Is water cooling better than air cooling?

[Belle Delphine Targaryen!]

Like the AIOs that are seen everywhere these days?

[_I_]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Shaggin'Wagon:

Opprinnelig skrevet av _I_:

coolant is not always water based

Yes it is. All liquids that are in either an AIO or CLC have to have some amount of water in the mixture or it wouldn't be able to transfer heat efficiently enough to be used as a computer cooling system.

There is not a single CLC or AIO in the entire world that has no water in it. It's not produced and does not exist.

where in that statement did i say it was for pc or clc?
https://www.google.com/search?q=non+water+based+coolants&sa=Google+Search&hl=all

this is way off topic from what the op asked

water vs air really depends on the cooler used, and how its installed, along with case airflow

[Shaggin'Wagon]

Opprinnelig skrevet av _I_:

where in that statement did i say it was for pc or clc?

Your own words right here:

Opprinnelig skrevet av _I_:

clc uses coolant, not water

It would be better for you if you just wrote a comment admitting that you made a mistake and move on with life.

[Bad 💀 Motha]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Shaggin'Wagon:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Bad 💀 Motha:

Can easily go and compare $200 AIO to a $50 beefier air/tower cooler that is well designed and you'll easily see that $200+ is never going to be worth it, or actually hold up its value in any way shape or form.

The entire point of all of these AIO is to sell you flashy stuff you do not need and people out there gladly paying a good premium for them; and for what?

It's really odd reading your comments. It's as if you haven't read any comments written in this page by me or the other users over the past 6 pages. If you had read those comments then you wouldn't of written that statement.

AIO's definitely do have a purpose: They can allow our modern processors to boost for short durations of time without thermal throttling. Something which is not possible with an air cooler (even the largest ones) once we get in to things like a 12900K, 13900K, 14900K, Ryzen 7950X, etc.

I've used every CPU for the most part that exists for Intel 12th, 13th, 14th Gen as well as AM4 and AM5. You can properly cool ANY of them with just an air tower heat-pipe cooler; just need a very beefy sized one for some of those higher end CPUs is all and have good Case Airflow and such.

Some just prefer the looks of the overall system when using an AIO + RGB and all that jazz and if they don't mind spending the extra money for that, and it does the job, then that's just fine. Most people don't want all that flashy RGB crap.

[Shaggin'Wagon]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Bad 💀 Motha:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Shaggin'Wagon:

It's really odd reading your comments. It's as if you haven't read any comments written in this page by me or the other users over the past 6 pages. If you had read those comments then you wouldn't of written that statement.

AIO's definitely do have a purpose: They can allow our modern processors to boost for short durations of time without thermal throttling. Something which is not possible with an air cooler (even the largest ones) once we get in to things like a 12900K, 13900K, 14900K, Ryzen 7950X, etc.

I've used every CPU for the most part that exists for Intel 12th, 13th, 14th Gen as well as AM4 and AM5. You can properly cool ANY of them with just an air tower heat-pipe cooler; just need a very beefy sized one for some of those higher end CPUs is all and have good Case Airflow and such.

All Air coolers (regardless of their size and thermal capacity) will result in modern many-core top-spec processors thermal throttling and reducing their performance. It is unavoidable and will happen due to the nature of air cooling and how it works.

Most decently sized AIO's (360mm or larger) can handle all modern processors WITHOUT thermal throttling.

So yes: You can run modern many-core CPU's on an air cooler. Yes it will "work". However the processors will run slower on air coolers compared to an AIO and there is no way to avoid that due to physics and how cooling devices function.

I'm going to go back and repeat myself: Your words and the way you write them reads as if you have a strong personal opinion against AIO coolers. And that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But it would be nice if you could try to avoid outright claiming AIO's are bad or do not have a purpose.

Large AIO coolers (360mm or bigger) will outperform the best air coolers always and are superior to all air coolers. That is a FACT and can not be disputed or argued against.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Shaggin'Wagon:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Bad 💀 Motha:

I've used every CPU for the most part that exists for Intel 12th, 13th, 14th Gen as well as AM4 and AM5. You can properly cool ANY of them with just an air tower heat-pipe cooler; just need a very beefy sized one for some of those higher end CPUs is all and have good Case Airflow and such.

All Air coolers (regardless of their size and thermal capacity) will result in modern many-core top-spec processors thermal throttling and reducing their performance. It is unavoidable and will happen due to the nature of air cooling and how it works.

Most decently sized AIO's (360mm or larger) can handle all modern processors WITHOUT thermal throttling.

So yes: You can run modern many-core CPU's on an air cooler. Yes it will "work". However the processors will run slower on air coolers compared to an AIO and there is no way to avoid that due to physics and how cooling devices function.

I'm going to go back and repeat myself: Your words and the way you write them reads as if you have a strong personal opinion against AIO coolers. And that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But it would be nice if you could try to avoid outright claiming AIO's are bad or do not have a purpose.

Large AIO coolers (360mm or bigger) will outperform the best air coolers always and are superior to all air coolers. That is a FACT and can not be disputed or argued against.

aircoolers like

coollers like the upcoming NH-D15 V2 (150 euro)
be quiet! Dark Rock Elite (100 eur0)
Noktua NH-D15 (classic) ((100 euro)
Corsair A115 (90 euro)
be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 5 (90 euro)
Thermaright frost commander 140 (upcoming, but likely be priced around 50 euro)

are just a few examples of a few aircoolers that will be MORE than capable of cooling the 7800X3D or 7950X3D 99% of gamers will buy now without any issues.
as well as the upcoming 9800x3D and 9950X3D

and while NO sane gamer will pick team intel at this day.. that would be like a crazy person who picked an FX amd cpu.. over an 4970k or 5950x in 2016.
but even than..

those above coolers can also more than handle an intel
14900k
14700k
13600k
without issues.

sure you might in that case have to set the fans to max.. and have a decent size case with plenty of fans also on max,,, but sure it will cool it just fine.
and it will still be working 10 years later... an AIO won't even 2 years from now.

[Emrys]

I recommend that you continue to be so wasteful with your energy consumption so that climate change really gets going. Then when a flood hits your house and your PC is underwater, you'll have the perfect water cooling system.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Emrys:

I recommend that you continue to be so wasteful with your energy consumption so that climate change really gets going. Then when a flood hits your house and your PC is underwater, you'll have the perfect water cooling system.

1 not buying in the whole climate nonsense.
"to fight for control by some manupulation"

2 people CAN move you know, and mankind not end if a bunch starve of drown either.

3 I live in the netherlands, I am used to live well below sea level.. and happely do so.. like I said.. you adapt to climate... you don't waste money on resources to prevent it
***♥♥♥♥♥ can easely be raised another 6 meters... thats tripple even the most doomscenario rise of 2 meters in coming 200 years..
->
greenland melting will actually lift my country UP as the weight on the greenland plate pushed downwards... when that weight is gone.. greenlands land will start to rise up.. and with it all thats connected to the same plate... meaning that that the 7 levels that would rise sea levels.. would only translate to a 60cm actual rise for my nation

the southpole fully melting well that would add 65 meters... no simple ♥♥♥♥ can battle that. so yeah that be half my nation under the waves.. like doggerland... but that scenario won't happen for hundreds of years....
we'll loose amsterdam, rotterdam, the hague, but my great great great great great great greeat ... granchildren be happely living near the beaches in Utrecht
or they move to lapland or siberia or canada.. all regions no longer a hostile frozen wilderniss but now fertile pleasant farmland..

4 even if you were a madman and poked a hole in our dikes right now.. joke in on you.. I live in a flat.. so while the water would come to the 2d level.. drowning my lower neighbours.. and likely cut off my electricity, drinking water and internet.. I be high and dry.. just fine..
sure it might take 14-21 days before somebody picks me up to bring me over to the above water part of our nation.. but unlike most I do have always supplies in house to survive 3 months cut off.. just for that scenarior.. the goverment will come to get you.. as they did in 1953.. but it takes time.. you need to be able to sit out that time...

5 I only have flown once in my life, I go everywhere by bike and public transport and I not even OWN a car (I sometimes do rent one but very rarelylike twice a year)
and while I deem the whole vegan diet totally bogus.. I eat much lower amounts of meat than most.. (240grams a week) + fish (160 grams a week) most of that organic btw as is most my food.. I not believe it is any healthier.. but heh guess what I do like to go green.. I just not buy the co2 mania.. call me an old fastion green.. who still only cares about REAL problems like soil erosion, polution and deforestation.. not about some imaginarity problem of how much co2 is in the air around us.
and yeah I have quite a heavy dairy consumption.. but well it's a large chunk goat.. which is vastly less feed per liter of milk than cow milk.
yet all those pink haired climate idiots who go on a cheap flight holiday.. and wear all their plastic clothes.. and eat their highly poluting soyburgers flown in from the other side of the globe.. are trashing historical paintings cause climate..
F off get a life...

[Emrys]

Yes, we are all being manipulated! (Except for some, of course, who have been wearing a tinfoil hat since birth.) My enthusiasm for science is limitless, but my enthusiasm for stupidity is not....

[Dutchgamer1982]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Emrys:

Yes, we are all being manipulated! (Except for some, of course, who have been wearing a tinfoil hat since birth.) My enthusiasm for science is limitless, but my enthusiasm for stupidity is not....

I read science papers tooo a phd.. and a physics teacher remember..

and yeah I USED to be member of clubs like greenpeace and such and even found them WAY to timid.. why protest whale cautching buy an old submarine and sink those bloody whalers..

but ever since all the green movement does is yammer about c02 and annimals need the same rights as people we all need to become veeeegan.. they lost all rights with me.

yes a mayority of scientists today agree that there IS climatechange.. does not make it true.. but I grand you that one..
and while a mayority of scientists do agree human behaviour IS a factor in this change.. the PERCENTAGE of the changed caused by human behavior.. is much upto debate.. nearly halve is not even convinced the mayority of change is by human behavior..
but I grant you most agree human behavior has a "substantial" contribution.. wheither thats 10% of 90% or in between... we leave open..

but now look further.. to other scientists.. : can we prevent it.. here the mayority of scientists agrees NO.. the damage likely already has been done also... here other sciences of sociology (more my terrain) enter.
-> every amount of fossil fuel will be consumed.. anything we not buy will be bought by another person somewhere else on this globe.. all a nation does that refuses it.. is handicapping it's own economy

now as for the actual course of the change.. it is far from certain for example if the gulfstream is disrupted (it is already weakened) than europe suddenly becomes much colder.. basicly back in the iceage.. the opposite of heating up.
we cannot predict the neth sum of all these effects fully.. nor what will happen to each region other than "there be change"

now as for the change.. the VAST mayority of scientists do NOT see climate change as the all out disaster it now made to be.. sure land be lost.. become flooded, deserts.. or just plain to hot or cold for humans to live... but at the same time other places may become more hospitable.. more heat means also more evaporation and rain globally.. and more land thats frozen will warm up and become accesable.. crops that now cannot grow as far south and north crops with much higher energy density.. now could..
a mayority things that at least upto 8 degrees in rise in temperature earth as a whole becomes MORE havitable to humans capable to support MORE of us not less.
->
so a mayority of scientists sees this as a political crisis..NOT a excistential one.


and ofcourse.. with changing climates.. comes the need like always to adapt.. if your nation is going to have longer perioods of draught or rain.. or stronger strorms (there is more energy in the system so those will occur more often globally but again not evenely spread out some get less some get a lot more.) yes extreme weather be more frequent..
and thats why we locally should observe the changes and ADAPT accordingly.

and guess what that adaptation costs MONEY... money your nation won't have if it buys in the whole hoax and is so STUPID to even think it can PREVENT the change,

[Emrys]

Unfortunately, I have to admit that it is probably not possible to survive in the long term with this kind of humanity. Some ignorant populists are currently receiving more support than the smartest people in the world (cheers to the Führer!).

[Shaggin'Wagon]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Dutchgamer1982:

aircoolers like

coollers like the upcoming NH-D15 V2 (150 euro)
be quiet! Dark Rock Elite (100 eur0)
Noktua NH-D15 (classic) ((100 euro)
Corsair A115 (90 euro)
be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 5 (90 euro)
Thermaright frost commander 140 (upcoming, but likely be priced around 50 euro)

are just a few examples of a few aircoolers that will be MORE than capable of cooling the 7800X3D or 7950X3D 99% of gamers will buy now without any issues.

All of those air coolers you just described combined with those processors that you also described would quickly become thermally saturated in as little as 5 minutes or less then trigger thermal throttling.

An AIO would not have those issues.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Emrys:

Unfortunately, I have to admit that it is probably not possible to survive in the long term with this kind of humanity. Some ignorant populists are currently receiving more support than the smartest people in the world (cheers to the Führer!).

mensa 2d level here... smarter than 99.99% of people
stop the obsession with co2.
stop wastting public money on the ilusion the change can be prevented..
teargass down those idiot vandalist actisits... and stop all the panicsowing that let to it in the first place..

and by all means reserve a decet chunk of 5-10% of gdp annually for a climate adaptation fund for your nation.

keyword here ADAPTATION.

no nonsense of "all cars must be EV"
or "all houses must be made co2 neutral"
or "all eu nations must in 2030 emit 20% less than they did in 1990..

[Dutchgamer1982]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Shaggin'Wagon:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Dutchgamer1982:

aircoolers like

coollers like the upcoming NH-D15 V2 (150 euro)
be quiet! Dark Rock Elite (100 eur0)
Noktua NH-D15 (classic) ((100 euro)
Corsair A115 (90 euro)
be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 5 (90 euro)
Thermaright frost commander 140 (upcoming, but likely be priced around 50 euro)

are just a few examples of a few aircoolers that will be MORE than capable of cooling the 7800X3D or 7950X3D 99% of gamers will buy now without any issues.

All of those air coolers you just described combined with those processors that you also described would quickly become thermally saturated in as little as 5 minutes or less then trigger thermal throttling.

An AIO would not have those issues.

not saturated at all..
set their fans at max... have a bigtower case with 9-12 high volume 140mm airflow fans. set those at max too..

and you likely get BETTER performance than an AIO.

(a curstom loop like mine with an 420mm rad, 2x 280mm rad and an 140mm rad... paired with 16 fans.. (8 in push, 8 in pull) + and another 8 high volume fans that suck air in at just higher volume than those that go tgrough rads.. to have positive airpressure.. and create positive airflow)"

yeah that keeps your cpu always at room tempetaure.. or colder.. like 36 degrees is the highest I ever seen under full load..
and thats for gpu AND cpu..

but boy the headache of it breaking down all the time.. not want tht again..

both AIO and a good aircooler perform similair.. often an aircooler will even do better in a large case with plenty of fans.

I had NO gain with an 230 euro 360mm aio over an 150 euro highend aircooler
both had temps of 60-70C

the AIO looked nicer thats why I got it... but well lesson learned just looking better is NOT worth that headache case either..

so in fact AIO are unless you have line an itw or mini itx case.. a TERRIBLE idea.
you gain no performance gain often even a performance loss.. while the think wills till break on you within 2 years.

if you really want cooling you need to go full custom loop... (but again deal with the fact pumps last only 2 years at best)

if not.. stick with aircooling.

aio's are ONLY a thing to consider for extreme small cases where your airflow is crap and you cannof fit many fans.

[Emrys]

Yes, simply hoarding more money has always been the solution to everything. Reminds me of the people back then who sold miracle cures for everything in bottles.

“Only after the last tree has been cut down / Only after the last river has been poisoned / Only after the last fish has been caught / Then will you find that money cannot be eaten.”

(Prophecy of the Cree)

[Dutchgamer1982]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Emrys:

Yes, simply hoarding more money has always been the solution to everything. Reminds me of the people back then who sold miracle cures for everything in bottles.

“Only after the last tree has been cut down / Only after the last river has been poisoned / Only after the last fish has been caught / Then will you find that money cannot be eaten.”

(Prophecy of the Cree)

I like that line
I used to have that line on a greenpeace tshirt too before the greens became all co2 idiots.

don't compare overforestation, soil and water polution and overfishing.. to a NON issue like co2.

and while money in itself is meaningless.. in this cause it goes about what it represents.. labour and resources.. taxing people will mean worse food, worse healthcare.. etc.. it will cost years of life.. as well as lower quality of life..
this is not so bad if you say build a dike with it that lowers the change of a flood from once every year to once every 100000 years.. that protects a million people.

ior to put it otherwise "there is only so much labour and resources you can order the tribesman to give up before they will be unable to hunt enough to eat.. have to little wood to stay warm in winter.. and have to little time to not walk naked under the sky"

to try to prevent climatechange with measures like ev and co2 neutral houses and all that nonsense.. is like sacrificing halve your tribesman by cutting their hearts out on an altar to an idol you call your god.. and tossing your wood and food in the swamp.. to feed imaginairy spirits in the hope that will save you from future harm..

all it will do is weaken you.. so you won't have enough strong warriors to battle the real battle