What do I need to change?

Edit: I've tried 192.168.0.1, 192.168.1.1, 192.168.0.254, and literally all the others listed on the internet, and one of them should work, but they don't.

These days, some routers come up with some really weird numbers. This is a security measure to avoid using the typical defaults. It's best to use the text name, such as http://router.asus.com

[skOsH♥]

Originally posted by AmaiAmai:

Originally posted by skOsH:

I am in this topic with the same problem. What do I need to change?

Edit: I've tried 192.168.0.1, 192.168.1.1, 192.168.0.254, and literally all the others listed on the internet, and one of them should work, but they don't.

No idea what you mean, but if you mean the router's address, it should be listed as the DEFAULT GATEWAY address in Windows when you use the "ipconfig" command in the terminal / command line.

Those addresses are not always used by ISPs on their equipment. You can find it by using the IPCONFIG command in the terminal and you should see the IPv4 & IPv6 of you nearest gateway (router).

If a router is behind another router, then you will have to connect to said router (Router #1 you actually access) directly, then check it's status page or use the same tool directly connected to the router that has internet access.

Oh my goodness. Damn...I totally forgot about that. I'm an idiot sorry

[Vince ✟]

Originally posted by smokerob79:

Originally posted by MD:

Password should be the wifi passkey?

never.....never has been never will be......

I linked it last page. It is standard on several brands.

[_I_]

use ipconfig /all to see what the gateway/dhcp server name is
thats the router ip

[Preacher]

Originally posted by Electric Cupcake:

When trying to log on, are you entering the numeric address in the browser bar, or a text url?

DNS settings can mess with that.

the numeric address i get my ipconfig cmd.

Originally posted by Pocahawtness:

Originally posted by Preacher:

.

What do you mean, Input Port and Output Port? There is a Wan and four LAN ports on the router. The Wan is blue, the others are yellow. Surely they didn't tape over four ports? Are you sure it is an AX10?

I remember one ISP I had and it had a special router that had an unused port on the router that was sometimes taped over to stop customers getting confused! Is it possible that is what you have?

I would not reset the router if I were you. It is very possible that that it has your account username and password in it. If you reset it, then you might have to phone up the ISP to get that info.

Some ISP's don't like you to fiddle with the settings and may refuse to tell you. Insisting rather to come out and do the work for you.

I may have mis-labeled them, but they taped off the blue port which I assumed was the input. It's labeled WAN. It is indeed a AX10.

I guess I will contact them to be sure, I don't like not having access to something I purchased myself.

Thanks for the knowledge, _I_, Pocahatness, and everyone else.

[_I_]

if the modem is plugged into the lan ports on the router, they disabled the dhcp and turned the router into as switch/ap

reset it to defaults, and plug it into the wan port (hold its reset button for 30sec)
then log into the router, and change its login password write it down and stick to to the router

and disable wan/remote access to its config, so only those connecting to it on lan/wifi can config it

then setup its wifi as needed

[Sigma957]

Why not buy your own modem and wi-fi router? That's what I did. Just get a modem that is compatible with the bandwidth you're paying for. If you're with Spectrum base speed is now 600 instead of 300 megabits per/ second for modems. Then run the LAN cable from the modem into one of the ethernet ports on the wi-fi router and then from the router to your PC. All in one modem/routers are trouble when part of it stops working. Keep them separated.

[_I_]

most isps will not sell modems, they 'rent' them to you and add it on to the service fee

but they do give you a new one every few years

buying a router is still the best thing you can do to protect your network
the op has his own router, but the isp tech configured it as a switch/ap not router

[Preacher]

Originally posted by _I_:

most isps will not sell modems, they 'rent' them to you and add it on to the service fee

but they do give you a new one every few years

buying a router is still the best thing you can do to protect your network
the op has his own router, but the isp tech configured it as a switch/ap not router

You are correct, I contacted my ISP first and the technician who likely did it responded (some parts removed):

I designed the FTTH to have the ONU's do all the actual routing on the internal network, there is technically no modem in fiber, only a hand-off.
The ONU's are powered strictly with PoE, that is why it is plugged into an injector. They have no direct DC inlet.

I tape off the WAN ports so that nothing is accidentally plugged into them.
On your router, which is likely at [a 192 address] (Most likely Password: [redacted]) you will find that DHCP has been disabled.
Not using the WAN port, prevents what is called Double NAT, or double translation, which can cause some issues, and ultimately is the reason people have to reboot routers.
So essentially, your "Router" currently is a wireless capable switch, it isn't actually routing. This makes a huge difference especially if you were to have VOIP phone. Double Natting VOIP can cause all sorts of weird issues, usually one way audio.

If you were to leave DHCP on and then use a LAN port you will have mismatched gateways. Some will go to the Nano, [192 address] some will go to the TP-Link Router at [different 192 address].
Using the LAN, the TPlink would not have internet in that instance, so half your devices would not work, it all depends on which DHCP server grabs them.

So, ultimately, to answer your question, yes, you can certainly reset your router, but you will need to move the ethernet cable to the WAN port. You will also be double natted, which should you require
any port forwards, you will need to send them to us, so I can enable them for you, you will then need to forward your own router to bypass the double nat.

Hopefully this answers your questions please feel free to reach out if you have more,

Thanks much!

I will need to do some researching to figure all that he means, but what do you guys think of this?

[Preacher]

I watched a few videos on what he means and I have a vague understanding of DHCP and double natting and why it is an issue. Looks the POE has nothing to do with the networking.

The 192 address he gave me and the pw shows DHCP off, like he says. However, that's not the ip address I get from ipconfig which is the standard 192.168.1.1. The .1.1 address takes me to UISP, not TP-Link like the address he gave me. On the tp-link address, it shows nothing is connected. This confirms my router is a switch, right? So, is the ISP modem the router instead?

And if the modem is the router, double nat would occur if my tp link had DHCP on, correct? It is basically passing through the tplink to their modem/router?

If I reset my router, the DHCP would be on and I'd need to plug into WAN. Can I adjust settings then de-activate DHCP, then plug back into LAN and avoid double nat?

Last question, is port forwarding completely out of the question for me, since the modem is in the ISP's control?

[Electric Cupcake]

Modems don't usually control ports, unless it's a combo device.

You might want to change the router's DNS to Cloudflare instead of the ISP's defaul.

[_I_]

unplug the router from the modem
log into the router with the ip he gave you

use its admin page to reset it to defaults, and let it reboot

change the dns servers to 1.1.1.1 (cloudfare), 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 (google)
they are faster and another step to prevent the isp from tracking sites you visit
also change the modems lan ip to 195.168.2.1, so its different from the modem
(you will need to reboot, or unplug and plug in the lan cable again on all devices for new lan ip changes to take effect)

then plug the modem into the routers wan/internet port


port forwarding is only needed if you are hosting games where other connect to your internet ip

if you need to do that, and forward ports
log into the modem 192.168.1.1, and change it to bridge mode, then it will pass the internet ip to your router, and work strictly as a modem
then when you need to forward ports, the router already passes all incoming traffic to your router