(SOLVED) Does anyone know if the B450M PRO-VDH Max is already updated with the lastest bios?

[Bing Chilling]

from what i've read online, the MAX part in the name means it has the most reason bios update

i'm asking because i do not have a 2000/3000 series CPU to update the bios
and i am planning on buying a 5000 series AM4 cpu.

thanks.

Update: i'm just going to go with a higher end mobo instead of relying on
if the bios is updated, as there's no flashback on this mobo,it's quite low end for a 5800x3D, AMD's loaner program is closed (to my knowledge) and buying a second hand cpu for cheap just to update it, seems kinda pointless when the MSI MPG AMD B550 has flashback,is quite alot nicer and is most likely already updated as it says on the website. Plus it's only $40 CAD more then the B450M PRO-VDH Max

thanks for the help in the comments though

[Tonepoet]

Bing Chilling a écrit :

if i'm buying an intel k series chip, i'm not putting it on a non overclockable motherboard, these are eh in price, since the board that comes with ddr5, is only going to be around 30$ cad cheaper then the ryzen with the msi board. then the 12700kf lacks quite abit with performance compared to the 5800x3d especially if i go with the DDR4 version board for the 12700kf
(i already have 32gb ddr4 3600 cl16 that i have tuned to cl14)
source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-l8dJRvb3c&t

I kind of have to disagree with the philosophy of insisting that K skus must only be used with overclockable motherboards. It's normally sound advice, but that's mostly because k skus tend to be more expensive. When the K sku is cheaper than the non-k sku, I'd go with the K sku every time regardless of the motherboard.

Why is the 12600kf cheaper than the 12600[ca.pcpartpicker.com]? I dunno, maybe it's cause of the dogma that k sku chips must be used with overclockable motherboards, so people don't even look at the thing and buy the 12600 instead. Or maybe people really think Intel integrated graphics are worth $140 Canadian Dollars on a desktop.

I guess the electrical consumption does look a fair bit higher on the k sku chip but that's normal on chips with more cores and higher base clocks, and that's more of an upper limit of power consumption than the actual amount.

the only real benefit (and it is a big one) of going that route is
i'd be able to eventually upgrade to a 14th series chip.
that said, with a 5800x3d, i'm basically already getting 14900k performance
source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llKZzym9hAo&t

First of all, I must warn that upgrade path. There are microcode and manufacturing defect issues with raptor lake chips. The microcode bug will be fixed, but we don't really know which chips may or may not be affected by an oxidation issue, other than that Intel fixed the manufacturing problem that caused it sometime in 2023. We have to view Alder Lake and AM4 as equally dead platforms. A microcode fix applied via B.I.O.S. update should be coming mid-august, but we need to learn more about that oxidation defect before it is fully safe to buy a 14th gen processor.

Also, I've seen the gamer's nexus review of the 5700x3D before, but it's really inconclusive to me regarding exactly how much perf. you leave on the table because 12th gen. inclusion in the results is spotty. Look at where the 12600kf lands in those Final Fantasy ⅩⅣ results. It's right after the 5700x3D, which is by Gamer Nexus's own admission only 5% weaker than the 5800x3D.

Where's the 12th gen chips on the Stellaris Nexus benchmark? I can only assume the 12600kf is worse than the 13600k, but so are the 5X00x3D chips. I don't see 12th gen chips it in the Starfield benchmark. I have an idea that a 12700k is worse than a 14900k and a 14600k worse than the 14600k, but so are the 5X00x3D chips.

Let's look at a Hardware Unboxed video that actually pits the 12700k and the 12600k together with the 5800x3d, shall we?

The Best C.P.Us. for Gaming, Current & Preious Generation Update

Now this is going to be a long list of games, so I can't include the results of every chip, but I am going to try and give an idea of how they're clustered by either listing the chips inbetween the 12th gen. chips in question and the 5800x3D. It should be noted all games are tested with an RTX 4090

First game, Baldur's Gate 3 1080p ultra:

• 12700k: 111 average with 79 1% lows
  
• 7600x: 107 average with 77 1% lows
  
• 5800x3d: 105 average with 68 1% lows
  
• 12600k: 101 average with 67 1% lows

The Last of us Part 1 1080p Ultra:

• 12700k: 164 average with 120 1% lows
  
• 5800x3D: 157 average with 109 1% lows
  
• 12600k: 148 average with 108 1% lows

Cyberpunk 2077: Phantom Liberty High:

• 12700k: 146 average with 120 lows
  
• 5800x3D: 143 average with 105 lows
  
• 7900x: 140 average with 108 lows
  
• 7600x:
  
• 12600k 133 with 102 lows

Hogwarts Legacy 1080p High Quality:

• 12700k: 109 average with 77 1%lows
  
• 7600x: 108 average with 73 1% Lows
  
• 12600k: 104 average with 73 1% lows
  
• 5800x3d: 96 average with 61 1% lows

Asetto Corsa Competizone 1080p Epic:

• 14700k: 166 average with 145 1% lows
  
• 5800x3D 166 average with 136 1% lows
  
• (six chips omitted)
  
• 12700k 136 average: 118 lows
  
• 12600k 128 with 111 1%lows

Spider-man remastered 1080p very high:

• 12700k 151 with 116 1% lows
  
• 12600k: 146 with 113 1% lows
  
• 5800x3D 141 with 107 1% lows

Homeworld 3 1080p Epic, TAUU:

• 5800x3D: 74 average with 28 1% lows
  
• (8 chips omitted)
  
• 12700k: 61 average with 17 1% lows
  
• (two chips omitted)
  
• 12600k : 54 average 1% 16 lows (underperforms 5800x)

A Plague Tale: Requiem 1080p Ultra

• 12700k: 132 average with 85 1% lows
  
• 5800x3D 128 with 92 1% lows
  
• 7900x 128 with 89 1% lows
  
• 12600k 119 with 78 1% lows

Counter-Stike 2 1080p Medium

• 5800x3D: 413 with 255 1% lows
  
• 12900k: 402 with 242 1% lows
  
• 5950x: 371 with 213 1% lows
  
• 5800x 363 with 200 1% lows
  
• 12700k: 360 average with 224 1% lows
  
• 12600k: 340 average with 210 1% lows

Star Field 4090 1080p Ultra

• 12700k: 107 average with 84 1% lows
  
• 7900x: 105 average with 84 1% lows
  
• 7600x: 102 average with 83 1% lows
  
• 12600k: 98 F.P.S. average with 77 1% lows
  
• 5800x3D: 94 average with 75 1% lows

Horizon Forbidden West Very High 1080p:

• 12700k 143 average. with 102 1% lows
  
• 7600x: 141 average 101 1% lows
  
• 5800x3D: 138 average with 94 1% lows
  
• 12600k: 135 average with 97 1% lows

Hitman 3 1080p Ultra:

• 12700k: 227 with 194 1% lows
  
• 12600k: 216 with 181 1% lows
  
• 5800x3D 195 with 171 1% lows.

1080p average rankings:

(Here I shall list all compared chips since I only have to do it once)

• 7800x3D: 180 average with 128 1% lows
  
• 14900k 170 average with 111 1% lows
  
• 7950x3D 169 average with 119 1% lows
  
• 14700k 164 average with 108 1% lows
  
• 7900x3d: 163 average with 114 1% lows
  
• 14600k: 156 average with 103 1% lows
  
• 7900x: 152 average with 108 1% lows
  
• 7700x: 151 average with 109 1% lows
  
• 12900k: 150 average with 104 1% lows
  
• 7600x: 145 average with 103 1% lows
  
• 12700k: 141 average with 97 1% lows
  
• 5800x3d: 140 average with 96 1% lows
  
• 12600k: 131 average with 89 1% lows
  
• 5950x: 113 average with 80 1% lows
  
• 5800x: 113 average with 79 1% lows
  
• 5600x 104 average with 72 1% lows

I wish I read the video description before I transcribed this data. This most of this data is featured in a techspot article[www.techspot.com].

As you can see, the i7 12700k, the i5 12600k and the 5800x3d are usually clustered together and none of these chips are ordinarily anywhere near 7800x3d or 14900k levels of performance. There are many intervening chips. The 12600kf even beats the 5800x3D sometimes, and when it doesn't it's usually trailing close behind. That the 5800x3d can sometimes compete with the 14900 is impressive, but that also means it's more inconsistent in perf.

Now the 5700x3d was omitted because of a 5% performance difference from the 5800x3D, which is corroborated by the Gamer's nexus review of the chip, but where does the 5700x3D really rank? Based on a separate, but similar 12 game average it's 132 F.P.S. on average in a similar but different 12 game roundup. With 132 on average, you'd technically slot it just above the 12600k, but really? They're basically tied. And now what?

There is a 54% cost difference between the 12600kf and the 5800x3D for a mere 5% performance boost?

I dunno man. That's looking like a pretty bad deal to me. You can't overclock the 5800x3d anyway, not even with P.B.O., because it'll destroy the v-cache, so A.M.D. locked it down (which is uncharacteristic but responsible of them).

If you already had an AM4 motherboard, maybe. I'll have to think about that more. Regardless, coming into this thread, it seems to me as if you don't, so you'd have to buy one, and whatever funds you divest into an AM4 motherboard you could divest into an LGA 1700 motherboard, and then have 188 left over to invest in R.A.M., which is an investment you're going to have to make anyways.

This 6000mhz 30 cas latency Corsair Vengence D.D.R. 5 R.A.M. only costs $152[www.amazon.ca], so you'd even have an extra 36 leftover to invest in getting a higher grade motherboard over what you'd be spending on AM4 and remain on whatever budget you would've spent on buying the 5800x3D/motherboard combo, with more future proof R.A.M.

You can't even overclock the 5800x3D even if you wanted to do so because it's locked, and it's locked for good reason[www.tomshardware.com], so why worry about overclocking a 12600kf or a 12700kf when these chips all perform around the same? at base and two of them are way, way more affordable at the moment?

[r.linder]

If you're worried about performance, wait for 9000 series and forget about AM4, otherwise the 5700X or X3D is fine

[_I_]

12700k and z790 board will cost about $575 cad
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/BdFTxs

5700xed + 135 mobo = $415 cad
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/ybkdt7

not worth the price diff for <10% in games imho
esp when the odds are it will be gpu bottlenecked first

[Tonepoet]

_I_ a écrit :

12700k and z790 board will cost about $575 cad
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/BdFTxs

5700xed + 135 mobo = $415 cad
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/ybkdt7

not worth the price diff for <10% in games imho
esp when the odds are it will be gpu bottlenecked first

Well, I mean I'm under the impression that the 12600kf is within 5% of the 5800x3D in the first place right now unless somebody can show me better evidence to the contrary. I don't understand why you'd specifically need a z790 chipset. It looks like the only real difference between z690 and z790[www.velocitymicro.com] is one more U.S.B. port, and a R.A.M. speed clock up to 6800 instead of "just" 6400, and given that most people here use 6000 mzh D.D.R. 5 R.A.M. I'm not too impressed by that just yet.

If we are suggessting it is okay to be within roughly 5% then a 12600kf even at stock clocks should be a decent enough choice. $220 canadian plus $167 Canadian[www.amazon.ca] is $387 Canadian, undercutting the 5800x3D. by at least 23 canadian, and we are possibly even looking at using a b series chipset at stock clocks maybe being sufficient to maintain this level of stock level perf. maybe allowing us to undercut the motherboard costs even more.

Also, we compare like processors with like processors as best as possible, so if we are going below the 5800x, which is in a lower performance tier already based on the techspot results[www.techspot.com], and by more like 15% weaker than the 12600kf already by the way, so we are possibly looking at using the 12400f as a basis of comparison rather than the 12600kf. The 12400f costs more like 159[www.amazon.ca] whereas the 5700x costs maybe $213, possibly more realistically like $248[ca.pcpartpicker.com]. We're possibly looking at the cheapest Asrock h610 hdv/m2 motherboard at least sufficing to handle the 12400f, which shouldn't be surprising since it's the entry level i5 and lga 1700 would've been designed to handle an upgrade from its debut generation. 109+160=268. If we're saying the 5700x costs 248 anyway, and we're coming from a position of not having a mobo, $20 canadian doesn't seem like a whole lot of extra to pay.

Now granted, if we're coming from a position of having an AM4 motherboard, then I'm thinking at a 5700x probably outclasses a 12400f by some unknown amount, possibly making it the better option in this sub 5800x perf. class, but I think Bing Chilling wants more of a perf. uplift than even a 5800x offers though, rendering the entire point rather moot even if the 5700x is the better choice.

We're looking at 7600x, 12700kf, 5800x3d, 5700x3d or 12600kf as all being within the same perf. cluster, in that order of preference if all other factors are to be considered equal. Of course, all other factors aren't equal and if it were me, coming in without an existing motherboard, I'd go with a 12600kf overclocked or not, based on price and D.D.R. 4 support for the R.A.M. already in my possession.

[r.linder]

5800X3D also made an utter mockery of the 12900K, and with the issues with 13th and 14th gen, LGA1700 is pretty much pointless right now, especially for the OP

[Bing Chilling]

Bad 💀 Motha a écrit :

You can usually get a good combo deal with MSI MAG series Motherboard along with 5700X3D. You want something you can use multiple NVME PCIE 4.0 SSDs on. B450 is junk dont buy those.

this is already solved.

i'm going with the MSI MPG AMD B550 with a 5800x3d as it says in the update.
also these combo's aren't available in canada anyways.