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Showing 16-27 of 27 comments
r.linder Dec 3, 2024 @ 10:14am 
Originally posted by smokerob79:
Intel lost it....they said for years quad CPU's were all we needed, when it was really all they wanted to make, selling us old tech over and over again.....when you keep foundries in house this will happen....TSMC will never have this problem as everyone is paying to upgrade their fab works for better production runs.....meaning AMD can get production done Intel can only dream of like being on 7nm when intel was still making garbage on 14nm......

AMD keeps gaining market share in everything.....on a side note they are even up to 37% of the CPU's used in steaming pile's own hardware survey....but real world there is no real reason to ever buy Intel garbage again.....they are behind and cant not beat AMD without being 3 times the power draw for at best a 10% increase in limited work loads.....they are taking massive gains in servers with the EPIC CPU's as well.....also saw a up take in GPU use......

so lets ask the real question.....go you still think intel is worth buying???.....for me its a no, i can not support the company any more.....
The thing about TSMC 7nm and Intel 14nm++ was that there was only really a 2nm difference between them in terms of actual density, the advertised name is not an actual measurement of anything on the process, it's just a name. The naming convention stopped being accurate a long time ago, manufacturers just name it whatever they want because they're buzzwords, 7nm, 6nm, 5nm, it all sells when you get lower and lower numbers every year. But no part of it is actually what the process name suggests.

There is nothing that actually says that TSMC 7nm was twice as dense as Intel's 14nm++, not even close. The width of TSMC 7nm was 22nm, while Intel 14nm++ was 24nm. TSMC 7 still fit a lot more transistors, but nowhere near double the amount that 14nm was capable of, and it was comparable to the density that Intel's 10nm mobile CPUs had. So even if Intel has a higher process number at all times, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're actually losing by much or at all in terms of actual transistor density.

https://www.techpowerup.com/272489/intel-14-nm-node-compared-to-tsmcs-7-nm-node-using-scanning-electron-microscope
De Hollandse Ezel Dec 3, 2024 @ 10:25am 
Originally posted by smokerob79:
Intel lost it....they said for years quad CPU's were all we needed, when it was really all they wanted to make, selling us old tech over and over again.....when you keep foundries in house this will happen....TSMC will never have this problem as everyone is paying to upgrade their fab works for better production runs.....meaning AMD can get production done Intel can only dream of like being on 7nm when intel was still making garbage on 14nm......

AMD keeps gaining market share in everything.....on a side note they are even up to 37% of the CPU's used in steaming pile's own hardware survey....but real world there is no real reason to ever buy Intel garbage again.....they are behind and cant not beat AMD without being 3 times the power draw for at best a 10% increase in limited work loads.....they are taking massive gains in servers with the EPIC CPU's as well.....also saw a up take in GPU use......

so lets ask the real question.....go you still think intel is worth buying???.....for me its a no, i can not support the company any more.....

NOTHING wrong with keeping factories in house.,.. it was intels strenght and would be again.. if stupid board would not now have fired the ceo.

the plan WAS to regain factory lead... that was why they sold so many assets 4 years ago.. and why they accepted 7 lean years.. of which only 4 have passed...

so basicly they now enter the valley of death as expected.. before payof of this gamble comes.. and just as they equal TSMC's production and are about to overtake them...

and BOOM in move idiotic board members firing the ceo... hitting the brake on research force cashing in in excisting tech.. meaning all goes to waste cause of shortsightedness for short term gains..

sure one could argue intel COULD also have gone another route.. intel could have instead bet all on fabs.. could have sold those and invested all that money instead in process development... but they did not... and the course is plotted... to chance it now now the warchest is empty and your already past halfway and on track getting fab lead again..
is IDIOTIC
Last edited by De Hollandse Ezel; Dec 3, 2024 @ 10:27am
r.linder Dec 3, 2024 @ 10:32am 
Pat Gelsinger was good at engineering, not so much leading a massive corporation. This was the dude that kept saying that AMD was in the rearview mirror while AMD was absolutely creaming Intel. Same guy that let the issues with Raptor Lake go unheard of when it should've been announced by Intel as soon as they found out about it. If he had taken accountability for Intel's actions and showed at least some care for consumers, then their stocks wouldn't have fallen so much.
Last edited by r.linder; Dec 3, 2024 @ 10:33am
De Hollandse Ezel Dec 3, 2024 @ 10:50am 
Originally posted by r.linder:
Pat Gelsinger was good at engineering, not so much leading a massive corporation. This was the dude that kept saying that AMD was in the rearview mirror while AMD was absolutely creaming Intel. Same guy that let the issues with Raptor Lake go unheard of when it should've been announced by Intel as soon as they found out about it. If he had taken accountability for Intel's actions and showed at least some care for consumers, then their stocks wouldn't have fallen so much.

stock price was irrelevant...

all that mattered was cash reserves.. and if they kept up with time table for those fabs...
which they were..

if you get 3 years lead in fabs again.. you automaticly will have the best chips that charge the largest margin.. etc etc etc...

just as how if you lag behind in fabs the reverse happend...

all that happend was in line with the 7 year plan to regain the fabrication lead.... which now is squandered by firing him.

if anything before this news I was hungry looking at that intel stock and planning to buy all I could for this low price I would have betted it would go waaaay up in a few years..
but now they fired the man with vision.. cause they want dividents right now.... to stupid to wait till the harvest is ripe.. nope all doomed..

granted they might hire somebody better at PR .. but selling product was for this moment it time.. just an afterthought... basicly to limit the losses... it was not ment to make profit at this time...
Last edited by De Hollandse Ezel; Dec 3, 2024 @ 10:55am
Originally posted by Tonepoet:
I do not know much about how the man ran the company, but Intel knew their raptor lake parts were problematic before they even went out to market, sold them anyway and just hoped nobody would notice. Customers just can't trust a leader whom lets something like that happen under his watch.

R.I.P. Andy Grove. You actually knew how to treat your customers right[www.businessinsider.com] by issuing an active recall for known faulty product.
I'm surprised at all the people who seem to dislike him, but this (knowing Raptor Lake was problematic and doing nothing about it) is the one thing he does warrant criticism for. If, that is, the decision was his solely to make, which we don't know.

And wasn't the second example also only done after some intense pressure too? I might be wrong, but I've oft heard it claimed that they gave in only after they were pressured to (which, granted, is still more than they did here with Raptor Lake). It's easy to make a good consumer-favored quote after the fact, whether or not it originally was.

Politicians are good for this too; voting against something, and then when it wins despite that, claiming to their constituents that they made it happen for them. It's disgusting.
Originally posted by Tonepoet:
That's the sort of leadership we need back at Intel. Not this whole penny-pinching corporate executive scumlord garbage.
Unfortunately, that's big business at the high level. If it ever favors consumers, it's not out of altruism, but more out of coincidence since it needs to still happen to grow or compete. Once in a dominant position, or once a long big name, companies are expected to grow, grow, grow for shareholders.
The_Abortionator Dec 4, 2024 @ 4:53pm 
Originally posted by Outcast82:
very bad news for everyone.

intel has bet everything on ragaining the fabrication crown.

it was known before the margin for error was slim it was an win high or go bust sceme..

it is now 4 years in that 7 year process and we are just in the valley of dead..basicly when funds dry up and gains of the investment are yet some way away..

sure intel could have went another route ditched its fabs and went full on in design.. but it d
cant be said if that was wiser and it did not..

to now kick out your ceo and alter course is insanity.. the low gains and losses were perfectly expected in the 7 year plan back to fabrucation crown..

short sighted stockholders kill of intel by this firing.

if they wanted another course they should have done so 4 years ago.. but now the course is set.. and to alter now is insanity..

this means that instead of intel comingback in 2028.. the short sighted board just doomed intel completely.


uhhh, none of what you said makes sense. We aren't 4 years into a 7 year anything.

Intel sat on their hands selling us quad cores for 11 years with minimal gains past sandybridge and got caught with their pants down.

It takes 5~6 years to have a new CPU idea and then sell said CPU. Intel is one year past that because they also wanted to make their own chips and the hand sitting screwed that up making things worse.

The only 7 year anything is from the point Ryzen blitz'd them till now.
Philco7a Dec 4, 2024 @ 8:29pm 
Intel is sitting on a gold mine. They used to make their own motherboards and cpu's and a Federal Court made them stop doing that.
Board Manufacturers started putting wrong settings in BIOS cooking intel's fastest cpu's/ i9's.
Intel can bankrupt those board manufacturers right now with the right attorneys.
But they won't because the State Department does not want Taiwan going bankrupt.
So intel goes bankrupt. lmao
The_Abortionator Dec 5, 2024 @ 3:18am 
Originally posted by Philco7a:
Intel is sitting on a gold mine. They used to make their own motherboards and cpu's and a Federal Court made them stop doing that.
Board Manufacturers started putting wrong settings in BIOS cooking intel's fastest cpu's/ i9's.
Intel can bankrupt those board manufacturers right now with the right attorneys.
But they won't because the State Department does not want Taiwan going bankrupt.
So intel goes bankrupt. lmao


Everything you said was just made up by you.

A federal court had literally NOTHING to do with Intel not making motherboards anymore and Intel STILL MAKES their own CPUs.

No IDEA where you came up with that.

Second, the only generation that saw settings not endorsed by Intel was the 8000 CPUs literally before the first consumer I9.

After that going beyond "spec" was Intel's official stance. Infact ALL of Intel's own benchmarks are done going beyond "spec".

You think ANY of their advertised performance is done at "stock" settings?

If Intel actually wanted to have their official numbers be the real numbers they would have enforced them but they never did. Period.

Intel has no legal case against board partners. Period.

Why did you spend so much time writing this lie up?
Originally posted by The_Abortionator:
Originally posted by Outcast82:
very bad news for everyone.

intel has bet everything on ragaining the fabrication crown.

it was known before the margin for error was slim it was an win high or go bust sceme..

it is now 4 years in that 7 year process and we are just in the valley of dead..basicly when funds dry up and gains of the investment are yet some way away..

sure intel could have went another route ditched its fabs and went full on in design.. but it d
cant be said if that was wiser and it did not..

to now kick out your ceo and alter course is insanity.. the low gains and losses were perfectly expected in the 7 year plan back to fabrucation crown..

short sighted stockholders kill of intel by this firing.

if they wanted another course they should have done so 4 years ago.. but now the course is set.. and to alter now is insanity..

this means that instead of intel comingback in 2028.. the short sighted board just doomed intel completely.


uhhh, none of what you said makes sense. We aren't 4 years into a 7 year anything.

Intel sat on their hands selling us quad cores for 11 years with minimal gains past sandybridge and got caught with their pants down.

It takes 5~6 years to have a new CPU idea and then sell said CPU. Intel is one year past that because they also wanted to make their own chips and the hand sitting screwed that up making things worse.

The only 7 year anything is from the point Ryzen blitz'd them till now.

you dont get it.. cause your uninformed

the products intel has been releleasing last 4 years are irrelvant.

basicly in 2021 they solds assets.. lay off staff.. and would do less releases and would let what was released being made by tsmc..

all would be invested to imptive their manufacturing tech at blazing speed.
instead of normal 1.5 years per step they would do 8 months per step and skip production phase (backtoback research at max speed and funding)

so we would have gotten an intel pullinh off an ryzen.. coming back out of nothing slamming amd back in ita pkace around 2023 with until than muddling to keep the hose from leaking to much cash..

the board now ending that roadmap is utterly stupid basucly they invested everything in a 7 year research project and now cancel it 4 years it.. utterly stupid.
Pocahawtness Dec 5, 2024 @ 6:06am 
Originally posted by Outcast82:
Originally posted by The_Abortionator:


uhhh, none of what you said makes sense. We aren't 4 years into a 7 year anything.

Intel sat on their hands selling us quad cores for 11 years with minimal gains past sandybridge and got caught with their pants down.

It takes 5~6 years to have a new CPU idea and then sell said CPU. Intel is one year past that because they also wanted to make their own chips and the hand sitting screwed that up making things worse.

The only 7 year anything is from the point Ryzen blitz'd them till now.

you dont get it.. cause your uninformed

the products intel has been releleasing last 4 years are irrelvant.

basicly in 2021 they solds assets.. lay off staff.. and would do less releases and would let what was released being made by tsmc..

all would be invested to imptive their manufacturing tech at blazing speed.
instead of normal 1.5 years per step they would do 8 months per step and skip production phase (backtoback research at max speed and funding)

so we would have gotten an intel pullinh off an ryzen.. coming back out of nothing slamming amd back in ita pkace around 2023 with until than muddling to keep the hose from leaking to much cash..

the board now ending that roadmap is utterly stupid basucly they invested everything in a 7 year research project and now cancel it 4 years it.. utterly stupid.


The last four years of products were highly relevant.

They missed out on many profitable markets and even failed to keep pace with their manufacturing. They embarked on a planned restructure, and to pay for that they were reducing staff and selling off assets. That was planned. What was not planned was the problems they had with the 13th and 14th gen processors and that they had to hand manufacture of the 15th gen to external fabricators. The dismal failure of the 15th gen was the final straw. So, yes, the products over the past four years were very relevant.
Last edited by Pocahawtness; Dec 5, 2024 @ 6:06am
Philco7a Dec 5, 2024 @ 10:49am 
Originally posted by The_Abortionator:

A federal court had literally NOTHING to do with Intel not making motherboards anymore and Intel STILL MAKES their own CPUs.

No IDEA where you came up with that.

That Federal Government ruling is likely older than you. Intel used to make its own motherboards and cpu's and was forced to stop.
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/1998/06/ftc-intel-abuses-its-monopoly-power-violation-federal-law
Last edited by Philco7a; Dec 5, 2024 @ 10:54am
The_Abortionator Dec 5, 2024 @ 2:41pm 
Originally posted by Philco7a:
Originally posted by The_Abortionator:

A federal court had literally NOTHING to do with Intel not making motherboards anymore and Intel STILL MAKES their own CPUs.

No IDEA where you came up with that.

That Federal Government ruling is likely older than you. Intel used to make its own motherboards and cpu's and was forced to stop.
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/1998/06/ftc-intel-abuses-its-monopoly-power-violation-federal-law


First off no the ruling isnt older than me.

Second. Just, wow.

Like, OMG you can't be serious with this. You are so BLINDLY CONFIDENT in your nonsense that you didn't even bother READING what you posted.

As a matter of fact there has NEVER been ANY ruling forcing Intel to stop making motherboards or CPUs.

Infact if you were old enough you'd remember that Intel made their own motherboards through Haswell which means they continued making boards for 15 YEARS AFTER THE SETTLEMENT!

As for CPUs? THEY NEVER STOPPED!

Intel is STILL MAKING THEIR OWN CPUS TO THIS DAY!

Why are you like this?
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Date Posted: Dec 2, 2024 @ 7:27pm
Posts: 27