Why we can't trust Nvidia users anymore. DLSS.

[Skkooomer Lord]

"4070S is a 4K card"


Lists all games using DLSS..

So none of them are 4K.

In the comments, "no but I consider it 4K because of final image."


Cognitive dissonance and software reliance for performance, not GPU horsepower.

The new delulu.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/1duz20n/blown_away_by_how_capable_the_4070s_is_even_at_4k/

[C1REX]

Daniel Owen just made a very cool video showing why DLSS is so important these days.

Film YouTube™: Gaming at 1440p is as fast as 1080p while looking better. Seriously. 

Wyświetleń: 131,219

Is upgrading from 1080p to 1440p worth it? Isn't it harder to run a 1440p monitor? With upscaling technologies like DLSS, running games on a 1440p display can look better than running at 1080p native...

[Andrius227]

Początkowo opublikowane przez C1REX:

Daniel Owen just made a very cool video showing why DLSS is so important these days.

Film YouTube™: Gaming at 1440p is as fast as 1080p while looking better. Seriously. 

Wyświetleń: 131,219

Is upgrading from 1080p to 1440p worth it? Isn't it harder to run a 1440p monitor? With upscaling technologies like DLSS, running games on a 1440p display can look better than running at 1080p native...

Yeah. DLSS is great. People who call it 'fake frames' and stuff, are just stupid. Humans dont even see in 'frames'. As long as the overall image is clear and moves smoothly it's all that matters.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Andrius227:

Początkowo opublikowane przez C1REX:

Daniel Owen just made a very cool video showing why DLSS is so important these days.

Film YouTube™: Gaming at 1440p is as fast as 1080p while looking better. Seriously. 

Wyświetleń: 131,219

Is upgrading from 1080p to 1440p worth it? Isn't it harder to run a 1440p monitor? With upscaling technologies like DLSS, running games on a 1440p display can look better than running at 1080p native...

Yeah. DLSS is great. People who call it 'fake frames' and stuff, are just stupid. Humans dont even see in 'frames'. As long as the overall image is clear and moves smoothly it's all that matters.

actually human brains DO see the world in frames..:) something bout how our brain processes what the eye sees..

not all humans have the same speed in this.. for some humans it is as low as 60fps but the upper limit for humans is about 120fps.. more not even the best visually gifted of us can see..

what we CAN however see is when frames are not smooth (which is ofcourse the difference between watrching a real object and a screen..) while we cannot truelly "see" this.. it does tire us to look at... and this is why syncing.. and having slighly higher fps than our eyes natively can prevent this


and 1080p in this year NOBODY not even budgetgamers are stuck to that resolution.
as any card even a budgetpc bought last gen can run 1440p at 60fps or more WITHOUT DLSS

now what this jackass is comparing here is... running 1080p or running 1440p with DLSS.. what he is NOT comparing is 1440p natively (but with lower fps) vs 1080p upscaled to 1440p with the higher fps.

for MOST running that 1440p even with the cut in fps natively looks MUCH better.
hence "fake frames"

so yeah perhaps for people with potato pc.. dlss can help pumping 1 more year of use out of their ancient hardware.. for anyone with at least a halve decent system... it should not be an issue as they can already run 1440p natively..

and when you than say upscale to 4k.. BAD idea.. for a higher resolution also makes things smaller... and you don't want density of pixels to high to make things for gaming not to small to deley your responcetime (I play a lot of strategy where the 1 advantage of higher resolution is seeing more of the map at once having to do less scrolling.. but any time lost cause you staring to TINY images to find what you look for looses you any gains of that larger resolution..

so basicly if you want 4k you want a 40 inch screen.. and those cost 1600 euro.. for a proper one.. and if you got that kind of money.. you got proper gpu kind of money too.

DLSS is crap. RTX has it's niceness.. but not at the powerdraw it currently asks (electricly will cost you 3-5 times what a gpu costs over it's lifetime) so I rather have PROPER gpu power.

DLSS is like placing your overweight mallcop in a scootmobile...
RTX is giving him a bigger gun
raw power is actually doing stricter recruit selecting and tougher training so they are stronger, better, smarter etc to start with.

[󠀡󠀡]

Not Sure Who I Like More Star Scream Or OP OP's PC Is An Eyesoar

[C1REX]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Dutchgamer1982:

DLSS is crap.

That’s an opinion and different people may have a different one.
Most people have a 1080p monitor because they believe it’s easier to run = cheaper. When they could have a better looking game and more fps on a 1440p monitor with DLSS.
Or even better looking game without DLSS.

DLSS gives options and doesn’t lock you out of native resolution.

I personally think 4K is even better and can be almost as easy to run as 1080p with DLSS. Or close to 1440p performance with DLSS quality for a superb image quality.

Not all 4K monitors cost 1600 euro.

And DLSS can help to save on power consumption. So you can save for a better GPU and better monitor.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Początkowo opublikowane przez C1REX:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Dutchgamer1982:

DLSS is crap.

That’s an opinion and different people may have a different one.
Most people have a 1080p monitor because they believe it’s easier to run = cheaper. When they could have a better looking game and more fps on a 1440p monitor with DLSS.
Or even better looking game without DLSS.

DLSS gives options and doesn’t lock you out of native resolution.

I personally think 4K is even better and can be almost as easy to run as 1080p with DLSS. Or close to 1440p performance with DLSS quality for a superb image quality.

Not all 4K monitors cost 1600 euro.

And DLSS can help to save on power consumption. So you can save for a better GPU and better monitor.

as even budgetgamers replace their pc every 4-5 years orso.. and buy 1200 euro pc's minimum... and 1440p screens quite cheap for quite a long time now... there should nobody be left who does not have at least a 1440p TN screen. (most even IPS)

even in 2016 only like 10-15% of gamers still would go for 1080p.. today 1080p is extinct games released now should not even support it anymore.

the jump to 4k however takes longer than expected... while 1440p basicly became possible with the 9xx series and mainsteam with the 1xxx series..

it has not until now the 4xxx series 4k first has becomes possible.. and it still remains to see if 5xxx can make it mainsteam. (unless the 5070 performs as good as an 4090.. which is unlikely to happen)

and again 4k without proper size is pointless.

for any monitor you will want
1ms responcetime or less
16:9 (widescreen sucks)
gsync or (but ideally and) freesync
100hz or more
a pixel density thats in the sweetspotrange of about 1500 pixels per cm2 and not much below or above.
(to far above and things get to small for practical gaming and have to sit to close to your screen and damage your eyes/ to far below and you see pixels)

this means that for 4k your screen surface must be about between 5000 and 6000cm2
which equals to 40-44 inch.
any smaller and 4k is worse than 1440p


well now if you look for monitors with those specs..
only 9 excist and thats without g-sync support and with any panel type.


without G-sync support the cheapest you can get is 600 euro
Iiyama G-Master G4380UHSU-B1

but thats an ugly VA screen.. and it lacks g-sync as EVERYBODY is used to at least IPS now.. I would say NOPE to that

if you want a proper type of screen the price goes up to 1200 euro
Philips Evnia 42M2N8900/00
it at least is a proper OLED screen, but it still has no G-sync support

meaning the ONLY 2 proper 4k screens on the market today are
LG UltraGear 48GQ900 (1550 euro)
ASUS ROG Swift OLED PG48UQ (1600 euro)

the discontinued :
Alienware AW5520QF (5500 euro)
would also not be a bad pick but it is too large for 4k, and as stated discotinued and even 2dhand likely cost more than those other 2 screens new)

[_I_]

im sorry, but a lcd displays lifespan is more than 5 years

crt my be gone, but the early vga res range is still supported by windows
800x600 to 1280x1024, but even 1920x1200 is supported by vga

[Dutchgamer1982]

Początkowo opublikowane przez _I_:

im sorry, but a lcd displays lifespan is more than 5 years

crt my be gone, but the early vga res range is still supported by windows
800x600 to 1280x1024, but even 1920x1200 is supported by vga

I had a 1200x1600 21 inch crt in like 2000... switched to 23 inch tft 1080p in like 2006.. replaced it in 2008 for same size tn and in 2012 for 25 inch VA and in 2016 for 27 inch 1440p IPS
(back than there was only ONE screen that matched all the specs you wanted.. and it was 900 euro)

now similair screens can be had for nothing 150 euro.. thats nothing.. I mean a teenage kid can earn more than that stocking shelves parttine on a saturday..
and thats IPS... TN 1440p screens were already just 200 euro in 2016...

there is NO excuse to not have an 1440p screen in 2024.. they have been around at affordable prices quite some time.

and yeah I likely would have upgraded again.. to either an 32 inch oled 1440p or 44 inch oled 4k were it not that I am dissatisfied with the powerdraw of modern gpu's... and had quite the number of rma's and upgrade on this screen.. so yeah my current 1440p screen is from 2016..

and I likely replace it end this year or next year when finally 4k 100fps gpu's excist that not draw over 250w (I might have basicly no limit on my hardwarebuy budget.. my utility cost is of a concertn to me... high end gpu's always used 250w every top nvidea card every titan card used just 250w... I find 450w ridiculous.. I rather paid twice as much for an 4090 that used halve the wattage.

[C1REX]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Dutchgamer1982:

there should nobody be left who does not have at least a 1440p TN screen. (most even IPS)

According to steam hardware data about 20% of players play at 1440p and less than 4% at 4K.
About 60% of players are still on a 1080p monitor.
The most popular GPU is RTX 3060 12GB what is not bad but the second most common is tragic GTX 1650 4GB.
Sadly, some people are still on GTX cards that don't support DLSS and can't handle native 1440p in new games. Or even 1080p in some cases.

[Illusion of Progress]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Dutchgamer1982:

as even budgetgamers replace their pc every 4-5 years orso.. and buy 1200 euro pc's minimum... and 1440p screens quite cheap for quite a long time now... there should nobody be left who does not have at least a 1440p TN screen. (most even IPS)

Why do some enthusiasts kid themselves so much?

Do you really think there aren't people out there spending less than 1,200 on a PC?

Or that there aren't people waiting longer than four or five years to replace something?

Or that there aren't people sometimes *gasp* doing both of those at once!?

Because there are, there are, and there are, respectively.

And a lot of people will buy a good display and hang onto it for a long time. My fifteen year old display would probably cause you a panic attack.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Dutchgamer1982:

even in 2016 only like 10-15% of gamers still would go for 1080p.. today 1080p is extinct games released now should not even support it anymore.

Meanwhile, back in reality, you can collectively add the number of users of 1440p and 4K together... and then double them... and it's still less than the number of users on 1080p. Of course, most of those older panels and not directly representative of what's selling today, but a disparity like that today does not paint a picture of "1080p was 10% to 15% of sales" almost a decade ago. Especially if you're simultaneously pushing a narrative that people replace them every five years at most. Your own claims don't work together.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Początkowo opublikowane przez C1REX:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Dutchgamer1982:

there should nobody be left who does not have at least a 1440p TN screen. (most even IPS)

According to steam hardware data about 20% of players play at 1440p and less than 4% at 4K.
About 60% of players are still on a 1080p monitor.
The most popular GPU is RTX 3060 12GB what is not bad but the second most common is tragic GTX 1650 4GB.
Sadly, some people are still on GTX cards that don't support DLSS and can't handle native 1440p in new games. Or even 1080p in some cases.

causuals and third world country users don't count

call me a snob but I stem from the times only 1 in 30 households even had a pc.. and pc gaming ment basicly something.. it was like playing d&d, magic the gathering, larping, renactment etc not for the causual person.. and gaming ment having way above average iq, and vast knowledge of both hardware and software...
tne people who do not have 50 hobbies and sometimes play a game but who spend most their money on hardware.. to always keep up with the times..

just a person who has a pc cause modern life needs one now.. and occational plays a game.. does not a gamer make

[Dutchgamer1982]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Illusion of Progress:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Dutchgamer1982:

as even budgetgamers replace their pc every 4-5 years orso.. and buy 1200 euro pc's minimum... and 1440p screens quite cheap for quite a long time now... there should nobody be left who does not have at least a 1440p TN screen. (most even IPS)

Why do some enthusiasts kid themselves so much?

Do you really think there aren't people out there spending less than 1,200 on a PC?

Or that there aren't people waiting longer than four or five years to replace something?

Or that there aren't people sometimes *gasp* doing both of those at once!?

Because there are, there are, and there are, respectively.

And a lot of people will buy a good display and hang onto it for a long time. My fifteen year old display would probably cause you a panic attack.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Dutchgamer1982:

even in 2016 only like 10-15% of gamers still would go for 1080p.. today 1080p is extinct games released now should not even support it anymore.

Meanwhile, back in reality, you can collectively add the number of users of 1440p and 4K together... and then double them... and it's still less than the number of users on 1080p. Of course, most of those older panels and not directly representative of what's selling today, but a disparity like that today does not paint a picture of "1080p was 10% to 15% of sales" almost a decade ago. Especially if you're simultaneously pushing a narrative that people replace them every five years at most. Your own claims don't work together.

no.. an AVERAGE gamer spends about 2400-3600 euro on a new pc every 4 years..

thats AVERAGE

enthousiant level people always have the best there is... aka they sell their 3090ti the moment an 4090 releases etc.. never settle for anything but the best of the moment.

that steam also count a billion third world users without western incomes and causual kids who play sometimes a game on their moms old laptop.. does not count towards being gamers..:)

[Dutchgamer1982]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Illusion of Progress:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Dutchgamer1982:

as even budgetgamers replace their pc every 4-5 years orso.. and buy 1200 euro pc's minimum... and 1440p screens quite cheap for quite a long time now... there should nobody be left who does not have at least a 1440p TN screen. (most even IPS)

Why do some enthusiasts kid themselves so much?

Do you really think there aren't people out there spending less than 1,200 on a PC?

Or that there aren't people waiting longer than four or five years to replace something?

Or that there aren't people sometimes *gasp* doing both of those at once!?

Because there are, there are, and there are, respectively.

And a lot of people will buy a good display and hang onto it for a long time. My fifteen year old display would probably cause you a panic attack.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Dutchgamer1982:

even in 2016 only like 10-15% of gamers still would go for 1080p.. today 1080p is extinct games released now should not even support it anymore.

Meanwhile, back in reality, you can collectively add the number of users of 1440p and 4K together... and then double them... and it's still less than the number of users on 1080p. Of course, most of those older panels and not directly representative of what's selling today, but a disparity like that today does not paint a picture of "1080p was 10% to 15% of sales" almost a decade ago. Especially if you're simultaneously pushing a narrative that people replace them every five years at most. Your own claims don't work together.

oh those peoples excist.. we call them causuals.. barely better than console kids.
they are the 29 other kids in a class who would not be class president and mensa club members... who did go clubbing and spend most their money on other things.. and only were allowed by mommy to play 30 minutes a day... or who only turn on their console occationally before the footballmatch after dinner and work..
and who likely never ever opened a pc case nor ever wrote a single line of code..

gamer is a specific term.. that sadly the marked has been polluted by so many causuals now also using computers unlike the early 90s.. and that developers have forced multiplatform crap so the mentality of console kids as dumbed down the products.. unlike until like 2010.. and that now the whole third world also wants to run the most mdoern things instead of just sticking to running 15 year old products and wait for todays stuff to become cheap enough like they should (I strongly oppose regional pricing)

in the good old days games were made cutting edge.. basicly even if you owned the best hardware so that 4090 and the best cpu like even beyond an amd 7950x3d.. and spend 10k on your treadripper system.. even than games released today would run at best at MEDIUM settings.. and would flat out refuse to run on ANY hardware no matter how expensive older than 4 years.. likely anything less than an 3070.. forget it..
and they would also not cater to a causual or multiplatform audience which ment they were better made, and much nicer to play as they had steep learning curves, lot more budget for writers and much less for advertisment.ee
there is a reason the games from that era are the best ever made.. they were made for true gamers.. like movies.. once it starts to cater to the general masses.. it becomes causualised dumbed down crap.

and yes that hardware utilisation went WAY further than just "eye candy" what pc gaming often is reduced to now... with so much more grafical and cpu power... imagine the type of features games could have..
just a small sample. morrowind had handdesigned maps and much more abilities and spells, oblivion had most of them removed cause "consoles cannot handle that kind of calculations" projectile calculations, levitation..and skyrim ha.. it crashes if you even try running it over 60fps...
all the while not a single new thing has been written no storyline, no book all is copypasted from morrowind.. with basicly a shinier cover while more and more content gets ripped out..


and why? cause it has to run on consoles and potato pc...

oh and all those unkillable characters.. fasttravel aka the handhelding aka limitation of freedom true gamers hate.. well console players and casuals unlike true gamers don't want to spend 400 hours reading manuals and forums before even plaing a single hour... they want to just start play 30 minutes and log out.. instant gratification so it must be dumbed down.

nothing bad with having older stuff... but whats wrong with third world countries with pc's that are 20 years behind also playing the same games we did 20 years...

aka MODERN games don't have to suppoer 1080p.. cause by the time they would run on the third world computers.. we be 20 years in the future.. and they would have the same 1440p screens

[_I_]

https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/

1920 x 1080 = 57%
2560 x 1440 = 19%

most common multimon is 2x 1080p
and other, mixing res, or maybe a vertical

[Dutchgamer1982]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Illusion of Progress:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Dutchgamer1982:

as even budgetgamers replace their pc every 4-5 years orso.. and buy 1200 euro pc's minimum... and 1440p screens quite cheap for quite a long time now... there should nobody be left who does not have at least a 1440p TN screen. (most even IPS)

Why do some enthusiasts kid themselves so much?

Do you really think there aren't people out there spending less than 1,200 on a PC?

Or that there aren't people waiting longer than four or five years to replace something?

Or that there aren't people sometimes *gasp* doing both of those at once!?

Because there are, there are, and there are, respectively.

And a lot of people will buy a good display and hang onto it for a long time. My fifteen year old display would probably cause you a panic attack.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Dutchgamer1982:

even in 2016 only like 10-15% of gamers still would go for 1080p.. today 1080p is extinct games released now should not even support it anymore.

Meanwhile, back in reality, you can collectively add the number of users of 1440p and 4K together... and then double them... and it's still less than the number of users on 1080p. Of course, most of those older panels and not directly representative of what's selling today, but a disparity like that today does not paint a picture of "1080p was 10% to 15% of sales" almost a decade ago. Especially if you're simultaneously pushing a narrative that people replace them every five years at most. Your own claims don't work together.

GOOD screens should be kept.. FOR RETROGAMING
I still weep I ever gave away for free my 21inch 1600x1200 inlyama 120hz trinitron
never ever have I seen anything close to it for sale online anywhere..

oh how I would love to rebuild my 2000s pc with that screen and play my xp games on cdrom as they were ment to.

but 1080p screens are not GOOD screens.. I can get how you keep one with a vga port for retrogaming if you can't buy a good crt.. but for modern computers.. no an 1080p screen is trash you only use cause your real screen broke.

an ips 1440p screen costs only 150 euro now.. EVERYBODY should be easely able to afford that.
***your a kid? do a garagesale even at 8yo I made back in the 90s easely 200 euro in a single day that way
***not the selling type? np, do chores.. for friends and family, I got like 2 euro for repairing a leak in a bike, 5 euro for washing and cleaning a car... by always begging family for odd jobs I managed to add to my pocketmoney considerably..
***family to poor/greedy to give you chores for money? : np go walk dogs for money.. place adds at your local supermarket/neighbourhood app.. they won't let kids babysit.. but many kids get like 20 euro just to feed peoples cat when they are a week on holiday and like 5 euro to walk peoples dogs halve an hour.
**bad neighbourhood? np... most stores have save actions like with each 15 euro of x you get a sticker.. sometimes these are toys that kids find desirable.. splended.. you can sell those! even online if you want to. in other cases they are like per 25 euro get a sticker.. 20 stickers gets you either 10 euro cash or a box full of groceries.. or a nice kitchenknife or some other item.. both those items and those stickers can be sold online as people want to complete the set.. and many not even collect those actions for well if it takes 25x20 in 2 weeks time most single people wont never ever shop enough to get even 1 item.. so you can get MANY stickers/items/toys by just asking peoples points at the entrace of stores

and thats all "ass a kid"
once you hit 12.. it becomes even easier...
at 12 you may get a job as a deliverer of newspapers/advertisements..
newspapers are each morning mo-saturday, advertisements you often get delivered as a big pile on monday and you have to deliver them before the end of the week.
it takes about 30-60 minutes a day 6 days a week.. and pays about 10-20 euro a week.

when your 13 you can start working in a supermarket.. while for under 15yo while the law limits you to working just 8 hours a week on that age most supermarkets pay about 5 euro an hour so thats easely 40 euro a week.

at 14 you earn about the same..

at 15 your minimumwage start going up to 7 an hour and your allowed to work more hours (2hr a day on weekdays and 8hr a day on saturday & sunday)

and from there it only goes up and up.... so you REALLY have no excuse to not own an 1440p monitor..