9800x3d max ram speeds?

[76561199793899658]

what would be the max mhz ram speeds on the best motherboard for it atm.
-
with 4 dimms and with 2 dimms?

and how much performance you loose by going 4 dimms?

I currently have an x99 system with 8x16gb ddr4.
I kind of like to double the specs every new pc..
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so 256gb ram.

as the old intel enthousiast x-platforn is kind of dead.. and treadripper is more of a modern xeon than a replacement for that old enthousiast series that used to sit in between servers and mainstream..

the days of 4 lanes for ram (and having 8 ramslots) in a gaming pc are kind of over.

was the 6950x at 1600 euro at least a 10% faster than the 500 euro mainsteam cpu
plus you did get stuff like usb 3.2, m.2 and ddr4 one or two generations before maibstream got it.
and you got more than double the lanes in the days of sli essential.

thats not today.

so the only way to get 256gb ram is by having 4x64gb now. (or at least 4x48gb as it remains to be seen if any 64gb modules are to be released at all as non ecc)

but well that does need all 4 ramslots as just using 2 would give me 96gb ram which is less than my old pc had and not acceptable..

so.. what is the neth fps loss by going 192gb (4x48gb) vs 96gb (2x48gb) and at what mhz could each of these kits be expected to run?

[r.linder]

You don't need more than 2x16 or 2x32, 6000 MHz CL30 for AM5.

Either way, 2 DIMM is easier to run stable than 4 DIMM, and there might be dummy modules coming to market specifically to deal with EMI in empty slots.

[A&A]

The memory controler on Ryzen 9000 is the same as in 7000
Not only that, but the lithography is also the same.
Like the best RAM kits has 0 problems to 7200MT/s even 8000MT/s but your memory controller just can't do it unless you're about to make some more out of sync mess.

General Ryzen 7000/9000 DDR5 & infinity fabric by Buildzoid

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[76561199793899658]

Originally posted by A&A:

The memory controler on Ryzen 9000 is the same as in 7000
Not only that, but the lithography is also the same.
Like the best RAM kits has 0 problems to 7200MT/s even 8000MT/s but your memory controller just can't do it unless you're about to make some more out of sync mess.

General Ryzen 7000/9000 DDR5 & infinity fabric by Buildzoid
https://youtu.be/Xcn_nvWGj7U?si=bZCVlQ43_kSMKyb_

so.. what are the max speeds?

if the same controller for 2 dimms 6000mhz (6400 if silicon lottery wib)

but for 4 dimms?

[Illusion of Progress]

You're a bit confused on a couple of things.

Threadripper is a not a Xeon counterpart. You're confusing that with Epyc. Threadripper is simply a highly-threaded workstation platform. The same as Intel's old HEDTs.

You're also making comparisons between workstation/HEDT platforms, which have many more RAM channels and DIMMs, to consumer platforms. So whatever time period you thought it would take to double your capacity, now needs doubled again.

But you're making a major mistake to to predict the future based on scaling from today or years ago. Everyone knows scaling has been slowing down/getting harder. So it's your fault if you ignore that and presume they will be higher.

As per your RAM question, you're going to have to make a choice; do you care more about "doubling things for the sake of doubling them", even if it costs you in other areas, or you just go with the best thing for your actual needs?

Do you NEED 256 GB? If so, then you're probably looking at either very slow RAM, Threadripper, or both. Do you not need 256 GB? Your options increase then.

A PC is a tool. You spec it to fulfill the role it needs, not to meet some arbitrary numbers increase after X amount of time. If you're going down that path, you're going to be disappointed, especially as more and more parts are struggling to advance at rates they used to. CPUs, SRAM (cache) on CPUs, GPUs, HDD capacity, RAM, and more has all been slowing. Waking up and acknowledge that will help.

4 DIMMs on DDR5, especially on AM5 but on DDR5 at all, will cost you frequency. That's all there is to it. This isn't like DDR4 and before (which were also on again, off again, having troubles with high capacity/high DIMM counts). Especially if you're looking at capacities measured in triple digits of GB, as you will need four dual rank DIMMs for that (but even four single rank DIMMs will cost you a lot of performance).

The best "capacity while hitting the sweet spot" point for AM5 is 96 GB. This is because you can achieve it with 2x 48 GB dual rank DIMMs. While they are dual rank, it's just two DIMMs, so you can most likely hit the sweet spot (of AM5) of 6,000 MHz. If you want to chase speed more or guarantee you'll hit that point, single rank DIMMs limit you to half that, so 2x 24 GB.

Originally posted by Outcast82:

the days of 4 lanes for ram (and having 8 ramslots) in a gaming pc are kind of over.

They were never here.

The old triple and quad channel platforms were never meant for the mass market or gamers and never had more than margin of error adoption rates among gamers. That's a statistical insignificance that can be ignored and nothing changes. Yes, it was unfortunate that Intel stagnated on four cores for so long and AMD wasn't competing well (but hey, those days are over too) and some people went with HEDT platforms to get more, but "I'm an enthusiast and have money to waste on a hobby I like" is different than "this was a common thing for gaming platforms". Those things (the extra cores and RAM channels/capacity) also never provided worthwhile gaming improvements for the cost anyway, so big deal.

And if you want to approach it from that angle, you can still do it. Threadripper exists.

Originally posted by Outcast82:

so the only way to get 256gb ram is by having 4x64gb now. (or at least 4x48gb as it remains to be seen if any 64gb modules are to be released at all as non ecc)

64 GB DIMMs barely exist. What exists is registered/ECC stuff for the server side. And if you find them, they're going to be speeds like 4,800 MHz.

RAM is not scaling as it used to. Few things are.

[Illusion of Progress]

Originally posted by Outcast82:

so.. what are the max speeds?

if the same controller for 2 dimms 6000mhz (6400 if silicon lottery wib)

but for 4 dimms?

Typically, four DIMMs (depends a bit on luck and if they are single or dual rank) seems to result in the 4,800 MHz to 5,200 MHz window, maybe 5,600 MHz if it's single rank and/or you're lucky.

But there's no guarantees here besides what AMD/Intel say. And AMD only guarantees 3,600 MHz for four DIMMs for what it's worth (expand "connectivity").

https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors/desktops/ryzen/9000-series/amd-ryzen-7-9800x3d.html

[A&A]

Originally posted by Outcast82:

so.. what are the max speeds?

if the same controller for 2 dimms 6000mhz (6400 if silicon lottery wib)

but for 4 dimms?

I don't know, but it's certainly well above 3600MHz because AMD is conservative in this spec, certainly there are low-end boards that have 4 DIMM slots and they don't bring as good connection between RAM and CPU as higher-end boards usually do.
Probably a minimum of 4800MHz will do.

[Bad 💀 Motha]

6000 Mhz @ CAS 30 is still the sweet-spot.

[SimicEngineer]

Originally posted by Illusion of Progress:

Threadripper is a not a Xeon counterpart. You're confusing that with Epyc. Threadripper is simply a highly-threaded workstation platform. The same as Intel's old HEDTs.

Intel has folded a bunch of stuff into the Xeon brand, including its current Threadripper equivalents (Xeon W-2500/W-3500), so the confusion is understandable.

[76561199793899658]

Originally posted by SimicEngineer:

Originally posted by Illusion of Progress:

Threadripper is a not a Xeon counterpart. You're confusing that with Epyc. Threadripper is simply a highly-threaded workstation platform. The same as Intel's old HEDTs.

Intel has folded a bunch of stuff into the Xeon brand, including its current Threadripper equivalents (Xeon W-2500/W-3500), so the confusion is understandable.

well I stated it more cause well.

the original enthousist lvl intel cpus on the x39 x59 x79 x99 x199 x299 and x399..
DID do what I stated
*they outperformed or equalled the best gaming cpu in the mainstream sockey series
+ got tons of extra features a generation or two earlier..
*got a few more cores but not crazt much (8 cores or 6 cores when maibstream was still stuck on 4 cores)

pricewise they were reasonable 600-1600 euro while the mainstream cpus costed more like 200-500

those boards could work also with SOME ceon cpus if you inserted ecc memory instead..
but those were in a whole different ballpark
*not performing in games as well. as maibstream
*many of the extra features on the mobo would not work with xeon installed.
*costing insane.. like 3000-12000 euro for a cpu.

this "enthoisiast lvl gpu" and socket basicly has disapeared in todays market.

[Ontrix_Kitsune]

Just read the QVL list for your motherboard and that will tell you what your maximum possible ram speed is. Remember to match your ram kit EXACTLY to the kits listed on the QVL list. Motherboard companies publish those lists for this reason.

[Ontrix_Kitsune]

Originally posted by r.linder:

You don't need more than 2x16 or 2x32, 6000 MHz CL30 for AM5.

It's been documented, tested, and proven that Ryzen AM5 processors (7000 series and 9000 series both) will scale and increase performance with faster DDR5. What people need for ram capacity is completely different for every person depending on what they intend to be running on their computer. Everyone's needs of their computer will be completely different. Someone may need 48GB or more ram and if they do that's perfectly fine. You shouldn't be imposing your opinions on them like that. Let other people make their own choices. Just because you only need 32GB doesn't mean someone else doesn't need more.

[r.linder]

Originally posted by Kithylinite:

Originally posted by r.linder:

You don't need more than 2x16 or 2x32, 6000 MHz CL30 for AM5.

It's been documented, tested, and proven that Ryzen AM5 processors (7000 series and 9000 series both) will scale and increase performance with faster DDR5. What people need for ram capacity is completely different for every person depending on what they intend to be running on their computer. Everyone's needs of their computer will be completely different. Someone may need 48GB or more ram and if they do that's perfectly fine. You shouldn't be imposing your opinions on them like that. Let other people make their own choices. Just because you only need 32GB doesn't mean someone else doesn't need more.

It's literally a generalized statement that's true for 99%, relax.

And the speed difference is minimal, especially for games, and the higher you go the less likely that things are going to be stable, especially if you prefer populating 4 DIMM slots.

[Ontrix_Kitsune]

Originally posted by r.linder:

Originally posted by Kithylinite:

It's been documented, tested, and proven that Ryzen AM5 processors (7000 series and 9000 series both) will scale and increase performance with faster DDR5. What people need for ram capacity is completely different for every person depending on what they intend to be running on their computer. Everyone's needs of their computer will be completely different. Someone may need 48GB or more ram and if they do that's perfectly fine. You shouldn't be imposing your opinions on them like that. Let other people make their own choices. Just because you only need 32GB doesn't mean someone else doesn't need more.

It's literally a generalized statement that's true for 99%, relax.

No that's not even remotely true. There is no "generalized ram usage suggestion". That doesn't exist. Let everyone choose their own ram capacity on their own without imposing suggestions on them like that.

Originally posted by r.linder:

And the speed difference is minimal, especially for games, and the higher you go the less likely that things are going to be stable, especially if you prefer populating 4 DIMM slots.

I have seen reviews on youtube documenting the ram speed improvements. It's quite a lot more than "minimal". Ryzen 7800X3D for example can gain as much as +20% FPS improvement in games (on the minimum 0.1% by the way, not averages) just going from DDR5-6000 -> DDR5-8000. As long as people only use tested memory modules on the QVL list for their motherboard they will never have stability issues. It's literally tested by the people that make the motherboard to be completely stable in their motherboard with their processor at those rated speeds forever.

I have no idea what it is that you're smoking, coming up with all this completely random BS that doesn't even make sense but whatever it is it must be some good stuff. Can I have some?

[r.linder]

Originally posted by Kithylinite:

Originally posted by r.linder:

It's literally a generalized statement that's true for 99%, relax.

No that's not even remotely true. There is no "generalized ram usage suggestion". That doesn't exist. Let everyone choose their own ram capacity on their own without imposing suggestions on them like that.

Originally posted by r.linder:

And the speed difference is minimal, especially for games, and the higher you go the less likely that things are going to be stable, especially if you prefer populating 4 DIMM slots.

I have seen reviews on youtube documenting the ram speed improvements. It's quite a lot more than "minimal". Ryzen 7800X3D for example can gain as much as +20% FPS improvement in games (on the minimum 0.1% by the way, not averages) just going from DDR5-6000 -> DDR5-8000. As long as people only use tested memory modules on the QVL list for their motherboard they will never have stability issues. It's literally tested by the people that make the motherboard to be completely stable in their motherboard with their processor at those rated speeds forever.

I have no idea what it is that you're smoking, coming up with all this completely random BS that doesn't even make sense but whatever it is it must be some good stuff. Can I have some?

Do share these supposed benchmarks that claim a 20% or higher FPS improvement.

It also doesn't really matter what your DRAM frequency is if it's constantly crashing from the system being unable to run it stable. AMD recommends 6000.

[A&A]

Originally posted by Kithylinite:

I have seen reviews on youtube documenting the ram speed improvements. It's quite a lot more than "minimal". Ryzen 7800X3D for example can gain as much as +20% FPS improvement in games (on the minimum 0.1% by the way, not averages) just going from DDR5-6000 -> DDR5-8000. As long as people only use tested memory modules on the QVL list for their motherboard they will never have stability issues. It's literally tested by the people that make the motherboard to be completely stable in their motherboard with their processor at those rated speeds forever.

I have no idea what it is that you're smoking, coming up with all this completely random BS that doesn't even make sense but whatever it is it must be some good stuff. Can I have some?

The QVL lists have become something similar to the Windows processor compatibility lists. Basically it's BS, just see what happens with low end A or H motherboards. Anyway, when you buy RAM, you end up always using dies made by Hynic, Micron or Samsung, so it doesn't really matter that much.

I really recommend you check out the Buildzoid video I shared. 8000MHz can only be the best if you tune it manually and of course if you can do it on a 4 dimm motherboard. Crazy stuff, but having 4 dimm slots and 2 of them occupied will still perform worse than one with 2 dimm slots and both occupied. Just these super high speeds become really sensitive and there were some interesting Intel sheets on this how on 12th (or it was 13th) gen with 1.1v MC performs worse with a such motherboard.

Now what are these 0.1% low FPS in percentages I don't know, but the real numbers also can fool you so without knowing the values we can't talk.