Why does a Windows 11 update still feel like it's 1985?

[Adam Beckett]

I decided today to hop from Win11 21H2 to 23H2 (Preview build) ... and - like always with Microsoft Windows - they wasted my whole day.

Initially, I wanted to skip to the 24H2 version (Insider Preview), but that didn't work out, since the update was stuck on 31%.

"Please do not turn off your computer".

Googlebinging "31% windows update stuck" ... gave me years old reddit and MS posts of users having the exact same issue.

Eventually, I was able to install 23H2 - having to re-enable TPM 2.0, Hypervisor and 'Secure Boot' in the UEFI/BIOS settings. I could not skip those, because I needed to 'update' my existing Windows install, due to the gazillion games that are installed on this particular machine, with license keys bound to the registry (yes, that still exists). Export/Import local profile is risky and may not work with all files/folders/reg-settings.

What feels like it's 1985 (MS Windows 1.0) is the fact that Windows is STILL doing the same s**t in the same s**tty manner: obscurity over transparency.

Slap a blue screen on the display and pretend "We got this! Don't worry about anything" - The Redmond way. Also the Apple way - even though, less sophisticated.

With old UNIX (and now Linux) systems, you get to see what is happening, where it is at all times, where it is temporarily stuck, what came before - line by line.

With Windows, you stare at a blue screen - or worse - a loading bar or a fake percentage number stuck at 6% for 30 minutes.

Things may or may not be happening in the background.

Granted, Microsoft never cared about giving more 'sophisticated' users a different option. Even sysadmins doing large-scale mass deployment via console/powershell and DISM have lots to complain about. It is not just us - 'Gamers'.

And to finish it off - after a (successful) update, I decided to immediately delete the previous Windows version ... using the 'Disk Cleanup' Windows tool.

"Immediately delete" ... I have to take it back.

Windows took like another 30 minutes to 'delete' these files (4x4.3GHz Intel, 32GB RAM + SSD), because it did not just rewrite the file table (MFT), but instead PHYSICALLY WROTE for 30 minutes zeroes to erase the nodes?! SSD C: drive usage 100% for 30 min! WTF?!

It was not finished while I started to write this essay here.

My apologies for doing this 'me-blog-post' in public.

I needed to vent. Where better than though a 'Valve'?

[Lord Flashheart]

A guess you would be using a cheap SSD with no DRAM cache.

[Bad 💀 Motha]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Grand Ayatrollah:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Bad 💀 Motha:

You can just use a local account; never need to use MS online account for WinOS.
Save that for apps/services you might want to log into via the Store app or Web Browser.
No one forcing you to use a MS account as your OS login.

omg the laptop we are talking about in the other thread...

FORCED ME TO USE INTERNET BEFORE I COULD EVEN CONTINUE

its absolutely mandatory to sign up a fake microsoft account. i couldnt believe it normally theyre really good at hiding the local account option because they dont want everyone clicking on it. but IT WAS NOT THERE! lol

i had to download the factory iso from windows and then with rufus, disable microsoft account requirments.


i musta had one special laptop. its half the reason i gave up on windows 11 ad retured it to the store. maybe i just had a pos laptop and im hating win 11 for no reason?

Because you installed Win11 wrong maybe.

First, use the RUFUS method.

If you must use the normal method, enter the BIOS and DISABLE LAN+WIFI+BT before installing Win11 and then it can't give you a "Go Online" option. After the OS is installed you can reboot and then re-enter BIOS and enable those motherboard features normally; then continue onward.

[SHAZBOT]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Bad 💀 Motha:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Grand Ayatrollah:

omg the laptop we are talking about in the other thread...

FORCED ME TO USE INTERNET BEFORE I COULD EVEN CONTINUE

its absolutely mandatory to sign up a fake microsoft account. i couldnt believe it normally theyre really good at hiding the local account option because they dont want everyone clicking on it. but IT WAS NOT THERE! lol

i had to download the factory iso from windows and then with rufus, disable microsoft account requirments.


i musta had one special laptop. its half the reason i gave up on windows 11 ad retured it to the store. maybe i just had a pos laptop and im hating win 11 for no reason?

Because you installed Win11 wrong maybe.

First, use the RUFUS method.

If you must use the normal method, enter the BIOS and DISABLE LAN+WIFI+BT before installing Win11 and then it can't give you a "Go Online" option. After the OS is installed you can reboot and then re-enter BIOS and enable those motherboard features normally; then continue onward.

no that was my try it as is run. that was the default lenovo os

ive already discussed this with people in this forum. its a known thing you have to bypass account stuff in rufus now. maybe this is new?

Diposting pertama kali oleh Lord Flashheart:

A guess would be you are using a cheap SSD with no DRAM cache.

2012 hp laptop it was old ayway.

[SHAZBOT]

Originally posted by Blueberry {♥♥♥♥♥ IS LORD}:
yes it does, rufus disables tpm
and microsoft account during setup



https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/11/4333106230733469353/


they talking about rufus disabling microsoft accout. imnot there because i got banned and my posts wiped with 3 passes

[Crashed]

When you go from 21H2 to 22H2 or 23H2 you are actually performing a full system upgrade. Same will happen going to 24H2.

If you have a lot of stuff installed on your PC the upgrade process can take a very long time.

Typically it should take just a few minutes to wipe an old OS install; the zeroing of the Windows files should happen in the background via the drive's TRIM function not instantly during deletion.

Tested myself on my system, with a 51GB estimate, it took maybe 4 minutes to complete.

Also it doesn't matter if you have 1 CPU or 128 CPUs, Disk Cleanup is single-threaded and thus only uses 1 at a time.

[Spec_Ops_Ape]

Last time I installed Win11 I used the task manager to disable the Network Flow Connection service which then let me install Win11 using the local account option. Is this still do-able as it has been about a year since I did that.
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/how-do-i-set-up-windows-11-without-internet/e348329d-f136-4460-b2f7-bc2bfa32c4e7

[Adam Beckett]

Agree with everyone here. Few points:

1. Do not use Windows 11 at all. Always good advise.

... except the latest PC games are developed on it, tested on it, and demand it and bugs and (DRM) issues are only addressed going forward on those. I stayed on Win7/8.1/10 as long as I could. Still use those for older games.

2. Best update practice: offline.

Download ISO, use Rufus (bypass TPM), offline, local account (link only to MS account for license validation, etc).

3. What causes the Windows update rat-race and vice-versa?

For ages now, MS and their partners are pushing new hardware features unto users to make them buy new hardware. While you can STILL install Win7 on many new boards, the cpu, gpu and chip drivers are Romulan space: you enter at your own risk.

On top, Microsoft is driven by shareholders and corporate customers - never single consumers, reacting to stock market (fashion) trends: "ChatGPT! AI! CyberSecurity!" What drives Redmond feature updates is mainly a bonanza marketing department, arm-in-arm with sales, answering shareholder demands.

---------

I cannot count how many years of my life I was watching reboots, splash screens and DOS and Windows loading bars, pretending to move from left to right. Since my first 286 system.

If it wasn't for DCS, MS Flight Simulator or now games like Wukong (Unreal Engine Hardware Lumen), or HL RT, Quake RT mods (RT pathtracing) etc, I would not be using Win 11 at all.

You, me ... cannot tell game developers, publishers, investors, shareholders, to drop Windows. Valve tried (and still tries), but the Steam hardware survey stats needle barely moves?

Maybe the big tech-switch to ARM will help? But the next trouble is already on the way: every future mainboard shipping with NPUs (AI chip)?

Soon, every consumer PC will do 'AI' not from the cloud, but at home?

"THIS GAME DEMANDS WINDOWS 12 WITH AT LEAST 1 NPU"

... is something we all will see rather sooner than later.

Everyone's next Windows upgrade is guaranteed.

[KalGimpa]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Adam Beckett:

For ages now, MS and their partners are pushing new hardware features unto users to make them buy new hardware. While you can STILL install Win7 on many new boards, the cpu, gpu and chip drivers are Romulan space: you enter at your own risk.

not just

"for ages"

from the very beginning

windows has always had a paid upgrade every couple of years

until windows 10

we got that for free (whether we wanted it or not, sometimes)

same with 11 and probably from here on out

tech moves forward and we either play with our old stuff or move with it

not sure why this is such a problem for people now

but this is nothing new

[Crashed]

Not sure why you are politicizing a feature update.
As I already pointed out it is a full OS upgrade.

The reason these full upgrades take so long is that the installation process installs a new version of Windows but also has to inventory all installed programs, user profiles, and settings in order to safely migrate them to the new installation.

The upgrade process hasn't really changed a lot since Windows 7.