So are all Intel i5/i7/i9 13th/14th gen chips effectively defective?

[Iggy Wolf]

Based on some of the articles I'm recently reading, there's now talk of a class action lawsuit due to the instability of the Raptor Lake chips apparently being a manufacturing defect that's gonna result in most of them failing within the next 3-4 years. I mean, we're not talking about just a few gamer users here.

Entire companies and data centers probably have those chips. And I doubt they're just gonna take it lying down or let Intel off the hook that easily. It's crazy to think they could detect this issue earlier. People's PC's weren't BSODing or having the CPUs crash just because.

[Andrius227]

It sucks but it doesnt really affect me. I upgrade every ~3 years or so and i stopped buying overclockable cpus because of stability problems.

Recently i bought an i7-14700 and an i5-13500. Dont think i will have any problems with them.

I used to buy top of the line cpus, with fancy overpriced motherboards that would do all kinds of automatic overclocking bs and i would get bluescreens… never again.

[C1REX]

The most recent Intel’s own statements suggests that 65W and above CPUs are affected.

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intel-cpu-instability-crashing-bug-includes-65w-and-higher-skus-intel-says-damage-is-irreversible-no-planned-recall

Non official info suggests that even laptops may degrade just at a much slower rate.

[_I_]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Andrius227:

It sucks but it doesnt really affect me. I upgrade every ~3 years or so and i stopped buying overclockable cpus because of stability problems.

Recently i bought an i7-14700 and an i5-13500. Dont think i will have any problems with them.

I used to buy top of the line cpus, with fancy overpriced motherboards that would do all kinds of automatic overclocking bs and i would get bluescreens… never again.

the k skus did not have problems, unless you try to overclock them in poor mobo, or without good cooling, or beyond the luck of the silicon lottery

they do have higher base and turbo clocks than non k variants, and that was really the point of the k cpus since around 7-8th gen iirc
overclocking was pointless, as they would just throttle sooner and lower than left at stock in most situations

[SenMithrarin85]

what is the microcode bug you guys are mentioning? I recently bought a 14700k, completely unaware of all this going on. My retailer (scan in the uk) is also refusing to provide a refund. I haven't noticed any crashing yet, but the chip does reach 100c incredibly easily, despite a 360 aio cooling it. I'm using the latest bios msi have provided too.

[_I_]

not so much bug with its hardcoded l1 cache

its flaws with its production process
rooms may have been contaminated or not cleaned good enough

something with when the silicon was made was not right and the cpus performance will degrade over time, or have more errors, there is no fix other than to replace the cpu

[Lixire]

Oprindeligt skrevet af SenMithrarin85:

what is the microcode bug you guys are mentioning? I recently bought a 14700k, completely unaware of all this going on. My retailer (scan in the uk) is also refusing to provide a refund. I haven't noticed any crashing yet, but the chip does reach 100c incredibly easily, despite a 360 aio cooling it. I'm using the latest bios msi have provided too.

Basically, Intel has confirmed that all Raptor Lake CPUs with a rating of 65W TDP and above are confirmed to have defects and suffer from degradation.
a microcode code should come in mid august (idk when MSI/ASUS and etc will provide their own updated BIOS) which will ship with a new profile for power management to slow down the degradation

Since you are on the 14700K already and cannot refund the CPU. You may want to undervolt and lower the clock multiplier

[Meatflaps]

The only facts that we have right now regarding this issue is "Some" Intel 13'th gen parts were effected with the oxidation defect issue (that "some" is what Intel told us). Unfortunately Intel has not informed the public on what "some" means. We have no range of dates of which 13'th gen parts were effected. We don't even have an exact rough year of when the damaged parts were manufactured.

It could be the 13'th gen parts produced in 2022 that had the defect. Or the ones in 2023. Or the ones this year (they're still being produced and sold). We also don't know how many 13'th gen parts that "some" means. 5% of all of them are damaged? 20%? 80%? We just don't know.

Which 13'th gen models fall under their "some" description? i3's? i5's? i7's? i9's? We don't know that for sure either.

Until Intel tells us more information (if they ever do) there is literally no possible way for anyone to know which 13'th gen parts could potentially have the defect.

[Lixire]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Meatflaps:

The only facts that we have right now regarding this issue is "Some" Intel 13'th gen parts were effected with the oxidation defect issue (that "some" is what Intel told us). Unfortunately Intel has not informed the public on what "some" means. We have no range of dates of which 13'th gen parts were effected. We don't even have an exact rough year of when the damaged parts were manufactured.

It could be the 13'th gen parts produced in 2022 that had the defect. Or the ones in 2023. Or the ones this year (they're still being produced and sold). We also don't know how many 13'th gen parts that "some" means. 5% of all of them are damaged? 20%? 80%? We just don't know.

Which 13'th gen models fall under their "some" description? i3's? i5's? i7's? i9's? We don't know that for sure either.

Until Intel tells us more information (if they ever do) there is literally no possible way for anyone to know which 13'th gen parts could potentially have the defect.

They already told the public about the said issue. every Raptor Lake based CPU with the rating of 65W TDP and above.
so i5 13600K/14600K and above, the i5 13600 non K and slower aren't affected as those are Alder Lake based

[Darkstic]

As far as I can tell these are the affected chips:

13th Gen (Raptor Lake):

- i9-13900K
- i9-13900KF
- i9-13900KS
- i9-13900F
- i9-13900
- i7-13700K
- i7-13700KF
- i7-13700F
- i5-14600K
- i5-14600KF

14th Gen (Meteor Lake):

- i9-14900K
- i9-14900KF
- i9-14900KS
- i9-14900F
- i9-14900
- i7-14700K
- i7-14700KF
- i7-14700F
- i5-14800K
- i5-14800KF

[Floid]

Can anyone answer this question for me. I'm curious if this micro-code issue has always existed in the 13th & 14th gens - or whether it was the micro-code update in June / July of last year (as shown by GN) that introduced the instability / issue ???

[C1REX]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Floid:

Can anyone answer this question for me. I'm curious if this micro-code issue has always existed in the 13th & 14th gens - or whether it was the micro-code update in June / July of last year (as shown by GN) that introduced the instability / issue ???

Yes. It existed since launch and potentially degraded some CPUs.

[Andrius227]

Oprindeligt skrevet af C1REX:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Floid:

Can anyone answer this question for me. I'm curious if this micro-code issue has always existed in the 13th & 14th gens - or whether it was the micro-code update in June / July of last year (as shown by GN) that introduced the instability / issue ???

Yes. It existed since launch and potentially degraded some CPUs.

If it took 2 years to even notice that anything is wrong its probably not as bad as people think it is.

I think most cpus have a three year warranty so if it fails in that time you can get a replacenent. No big deal.

[AmaiAmai]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Floid:

Can anyone answer this question for me. I'm curious if this micro-code issue has always existed in the 13th & 14th gens - or whether it was the micro-code update in June / July of last year (as shown by GN) that introduced the instability / issue ???

It always existed and was known and complained about since Last of Us and Jedi Survivor launch. Intel is full of it if they claim no one told them since I know I sure did.

Can't wait for the lawsuit's discovery portion, won't be surprised if they knew a lot longer and much more than they claim to have.

One thing is for certain, I'll never optimize a single piece of code for their CPUs again. I am sure many feel the same way after wasting their time attempting to fix bugs that didn't exist on every other CPU besides Intel 13/14th gen and Intel's BS answers.

They did more damage by lying than being transparent. Unfortunately, the congressmen have Intel stock so they will get bailed out as mentioned above.

At the very least they need their leadership sacked.

[smokerob79]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Caldari Ghost:

no, just the i9's

no its everything down to i5's and intel knew it......gamers nexus posted the proof they knew about it in 2022......anyone saying other wise needs to learn somethings......

[Crashed]

Oprindeligt skrevet af kingjames488:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Caldari Ghost:

no, just the i9's

no it's not...

I'm pretty sure I've got at least some issues on a 13700f... not even a performance chip.

hopefully it's something they can fix with the microcode update and it's not fried it's self due to being a less demanding chip :S

My 13900K may be partially fried but it's still good enough to run Intel Default Settings on my Z790 based motherboard with beta BIOS. If your BIOS doesn't have "Intel Default Settings" then your BIOS isn't new enough.

For me it's like flipping a switch between unstable and running Prime95 error-free.