Post problems you had when using Linux (Mint)

[[unassigned]]

Thinking of finally getting off windows. Been using windows since 3.1 (you had to manually launch it from DOS), the ONLY thing i get out of using it is compatibility, basically everything is made to run on windows.

After watching some videos, i'm thinking of fully switching to Mint and i think most of my needs can be met. I'm a generalist game dev and very rarely play new AAA/AA games on release but generally prefer older games.

SO... I'm basically looking for issues you've had that i haven't considered, like painful issues with drivers... anything that made you regret the switch and go crawling back to windows

[Omega]

If you have Intel or AMD hardware, specifically the graphics card, everything will just work.

If you have an Nvidia GPU you will have to install the Nvidia drivers. Do NOT install the drivers from the Nvidia website, download them via your distro repositories.

If you are running very recent hardware you will want to look for something more up-to-date than Linux Mint.

[Angry Gandalf]

Do your self a favor, and don't change to Linux, especially if you are a gamer.
Linux users will tell you, that you can use your GPU with all games exactly like on Windows.
Truth however looks different.
You are limited BIG TIME, on almost every game, not to speak about the crashes and error warnings and whatnot.

Linux will be ready for gaming in aprox 20-30 years.
Hang on there.

[Tonepoet]

Mint didn't have the wi-fi drivers I needed preinstalled when I tried it, and I couldn't figure out how to install the ones I found. This isn't a matter of driver support being bad on linux generally speaking. Ubuntu does have those drivers, and Mint is (or was) based on Ubuntu, so mint removed them as a surplusage.

Default Mint is also like, one of the words distros. for games performance due to the cinnamon desktop environment for some reason. LXQT is apparently one of the best but lubuntu is just too stripped down. I settled on Kubuntu as an acceptable compromise.

Originally posted by Angry Gandalf:

Do your self a favor, and don't change to Linux, especially if you are a gamer.
Linux users will tell you, that you can use your GPU with all games exactly like on Windows.
Truth however looks different.
You are limited BIG TIME, on almost every game, not to speak about the crashes and error warnings and whatnot.

Linux will be ready for gaming in aprox 20-30 years.
Hang on there.

Linux is fickle and has gotchas people don't tell you about. There are a few things you should do to optimize your performance on linux[fosspost.org], like disabling the desktop compositor and manually changing your C.P.U. governor from Ondemand to Performance. You might also want to pick a distro. specifically optimized for playing games[itsfoss.com], such as Draugher O.S.[draugeros.org]

I'm not going to say it's 1:1 just as good, even if you do all of this stuff, since I have not done comparative testing, but the cost of a proper legal Windows 11 license is $140, and with that kind of cash to spare you can just buy more expensive hardware to brute force better performance. Rumor has it that Microsoft is going to switch to a subscription model too. Under no circumstances would I pay a subscription fee just to use my own computer.

None. Zilch. Nada. I'd sooner switch back to Mac O.S. 9 than do that. >_>

[Omega]

Originally posted by Angry Gandalf:

Do your self a favor, and don't change to Linux, especially if you are a gamer.
Linux users will tell you, that you can use your GPU with all games exactly like on Windows.
Truth however looks different.
You are limited BIG TIME, on almost every game, not to speak about the crashes and error warnings and whatnot.

Linux will be ready for gaming in aprox 20-30 years.
Hang on there.

Incorrect, you are not "limited" in any way. Performance is fine, the open source Intel and AMD drivers compete with, sometimes even outperform, their closed Windows counterparts.

Almost all games run just fine, it is only those with invasive DRM and anti-cheat which systematically have issues.

Stability is also fine, crashes do not regularly happen. It is comparable to, or better than Windows.

Originally posted by Tonepoet:

Mint didn't have the wi-fi drivers I needed preinstalled when I tried it, and I couldn't figure out how to install the ones I found. This isn't a matter of driver support being bad on linux generally speaking. Ubuntu does have those drivers, and Mint is (or was) based on Ubuntu, so mint removed them as a surplusage.

The drivers and firmware are included in/with the kernel. Linux Mint does not remove any drivers.

What happened is that you installed Linux Mint, which is based on Ubuntu LTS and then compared it to the latest version of Ubuntu. You were running old software on new hardware, so yes, of course it then lacks the drivers for your hardware did not exist when the software released.

Originally posted by Tonepoet:

Default Mint is also like, one of the words distros. for games performance due to the cinnamon desktop environment for some reason. LXQT is apparently one of the best but lubuntu is just too stripped down. I settled on Kubuntu as an acceptable compromise.

Cinnamon is fine for gaming.

People who judge DEs based on how minimal and light they are percieved to be are clueless. Behind the scenes for these DEs it is all still big old slow X11. With all its limitations and issues, use something modern instead.

Originally posted by Tonepoet:

Linux is fickle and has gotchas people don't tell you about. There are a few things you should do to optimize your performance on linux[fosspost.org], like disabling the desktop compositor and manually changing your C.P.U. governor from Ondemand to Performance. You might also want to pick a distro. specifically optimized for playing games]/url], such as [url]Draugher O.S.[itsfoss.com]

You shouldn't do these things. This is either old or incorrect advice.

On most desktop environments composition is by default already disabled for full-screen apps. The example mentioned in this article, XFCE, does not use composition by default at all. XFCE is also by far one of the least technically advanced full GUIs you can get and is not representative of the major players such as KDE and GNOME. It uses X11, everything else switched over to Wayland already.

How much impact tweaking the CPU governor will make depends on your hardware, it can be anything in between zero difference and massive difference. This same applies to Windows. Also not all CPUs have access to the same profiles, some may not even have any profiles to choose at all. Typically the default balanced performance mode is recommended.

DraugerOS, like many "gaming optimized" distros, has no real benefit over the distro they are based upon. Drauger is mostly just a unicornpuke distro, it does little more than change the default theming of Ubuntu LTS.

[Phénomènes Mystiques]

Linux Mint destroyed Windows, but it still worked. Perhaps Windows didn't like Linux dual boot.

Someone also told me it was fact to install Linux before Windows as this issue can happen using dual boot with internal SATA.

I have had no issues with Linux mobile USB redistributables and Windows.

[Tonepoet]

You're making quite a few assumptions Omega. Assumptions that aren't necessarily sound. You don't know what versions of software I installed or what wifi hardware I had because even I do not remember exactly, although in so saying I must admit perhaps you could be right.

You'd think desktop environments would be updated to automate the process, but a couple of years ago K.D.E's. Kwin compositor was having troubles with stuttering and latency,. They fixed it, but the reason I mention this is that the fix came at its ability to automatically switch the compositor off in full screen mode, so in at least one case, the update did the opposite of what you suggested. Now there's a script which restores that functionality but still, that's something extra you need to install.

Most importantly though, Cinnamon's reportedly poor performance isn't just based on some supposition that lightweight desktop environments are better. It's based on testing.

Granted, some of the testing is from rather a long time ago. JeFi2's results, based on Dirt, Bioshock Infinite and Rise of the Tombraider[docs.google.com] are from 5 years ago, which were shown in the tips article I provided earlier. However, that was not the only source I consulted Mumbling Hugo conducted a relatively extensive test of various desktop environments just 11 months ago based on Tomb Raider 2013, Red Dead Redemption and, and mint still performed rather poorly. Mumbling Hugo was testing both Wayland and X11 desktop environments too. He mentioned something aboug Gnome and Wayland running only on wayland, and only with Assassin's Creed and R.D.R.2. since wayland is better, but this came at the cost of testing Tomb Raider 'cause he couldn't get that older working with his Nvidia card on Wayland though.

Now, unless something has happened within the past year, which is very well possible, Cinnamon has some of the worst performance for games. That's highly relevant to this topic because cinnamon is the default desktop environment of mint, made specifically for mint and I never hear of anybody using it outside of mint.

However, with that having been said, that's not a condemnation of Mint as a whole. You can change your desktop environment, or even download .iso files for mint to make fresh installations of mint with different desktop environments preinstalled instead of Cinammon. It seems to me that until we get confirmation of some reason to believe it has improved, gamers who want to start using Linux Mint should use the Xfce based version, and make sure the compositor is off. Xfce and K.D.E. with the compositor off seem to be among the better performing environments, (although there is no K.D.E. .iso for mint).

Again, maybe cinnamon is fixed, but we know Xfce is a safe bet, and somebody is much more likely to "crawl back to Windows" if they see their system is taking a big performance hit for some unknown reason. Best not to risk that on first impression.

Insofar as the desktop compositor is concerned, is there ever a practical reason to have it on, or is it purely a cosmetic thing? I'd just as soon leave it off entirely if it's purely cosmetic.

[[unassigned]]

thanks for all this feedback folks, great stuff (if a bit contradictory :P). Food for thought... Keep debating though, big fan of dialectical synthesis

[Omega]

This stuff is both my job and hobby, I have a fairly reasonable understanding of how this stuff works.

Originally posted by Tonepoet:

You're making quite a few assumptions Omega. Assumptions that aren't necessarily sound. You don't know what versions of software I installed or what wifi hardware I had because even I do not remember exactly, although in so saying I must admit perhaps you could be right.

Based on what you said above it is a guaranteed to be correct assumption. This is just how these specific systems works.

Originally posted by Tonepoet:

You'd think desktop environments A couple of years ago K.D.E's. Kwin compositor was having troubles with stuttering and latency,. They fixed it, but the reason I mention this is that the fix came at its ability to automatically switch the compositor off in full screen mode, so in at least one case, the update did the opposite of what you suggested. Now there's a script which restores that functionality.

Bugs happen.

There is no need to switch the compositor off, pretty much all DEs today support fullscreen unredirect.

Originally posted by Tonepoet:

Granted, some of the testing is from rather a long time ago. JeFi2's results, based on Dirt, Bioshock Infinite and Rise of the Tombraider[docs.google.com] are from 5 years ago, which were shown in the tips article I provided earlier. However, that was not the only source I consulted Mumbling Hugo conducted a relatively extensive test of various desktop environments just 11 months ago based on Tomb Raider 2013, Red Dead Redemption and, and mint still performed rather poorly. Mumbling Hugo was testing both Wayland and X11 desktop environments too. He mentioned something aboug Gnome and Wayland running only on wayland, and only with Assassin's Creed and R.D.R.2. since wayland is better, but this came at the cost of testing Tomb Raider 'cause he couldn't get that older working with his Nvidia card on Wayland.

These are utterly miniscule and unnoticable differences in performance. The benchmarks all originate from unreputable sources and were performed through unscientific methods.

The real difference in performance between most DEs is utterly miniscule and not worth arguing over, and it should most certainly not be messured when picking a distro for it makes no real difference.

Originally posted by Tonepoet:

Now, unless something has happened within the past year, which is very well possible, Cinnamon has some of the worst performance for games. That's highly relevant to this topic because cinnamon is the default desktop environment of mint, made specifically for mint and I never hear of anybody using it outside of mint.

Once again, a ~1% difference across all tested DEs in this specific linked source is not worth talking about for it is an utterly meaningless amount.

Originally posted by Tonepoet:

However, with that having been said, that's not a condemnation of Mint as a whole. You can change your desktop environment, or even download .iso files for mint to make fresh installations of mint with different desktop environments preinstalled instead of Cinammon. It seems to me that until we get confirmation of some reason to believe it has improved, gamers who want to start using Linux Mint should use the Xfce based version, and make sure the compositor is off. Xfce and K.D.E. with the compositor off seem to be among the better performing environments, (although there is no K.D.E. .iso for mint).

And again. Disabling composition makes no real difference, it is not 2014 anymore.

Originally posted by Tonepoet:

Insofar as the desktop compositor is concerned, is there ever a practical reason to have it on, or is it purely a cosmetic thing? I'd just as soon leave it off entirely if it's purely cosmetic.

Under X the compositor is responsible for adding graphical effects such as window shadows and anti-aliasing and vsync.

Under Wayland it is the thing acting as the display server, it puts a picture on the screen and is what all applications connect with.

X is dying, it is getting phased out by almost all DEs in favor of Wayland.

[[unassigned]]

Originally posted by MintWebsite:

LTS strategy

Linux Mint 21.3 will receive security updates until 2027.

Until 2024, future versions of Linux Mint will use the same package base as Linux Mint 21.3, making it trivial for people to upgrade.

Until 2024, the development team won't start working on a new base and will be fully focused on this one.

so it looks like current version is due a major update? would this be comparible to a windows 10 -> wwindows 11 update or more like a major update for an os?

[[unassigned]]

Originally posted by smallcat:

drawback of GRUB .

what is GRUB?

[[unassigned]]

Originally posted by smallcat:

The boot loader

ah ok. im fully commiting to linux here so wont really need this, would just use a VM if i REALLY need another os

[Omega]

Originally posted by smallcat:

It was Xfce . The desktop window was pretty . Firefox was working well . I was using Wi Fi so the drivers worked well . Steam was looking great . The games which didnt need Proton ran . A bit slower though . But once i needed the Proton layer it got a nightmare . Also losing the access to BIOS just wiping out the linux partition is a drawback of GRUB .

Do not listen to this guy, he is completely uninformed and does not know what he is talking about. Almost everything he says is false.

He has been posting this exact same story on every Linux thread for a year already.

[A&A]

I had also used Linux Mint around 2 years ago. The out-of-the-box experience wasn't bad. I only had headaches with how to change the mouse and keyboard pooling rate. There was a minor problem with VirtualBox, resizing the window which automatically changes the resolution of the guest OS caused the VM to crash, so I disabled this function. As for the edition, I found MATE to be better than Cinnemon and Xfce. Battery life was a bit longer so that must be a good sign for the CPU/GPU usage.

[C1REX]

I was using Linux exclusively for few years but I'm back to Windows + Mac OS.
Windows actually just works and doesn't consume my time for basic maintenance.
So time consumption and lack of some specific software is why I'm not using Linux any more.

[Peelingspud]

I use Linux Mint everyday, but not for gaming, I have never been able to run games in spite of doing everything that is recommended.
Windows is great for running games for some reason :-) mint...not so much.