Looking to upgrade from i5 8600k

[Bing Chilling]

So first off ill mention im in canada so i use canadian websites and currency
it's far to expensive to import US products and used market isn't great here.

anyways with that out of the way, im willing to spend about $300 (give or take 100$)
i was looking at the r5 5600 and a MSI B550 mobo (after tax they are $377.00 CAD)

i know these platforms on are on end of life, but AM5 is quite abit more
atleast on amazon and newegg, i'm fine with intel too but i haven't seen anything
that beats the above offer.

Are there other better deals i should be looking at that are based in canada?
(or atleast if i import them are they going to be cheaper, duty tax and import tax is insane)

This build is purely for gaming i will mention, i don't do any production.
so gaming performance is my main goal.

[Karumati]

Bing Chilling původně napsal:

Karumati původně napsal:

h610 motherboard with kf processor is a waste of processor's potential

sure, but it's still faster stock then the 5600 for the same price
i'm just curious to know if that performance gain is worth going with such a limited mobo

have you checked performance with h610 ? most people put this kind of cpu's on z motherboards

[Bing Chilling]

Karumati původně napsal:

Bing Chilling původně napsal:

sure, but it's still faster stock then the 5600 for the same price
i'm just curious to know if that performance gain is worth going with such a limited mobo

have you checked performance with h610 ? most people put this kind of cpu's on z motherboards

at stock it shouldn't matter. i know most people put k series boards on Z series motherboards

(i have a k series 8th gen with a z series mobo to oc)

[Karumati]

Bing Chilling původně napsal:

Karumati původně napsal:

have you checked performance with h610 ? most people put this kind of cpu's on z motherboards

at stock it shouldn't matter. i know most people put k series boards on Z series motherboards

(i have a k series 8th gen with a z series mobo to oc)

even in stock h boards will be holding you back by not allowing proper ram speeds, being very limited by vrm

[Bing Chilling]

Karumati původně napsal:

Bing Chilling původně napsal:

at stock it shouldn't matter. i know most people put k series boards on Z series motherboards

(i have a k series 8th gen with a z series mobo to oc)

even in stock h boards will be holding you back by not allowing proper ram speeds, being very limited by vrm

it does support XMP (upto 3200mhz)

but yes the VRM's would be the main concern

overall the better buy i guess is the 5600 for the price with a b550

[Karumati]

Bing Chilling původně napsal:

Karumati původně napsal:

even in stock h boards will be holding you back by not allowing proper ram speeds, being very limited by vrm

it does support XMP (upto 3200mhz)

but yes the VRM's would be the main concern

overall the better buy i guess is the 5600 for the price with a b550

waiting a bit longer to have more budget would be better option than going for 5600

[Bing Chilling]

Karumati původně napsal:

Bing Chilling původně napsal:

it does support XMP (upto 3200mhz)

but yes the VRM's would be the main concern

overall the better buy i guess is the 5600 for the price with a b550

waiting a bit longer to have more budget would be better option than going for 5600

i have the money i just don't want to spend more then 400$ on both the cpu and mobo

the 5800x3d you mentioned is only 30% faster for double what im paying
to me that isn't worth it and i set a personal budget of 400$ for both

if i wanted the absolute best i'd just go buy it
i want to buy a good upgrade for the price that i put.
and i have found the best bang for buck apparently already in my initial post.

not trying to be rude but it's not helpful to say "save up" when i put a budget i want to stay within

[Bing Chilling]

anyways i'm going to un sub from this as i've found my answer.

[Illusion of Progress]

Bing Chilling původně napsal:

are H610 motherboards worth even considering?

That I can't answer as I'm not as familiar with Intel's side of thing motherboard/chipset-wise other than knowing the mid tier chipset still keeps things more locked down in regards to RAM than AMD's does.

However, my knee-jerk reaction would be to say that unless the VRM of the particular board limits the CPU from boosting enough (it may), and as long as a particular board meets my connectivity/bandwidth needs, then it should be fine using a low chipset board. I think a lot of people put a higher priority on status rather than "does it or does it not sufficiently meet my needs".

After all, you're working with a budget. And the best that fits within that budget is ultimately going to be your best option. The fact that it isn't as good as something more expensive is neither here nor there.

[Tonepoet]

Well, the M.S.I. PRO B760M-P[www.amazon.ca] is Amazon's choice for an LGA 1700 D.D.R. 4 board and only costs $140. There are cheaper motherboards, but the price is relatively good for what it is I think there's a reason that one is Amazon's choice.

You can buy an intel i5-12600kf from Newegg Canada's ebay account for just $214[www.ebay.ca] ($5 of that is shipping). 140 + 214 = 354.

Assuming the taxes are around 10%, which is high by U.S. standards (I'm not sure about Canada) you spend $389. The 12600kf gets a 27.1% uplift in combined synthetic benchmarks from technical city versus a 5600[technical.city], and you have an upgrade path forward to 13th and 14th gen. intel chips.

You might also consider the i5 12400f. It is 12% weaker than the Ryzen 5600[technical.city], but it only costs $170 at amazon canada[www.amazon.ca] instead of $200 bringing you closer to the $300 budget, and still gets a 91% uplift from the 8600k[technical.city] according to technical city, and since we have an upgrade path forward maybe it'd be better not to spend as much on the upgrade now so we could spend more on an upgrade later as 13th and 14th gen. chips depricate in value. Plus since the 12400f isn't as valuable, it won't depricate as much in the first place, and you'll get more of an uplift when you do upgrade to a 13th or 14th gen chip.

140+170= $310 +31 = 341.

We're leaving AM4 behind at any rate. A 12600kf is a bit stronger than a 5700x[technical.city], but it has an upgrade path forward.

Passmark Gaming[www.cpubenchmark.net] scores:

• i5 12600kf 4,931
  
• Ryzen 5600 4,610
  
• Ryzen 5600x 4,483
  
• i5 12400f 4,120
  
• Ryzen 5700x 4,093
  
• Ryzen 5600G 3,356
  
• Ryzen 5700g 3,122
  
• Ryzen 5700 3,100

Something stinks about the 5700 variants scoring so low since they are supposed to be higher up the stack and are generally regarded as better chips than the 5600 variants but it is what it is.

In any case, we're obviously leaving AM4 behind. Yes, AM4 and LGA1700 are both dead platforms, but while AM4 is deader than a doornail, LGA1700 has the potential to have new life breathed into it and fly like a phoenix rising from the ashes later down the line if you start from 12th gen. Plus if you decide you want to upgrade to D.D.R. 5 for some reason, you would only need a new motherboard, rather than a motherboard/cpu combo. Granted, I don't see much sense in upgrading motherboards to upgrade R.A.M., but not the C.P.U., but it can be done.

12600kf or 12400f. It's your computer so you can mull between the two.

Should be noted that a A 5600 costs $190, and there are a few sub $100 AM4 motherboards on Amazon.ca, but I really think having the path forward from 12th gen. to 14th gen. is the way forward here[www.msi.com].

[BOBTOMAS]

CPU
Intel Core i5-13400F 2.5 GHz 10-Core Processor +-$201.99

CPU Cooler
Deepcool CASTLE 240EX A-RGB 69.34 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler +-$109.99

Motherboard
MSI PRO Z790-P WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard +-$209.99

Memory
G.Skill Ripjaws S5 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL30 Memory +-$91.99

Storage
Western Digital Blue SN580 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive +-$49.99

Video Card
MSI VENTUS 3X OC GeForce RTX 4060 Ti 8 GB Video Card +-$399.00

Case
Deepcool CC560 ARGB ATX Mid Tower Case +-$61.33

Power Supply
Thermaltake Toughpower 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply +-$89.99

Operating System
Microsoft Windows 11 Home OEM - DVD 64-bit

[Bing Chilling]

Tonepoet původně napsal:

Well, the MSI PRO B760M-P[www.amazon.ca] is Amazon's choice for an LGA 1700 DDR 4 board and only costs $140. There are cheaper motherboards, but the price is relatively good for what it is I think there's a reason that one is Amazon's choice.

You can buy an intel i5-12600kf from Newegg Canada's ebay account for just $214 ($5 of that is shipping). 140 + 214 = 354.

Assuming the taxes are around 10%, which is high by U.S. standards (I'm not sure about Canada) you spend $389. The 12600kf gets a 27.1% uplift in combined synthetic benchmarks from technical city versus a 5600[technical.city], and you have an upgrade path forward to 13th and 14th gen. intel chips.

You might also consider the i5 12400f. It is 12% weaker than the Ryzen 5600[technical.city], but it only costs https://www.amazon.ca/Intel-12400F-Desktop-Processor-Cache/dp/B09NPJRDGD/ instead of $200 bringing you closer to the $300 budget, and still gets a 91% uplift from the 8600k[technical.city] according to technical city, and since we have an upgrade path forward maybe it'd be better not to spend as much on the upgrade now so we could spend more on an upgrade later as 13th and 14th gen. chips depricate in value. Plus since the 12400f isn't as valuable, it won't depricate as much in the first place, and you'll get more of an uplift when you do upgrade to a 13th or 14th gen chip.

140+170= $310 +31 = 341.

We're leaving AM4 behind at any rate. A 12600kf is a bit stronger than a 5700x[technical.city], but it has an upgrade path forward.

Passmark Gaming[www.cpubenchmark.net] scores:

• i5 12600kf 4,931
  
• Ryzen 5600 4,610
  
• Ryzen 5600x 4,483
  
• i5 12400f 4,120
  
• Ryzen 5700x 4,093
  
• Ryzen 5600G 3,356
  
• Ryzen 5700g 3,122
  
• Ryzen 5700 3,100

Something stinks about the 5700 variants scoring so low since they are supposed to be higher up the stack and are generally regarded as better chips than the 5600 variants but it is what it is.

In any case, we're obviously leaving AM4 behind. Yes, AM4 and LGA1700 are both dead platforms, but while AM4 is deader than a doornail, LGA1700 has the potential to have new life breathed into it and fly like a phoenix rising from the ashes later down the line if you start from 12th gen. Plus if you decide you want to upgrade to D.D.R. 5 for some reason, you would only need a new motherboard, rather than a motherboard/cpu combo. Granted, I don't see much sense in upgrading motherboards to upgrade R.A.M., but not the C.P.U., but it can be done.

12600kf or 12400f. It's your computer so you can mull between the two.

Should be noted that a A 5600 costs $190, and there are a few sub $100 AM4 motherboards on Amazon.ca, but I really think having the path forward from 12th gen. to 14th gen. is the way forward here.

well that's strange the last time i checked on new egg the 12600kf was stupid expensive (i guess they go on sale alot)

though that motherboard "looks" pretty skimpy
but it has good specs on the MSI website.
(honestly with motherboards idk if a vrm heat sink matters much)
and you're right it may have a upgrade path of some kind while AM4 doesn't

also taxes here are 12% so the cpu would be $234.08 cad + $156.79 for mobo = $390.87
so that is right up against the 400$ . nice find.

[Karumati]

Bing Chilling původně napsal:

Tonepoet původně napsal:

Well, the MSI PRO B760M-P[www.amazon.ca] is Amazon's choice for an LGA 1700 DDR 4 board and only costs $140. There are cheaper motherboards, but the price is relatively good for what it is I think there's a reason that one is Amazon's choice.

You can buy an intel i5-12600kf from Newegg Canada's ebay account for just $214 ($5 of that is shipping). 140 + 214 = 354.

Assuming the taxes are around 10%, which is high by U.S. standards (I'm not sure about Canada) you spend $389. The 12600kf gets a 27.1% uplift in combined synthetic benchmarks from technical city versus a 5600[technical.city], and you have an upgrade path forward to 13th and 14th gen. intel chips.

You might also consider the i5 12400f. It is 12% weaker than the Ryzen 5600[technical.city], but it only costs https://www.amazon.ca/Intel-12400F-Desktop-Processor-Cache/dp/B09NPJRDGD/ instead of $200 bringing you closer to the $300 budget, and still gets a 91% uplift from the 8600k[technical.city] according to technical city, and since we have an upgrade path forward maybe it'd be better not to spend as much on the upgrade now so we could spend more on an upgrade later as 13th and 14th gen. chips depricate in value. Plus since the 12400f isn't as valuable, it won't depricate as much in the first place, and you'll get more of an uplift when you do upgrade to a 13th or 14th gen chip.

140+170= $310 +31 = 341.

We're leaving AM4 behind at any rate. A 12600kf is a bit stronger than a 5700x[technical.city], but it has an upgrade path forward.

Passmark Gaming[www.cpubenchmark.net] scores:

• i5 12600kf 4,931
  
• Ryzen 5600 4,610
  
• Ryzen 5600x 4,483
  
• i5 12400f 4,120
  
• Ryzen 5700x 4,093
  
• Ryzen 5600G 3,356
  
• Ryzen 5700g 3,122
  
• Ryzen 5700 3,100

Something stinks about the 5700 variants scoring so low since they are supposed to be higher up the stack and are generally regarded as better chips than the 5600 variants but it is what it is.

In any case, we're obviously leaving AM4 behind. Yes, AM4 and LGA1700 are both dead platforms, but while AM4 is deader than a doornail, LGA1700 has the potential to have new life breathed into it and fly like a phoenix rising from the ashes later down the line if you start from 12th gen. Plus if you decide you want to upgrade to D.D.R. 5 for some reason, you would only need a new motherboard, rather than a motherboard/cpu combo. Granted, I don't see much sense in upgrading motherboards to upgrade R.A.M., but not the C.P.U., but it can be done.

12600kf or 12400f. It's your computer so you can mull between the two.

Should be noted that a A 5600 costs $190, and there are a few sub $100 AM4 motherboards on Amazon.ca, but I really think having the path forward from 12th gen. to 14th gen. is the way forward here.

well that's strange the last time i checked on new egg the 12600kf was stupid expensive (i guess they go on sale alot)

though that motherboard "looks" pretty skimpy
but it has good specs on the MSI website.
(honestly with motherboards idk if a vrm heat sink matters much)
and you're right it may have a upgrade path of some kind while AM4 doesn't

also taxes here are 12% so the cpu would be $234.08 cad + $156.79 for mobo = $390.87
so that is right up against the 400$ . nice find.

they are playing with prices, quite common scummy practice on places like amazon,
i have wireless headphones there on wish list and they go from 370 to 270 and back

[Tonepoet]

Effe, we're only looking at motherboards and C.P.Us., and have a budget of $400 C.A.D. including tax.

Well, on the main newegg website they're always doing sales 'n deals, including daily shell shockers. You should probably buy directly from newegg though[www.newegg.ca]. They don't charge the shipping fee their ebay account does.

Also, the motherboard may very well be skimpy, but I mean, I'd rather cut down on the motherboard than anything else in a build if we have a budget.

I don't know how much cooling vrms need either, but I think they sell small stick on heatsinks for the you might consider buying[www.amazon.ca] if that proves to be a problem. I'm not sure if those are the best ones or anything.

Or you could buy this 100 piece set[www.amazon.ca] and hermally conductive double stick ttape[www.amazon.ca] or glue[www.amazon.ca]. Not sure if that'd work. My guess is that the V.R.Ms. would run hotter than the tape is designed for. Still it's an idea at least.

At any rate, you're on a tight budget, and beggars can't be choosers. :-P A $200 C.A.D. Mo. Bo. definitely breaks the bank.

Granted, there are other mo. bos. in the $120 range, but I think the B760 chipset is why that one is so popular? I'm assuming higher digits are better and that B is better than H.

Anyway, I am glad to have been of assistance.

[Illusion of Progress]

Tonepoet původně napsal:

Passmark Gaming[www.cpubenchmark.net] scores:

• i5 12600kf 4,931
  
• Ryzen 5600 4,610
  
• Ryzen 5600x 4,483
  
• i5 12400f 4,120
  
• Ryzen 5700x 4,093
  
• Ryzen 5600G 3,356
  
• Ryzen 5700g 3,122
  
• Ryzen 5700 3,100

Something stinks about the 5700 variants scoring so low since they are supposed to be higher up the stack and are generally regarded as better chips than the 5600 variants but it is what it is.

This is an example of "synthetics being synthetic".

The same thing happens in their ranking with the 5600X3D topping the 5800X3D, and the 7900X3D topping the 7800X3D (the 7800X3D is the faster one if you're not aware). I speculated on what was possibly going on when I originally saw that because of what was a consistent trend in each example.

All of these supposed "faster but should be slower" models have something in common. 5600X3D over 5800X3D, 5600 over 5700X. 7900X3D over 7800X3D. What's the recurring theme? They are equipped with six core CCDs and are topping their eight core CCD counterparts. So what we might be able to presume is that Passmark is arriving at its ranking by simply dividing certain specs (likely L3 cache) per core and then coming away with the conclusion the hex core CCD models are faster because it has more cache per core... even though this is not how it typically works and not how they perform in real world rankings.

Here's what Passmark states on how they weight this gaming ranking.[www.cpubenchmark.net] Bold is my emphasis.

"Some things that make a CPU good for gaming are:

Having at least 4 CPU cores, but more than 16 is overkill (for now...)
Being a desktop or laptop chip. Server and Mobile/Embedded CPUS have different design goals in mind.
Being a x86 chip (not ARM or Apple).
Having a single threaded score as high as possible.
Having large amount of CPU cache.

How is the Gaming score calculated? The Gaming Score is a composite average of the Single-Threaded test along with the Prime and Physics test scores. The overall Gaming Score also factors in the size of CPU L3 cache, the larger amount of cache the better. These tests and factors were chosen as they are representative of current game design."

So yes, it's seemingly doing something along the lines of what I guessed. *sigh*

It gets worse though. It states it's also highly weighting the single core metric, and this makes sense normally, but their single metric is also a bit flawed in the opposite way because it demonstrably doesn't take cache into account at all[www.cpubenchmark.net] (and this sounds awfully familiar[chipsandcheese.com]). So it seems like their answer here is to take a flawed metric, and then combine it with a flawed metric in the opposite direction, and hope it balances it out or something... I guess? That's wild.

If something has identifiable flaws, and if something doesn't match up with real world performance, then it's not an accurate representation of reality.