Iggy Wolf Nov 23, 2024 @ 6:47pm
Why are people mocked for expecting the best performance on the best GPUs?
I don't understand why we justify games being demanding or unoptimized if they struggle to run even with top of the line hardware. You get so many instances of people in forums telling others to "upgrade your potato", even when a game in question ALREADY pushes the limits of the best GPUs on the market NOT because they're demanding but because they're unoptimized crap, and yet the ones with better cards are still mocked for it.

When you get games now, where people complain that their 4090 can't even do 60 FPS at 4K with DLSS Quality, then yeah, people are going to be rightfully pissed. Telling them that they SHOULDN'T expect top of the line performance for a top of the line card is ridiculous.

They paid as much as they did with the expectation and guarantee that it WILL run every game at the highest resolution. And WITHOUT needing to rely on crutch tech like FG just to get there. I don't remember anyone mocking Titan, 1080 Ti, or 2080 Ti users for expecting the best performance for having the best cards.

That's why they ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ paid $1K-$2K for. It wasn't just so they can jerk off to having the best GPU. It's no surprise then that even mid-range cards aren't delivering on what they cost these days in relation to their performance.

Edit: btw, I should clarify that I personally do not own a 4090, but a 3060 Ti, but still think and stand by the fact that a top end card should achieve better performance in more demanding games. I'm aware of what tinkering a person can do themselves. But perhaps having to tinker just to get playable FPS shouldn't be one of those things.
Last edited by Iggy Wolf; Nov 24, 2024 @ 8:18am
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Showing 1-15 of 24 comments
mtono Nov 23, 2024 @ 10:04pm 
my comment: let them buy their 2000$ gfx boards. i dont see a problem. pc hardware is an interesting thing for people that have the money to buy specific hardware. money doesnt need to be kept from the market/ in a bank. it is a, sometimes expensive, hobby. my hobby is hardware, too. my aim is to save electrcity...my newest thing is a monitor with 9 watts/iiyama FHD/ 24 zoll.
what i want to say is, that there is a lot ways to use and buy hardware. do you know what i mean?
i dont want to be offensive. i am sorry!

cu
The Grin Nov 24, 2024 @ 1:50am 
Here are 2 keywords:

IGNORANCE - STUPIDITY.

You don't need to go think far to understand such things.

I have seen tons of people complaining that their RTX 40XX series can't handle a game in 4K blablabla...
I have a 3080 10 GB and I handle game better than most of them usually.
You want to know why ? I am not searching for a "Beast Pc of Hell" and maybe I don't set expectations so high ?

I have my RTX 3080 10 GB, my Ryzen 7 5800X , my 36 GB Ram, my SSD and my HDD AND my fairly old HD computer screen (AOC from 2018 without HDR).

Guess what ? Basically all games work nearly flawlessly on my pc (and with tons of mods).

Is it enough? Visually spoken it is actually because I see the graphicquality on my screen.

Sure some people with their 1440p/ 4K + RTX 40XX PCs will have more FPS, better visual quality but.......do I need to show an "illusionnal jealousy" just to be part of a flock of sheep that stand together in a complete illusion of competititivity between players who never se each other ?

No.
Last edited by The Grin; Nov 24, 2024 @ 1:51am
C1REX Nov 24, 2024 @ 2:19am 
Originally posted by Iggy Wolf:
What is the context?
Is it STALKER?
Because that game was made by Ukrainian developer escaping war. It’s currently in a broken state.
Guydodge Nov 24, 2024 @ 2:43am 
just because you own a top tier card doesn't mean you can just play games
you have to know how and what to tweak out.most games that are a newer
AAA released are pretty poor on release.this goes for lesser cards as well theres
always a smoking gun take the time and learn your rig it maybe 1 setting
or a combination of settings.and in some cases well a potato's a potato

and for the record minimum req are low setting targeted at 30fps
and recommended are medium to high settings targeted at 60fps
people seem to ignore this and just to be real 30fps is a horrid experience.
use this as a rule of thumb and you'll know where you stand.

so rather than complaining they need to learn how to use what they
have and also know your rigs limitations.also do yourself a favor
and never buy a cheap motherboard with upper teir parts your begging
for probs.
Last edited by Guydodge; Nov 24, 2024 @ 2:55am
Guydodge Nov 24, 2024 @ 3:00am 
Originally posted by C1REX:
Originally posted by Iggy Wolf:
What is the context?
Is it STALKER?
Because that game was made by Ukrainian developer escaping war. It’s currently in a broken state.
as i stated about learn your rig there are 2 setting in that game that break performance
im on epic settings in 4k and pulling 100 to 120fps minus a few areas that dipped to the 80- 90s which has to do with cut scenes 99% of the time
Last edited by Guydodge; Nov 24, 2024 @ 3:03am
Soulreaver Nov 24, 2024 @ 3:07am 
A factor is jealousy but another factor is and that one is far more important

Nobody realy knows what's going on in the PC Gaming space.

-We got unoptimized releases
-we got high Vram demands,
-we got very high pricing
-we got GPUs that are too fast for CPUs
-we had a crypto boom that lead to 1-2 GPU generations (that are still the most common GPUs) to be super expensive
-we got DLSS/FSR that some consider valid or better than native and some don't
-we got Frame-Gen and Ray-Tracing that both are still in a "let's see where it goes" state
-we got 2 or 3 intel generations 3 if we include "ultra" that are very problematic and AMD is atm not the obvious alternative for most (or atleast a lot of people)

The Computer Gaming landscape is in a total turmoil of uncertainty.
People just behave accordingly - meaning everybody says whatever they heard somewhere else.
Most people are no super enthusiasts with tens of years of experience and even then a lot of talking points aren't even old enough to have tons of experience in.
Last edited by Soulreaver; Nov 24, 2024 @ 3:13am
Bring on the next Titan - :cozycastondeath: ADA Lovelace RTX 4090Ti

Originally posted by A&A:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/949230/Cities_Skylines_II/

Recommended: RTX 3080..Yikes...
Or its non-Ray equivalent - GTX 1080Ti :csd2smile:
Last edited by Phénomènes Mystiques; Nov 24, 2024 @ 3:19am
ChickenBalls Nov 24, 2024 @ 3:26am 
remember when Nvidia tried to market their $2500-3000 RTX 3090 Ti as a 8K gaming gpu? :lovepoop:
Karl Hungus Nov 24, 2024 @ 4:33am 
You would be surprised as to how many people there are that have deep pockets that can afford beast rigs yet they dont know how to apply basic configurations to achieve the maximum performance from their gear.

Hell when i first got into PC gaming i went for 3 months playing competitive multiplayer games on 60hz because i didint know you had to configure it for 144...
Originally posted by Karl Hungus:
You would be surprised as to how many people there are that have deep pockets that can afford beast rigs yet they dont know how to apply basic configurations to achieve the maximum performance from their gear.

Hell when i first got into PC gaming i went for 3 months playing competitive multiplayer games on 60hz because i didint know you had to configure it for 144...
It gets even worse regarding proper OS stability and maintenance. :csd2smile:
Last edited by Phénomènes Mystiques; Nov 24, 2024 @ 4:44am
Obsessive Power Nov 24, 2024 @ 5:02am 
Some people are elitist with their top of the range hardware. Some won't turn on DLSS or Frame Generation and they absolutely insist on everything on max when dropping some settings will look fine as well. Refusing to try anything they think will degrade the picture quality.

To make it clear, I said 'some'. That does not mean all RTX 4090 users are elitist. Smart, resourceful people optimise their games with the settings and tweaks available to them.
Originally posted by Obsessive Power:
Some people are elitist with their top of the range hardware. Some won't turn on DLSS or Frame Generation and they absolutely insist on everything on max when dropping some settings will look fine as well. Refusing to try anything they think will degrade the picture quality.

To make it clear, I said 'some'. That does not mean all RTX 4090 users are elitist. Smart, resourceful people optimise their games with the settings and tweaks available to them.
I bought this PC not because it was the latest and best, but because I wanted a system to last 7+ years without worrying or needing hardware upgrades - worked out well for me in the long-run 'tis more cost-effective. :csdsmile:
Last edited by Phénomènes Mystiques; Nov 24, 2024 @ 5:07am
Mathius Nov 24, 2024 @ 5:13am 
This is pc gaming. Everyone has a different hardware profile, and everyone loves to gaslight everyone else saying, "I have no problems."

I've used this argument myself.

The truth is, if the game is running ok for me, then obviously there is a version of hardware that supports this game, and you probably aren't running said hardware, but you expect equality because you think your setup is adequate. Maybe it is from a technical spec, but hey, the PS2 was supposed to have some really creative memory solutions for its time, but most studios didn't want to be bothered because the XBox was basically built from spare PC hardware Microsoft found lying around that everyone was familiar with.

The point is, just because your manufacturer says your system meets a benchmark, doesn't mean it's the same as whatever the game supports (or was written for).

A really great example of this is Bethesda's Fallout games. People are losing their mind because they paid a whopping $5 for Fallout 3 and it won't just run on their new "modern" PC.

The game was developed for Windows Vista/XP systems, only supported dual cores and had Windows Live for Gaming (or whatever it was called) deeply embedded in its system.

Now we're 3 or 4 windows removed from that, we have something like 14 core processors available, and people are running curved monitors and they're mad that they have to do some configuring on a 15 year old game because they paid money for it, and Bethesda should be constantly updating and releasing patches because the game is for sale... And it's somehow Steam's fault because that's what GoG would do!

There are also different expectations from people who think "I have no problems" and what that actually means.

Optimization is absolutely horrible because most game devs are unqualified to a certain degree.

Lots of complaints in the industry about people coming from "programming bootcamp" type backgrounds, but even the people going to college are woefully inadequate because of a few reasons:

1. When regarding technology, the textbook is automatically outdated the minute it's published in a lot of cases (yes, I know literal textbooks aren't always a thing now.)

2. It's become a meme at this point that people are Googling answers to pass tests and do actual work they're being paid for at their real job, i.e. they don't understand the code they're using.

3. Lots of people want to run before they walk. I used to be like this when I was in my 20's. Had someone give me access to a MUD's code. I was simply writing quests, but he showed me how to make live edits to test my quests and start programming my own quest scripts (we called them specials at the time, on a programming level we called them functions).

I didn't know C, but that didn't stop me from reverse engineering how another quest worked and making my own. Fortunately I have an analytical, logical mind, and computer logic came easy to me, so it was easy for me to look past what you're seeing in the game and figure out what was really happening via programming logic, but understanding the actual code, or even just the syntax was something I shouldn't have been trying to do without some kind of actual understanding of the programming language in the first place.

It turns out the entire codebase was a hodge podge of people learning how to program in college and writing stuff, and then someone else coming in and adding to it, and then people going back after learning more and deciding there was a better way to do something so they would then rewrite it.... and almost ALL the Abermud public code releases (GNU license) were like this.

When someone actually wrote a code base or engine that was from scratch and (according to him) optimized, nobody actually used it because it was too unfamiliar from the other codebases.

4: At least here in the US, most colleges don't actually offer a "programming" degree of any type, and you're basically getting a generic computer science degree.


Again, we can look to the Bethesda community for examples:

I remember watching an official Bethesda tutorial for the Creation Kit about how to create a dungeon for Skyrim and the narrator pointed out that the meshes they were using didn't quite snap together, so he suggested just shoving a boulder into the hole to cover it. In game, you just see another part of a cavern, but that's a whole extra object being rendered.

Meanwhile you have the community suggesting a fix for disappearing floors in Fallout 4 that totally disables Preculling, which in lamen's terms means not only is it rendering the part of the boulder you see now, it's also rendering the part of the boulder outside of the camera.

In otherwords if you shove a tree all the way down into the mesh to make it look like a bush, the game is still rendering the whole tree because of a "Fix" causing tons of extra memory usage:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/377160/discussions/0/1741090847736306170/

TL;DR: People are ignorant and stupid. (isn't that always the tl;dr?)
Last edited by Mathius; Nov 24, 2024 @ 5:22am
Carlsberg Nov 24, 2024 @ 5:33am 
It seems to me that many buy games that they cannot run, then shop for the hardware they need to run it, not saying they do, just seems like it.

If we didn't buy the latest and greatest because our machines cannot run them, then maybe game developers would take notice, maybe they would learn to make the coding a little tighter, cleaner, more efficient, less resource demanding.

I think developers are lazy nowadays, they behave like the world has unlimited ram, drive space and nothing else to do but tweak badly done software produced by lazy money hungry wannabe's. WE control the market, no buyers, no market. If we didn't buy the unoptimised crap they push out,......

Enthusiasts,.. different breed, they want the ferrari's of the pc world and they will get them regardless.
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Date Posted: Nov 23, 2024 @ 6:47pm
Posts: 24