Is water cooling better than air cooling?

[Belle Delphine Targaryen!]

Like the AIOs that are seen everywhere these days?

[Agent]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Tiberius:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Holografix:

Water and electricity don't mix.

Zero risk of leaking is always better than small risk of leaking.

And for gaming, cpu rarely needs to run all cores at full load, which makes liquid cooling even more pointless

The next thing I want to see is passive cooling so there's no fan noise from my PC.

But in the meantime I'm going to drill a hole in my wall to feed all the cables through and have the PC through the other room.

[Holografix]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Stacked:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Tiberius:

Zero risk of leaking is always better than small risk of leaking.

And for gaming, cpu rarely needs to run all cores at full load, which makes liquid cooling even more pointless

The next thing I want to see is passive cooling so there's no fan noise from my PC.

But in the meantime I'm going to drill a hole in my wall to feed all the cables through and have the PC through the other room.

lol

it's true. air cooling is quite noisy

[VisciousFishes]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από 10Transistor:

I am stating facts. It is a scientific fact that water and electricity do not mix. Why do you refuse to see that and hide behind name calling? You definitely do not like it when someone does not agree with you.

Pure H2O does not conduct electricity. It's the salts and impurities in water that conduct electricity. But, pure H2O (being devoid of salts and impurities) will not conduct electricity.

Impure water has a low resistance which is why toaster in the bath is a bad idea.

https://www.scienceworld.ca/resource/conducting-currents/#:~:text=Salt%20molecules%20are%20made%20of,charged%20particles%20can%20freely%20move.

[Kobs]

I happen to have a very large case (fractal design define 7) and a 3 fan radiator and my temps have never been so low. I don't even worry about it. I also have a drawer full of very large air cooler that I don't use anymore

[Dutchgamer1982]

does water cooling leak : most likely not.

but it does fail in many other ways that can damage your hardware.
***pumps usually last only 1-2 year in my experience.. and you don't always notice imediatly when they do.. if a pump breaks.. your temperatures will rise to insane levels very very quickly.
***replacing pumps is also quite costly.. as most models only are 9-12 months on the martket by the time yours breaks replacement parts are impossible to find...

***compare that to aircooling.. a decent aircooler can easely last a decade.. and EVEN if it's fan fails.. the shear block of metal will at least give some cooling.. and as fans are standardised.. you can easely screw a new fan on the same block

==================================
AIO's sometimes erode your cpu's lid this is invisiable damage as it happens out of sight.. so unless you take it off each month to remove and reapply cooling paste.. it can one day just be a fatal error.
while sure those aio's give warranty and you most likely get a refund for that broken aio.. you most likely WILL NOT get a refund for the cpu they took with them.
====================================
than there is the headache.. as you likely will have to replace pumps or aio every 1-2 years meaning likely 3 times over the lifespan of an average pc.. you will find that sizes and looks change.. so finding a current model that fits in your case will be very hard forcing you to shell out whatever the price is of the 1 or 2 parts that do fit..
add to that.. they most likely will NOT look good.. like your pure white build now has black + red parts in it... terrible...
=====================================
finally the cost the insane cost :
if you don't build your own system.. any rma likely will involve labour costs.=
even stores that offer water cooling services today might no longer a year from now when your first rma will hit.
**stores willing to work on an AIO are plentyfull.. so you can somewhat safetly risk it.
**stores willing to work on an custom loop however are impossible to find.. and expect any rma to add 1000-1500 euro in labour costs.. and thats before they even fixed anything..
==========================

AIO does not notably cool better than a very high quality aircooled solution.
so performance wise AIO does not make sense.
custom loops do give performance gains but they come with an insane pricetag upfront and likely 3000 euro more in costs in labour expenses + begging every store if please they will rma your case..
unless you build your system yourself... stay away far away from custom loops.


so basicly my issue is not so much watercooling leaks and kills your pc..
but that it is an endless moneydrain.. and makes every rma a headache case..

[Mad Scientist]

Honestly I prefer water due to the equipment I use, but I had to pass on water cooling the cpu as apparently most or all had a serious design flaw that resulted in buildup/clogs. So I run a medium size cooler, but I have plans on fabricating a better air cooler.

[Syzygy]

I prefer air for less maintenance and no annoying pump sounds which can be an issue with certain aios.

I only go with water when both airflow is bad (mini itx) + components are being pushed really hard (gaming, overclocking). Sometimes water is the only rational choice, there's good aio's these days too. Just not my preference.

[_I_]

on tower and coolers with heatpipes there is also a tiny chance of them leaking too, if they crack or are bent too much

heatpipes use phase change, and are filled with an alcohol, when heated evaporates absorbing heat, and condensing at the rad, then the liquid flows in the wick to the hot end again
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f0/Heat_Pipe_Mechanism.svg/1280px-Heat_Pipe_Mechanism.svg.png

the copper/silver pipe is not conductive cooling

[Emrys]

No, water cooling is not better than air cooling in the PC sector. The only advantage of water cooling is that the PC is quieter. However, you accept that other components are not cooled as well because you cannot cover everything with water cooling. As far as I know, this is only possible with much more expensive motherboards, where the cooling pipelines are distributed across the entire board. If you have SSD drives, for example, that get hot when in use, they also need to be cooled. The same applies to other hardware that is not installed directly on the board but is in the PC case; it then requires air circulation in the case, so again fans.

Depending on which coolant you use, the water cooling can also break over time because the pipes become clogged with coolant residue and have to be cleaned at great expense (if at all possible).
It is therefore much more sensible to undervolt the hot components a little and in this way reduce the electricity costs at the same time, as the fans can then also work more quietly (win-win).
You should also use more large fans than small ones, as they are quieter in operation because they work at lower speeds.

It is also not recommended to always play games on the highest settings (e.g. Ultra) with as many FPS as possible, unless you are doing benchmark tests and want to find out the limits of your hardware. In any case, you will not be able to play games with these high settings in the long term. I know that this nonsense is often spread on YouTube, for example, but the real intention behind it is that your hardware should break as quickly as possible and you should constantly upgrade, which makes them and their financiers happy, but constantly costs you more. I recommend setting a stable 60 FPS with enough reserves so that the graphics card doesn't have to constantly bungee jump and the latencies don't constantly jump up and down while your PC becomes a furnace and your power supply has to work in the kilowatt range to be able to supply everything accordingly.

[_I_]

complete pc cooled with mineral oil (aka liquid)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUBvWXH1hLs&t=6s

[Dutchgamer1982]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Emrys:

No, water cooling is not better than air cooling in the PC sector. The only advantage of water cooling is that the PC is quieter. However, you accept that other components are not cooled as well because you cannot cover everything with water cooling. As far as I know, this is only possible with much more expensive motherboards, where the cooling pipelines are distributed across the entire board. If you have SSD drives, for example, that get hot when in use, they also need to be cooled. The same applies to other hardware that is not installed directly on the board but is in the PC case; it then requires air circulation in the case, so again fans.

Depending on which coolant you use, the water cooling can also break over time because the pipes become clogged with coolant residue and have to be cleaned at great expense (if at all possible).
It is therefore much more sensible to undervolt the hot components a little and in this way reduce the electricity costs at the same time, as the fans can then also work more quietly (win-win).
You should also use more large fans than small ones, as they are quieter in operation because they work at lower speeds.

It is also not recommended to always play games on the highest settings (e.g. Ultra) with as many FPS as possible, unless you are doing benchmark tests and want to find out the limits of your hardware. In any case, you will not be able to play games with these high settings in the long term. I know that this nonsense is often spread on YouTube, for example, but the real intention behind it is that your hardware should break as quickly as possible and you should constantly upgrade, which makes them and their financiers happy, but constantly costs you more. I recommend setting a stable 60 FPS with enough reserves so that the graphics card doesn't have to constantly bungee jump and the latencies don't constantly jump up and down while your PC becomes a furnace and your power supply has to work in the kilowatt range to be able to supply everything accordingly.

quiter? not at all!

double the amount of fans, push-pull after all.. static fans (that are louder at same performance.. )
thinner fans (agaon louder)
and a pump.. (more noice..

my watercooled system is as loud as a vacuumckeaner... it roars..

most aircooled systems you barely even hear.

that said.. stable just 34C for cpu and gpu.. full load permanent on with overclock aircooled that be more like 60-70C without overclock.

but is such a custom loop worthe the fact every rma takes 3 months minimum.. amd costs you 1500 euro meaning you effectively can only use yoir pc halve the time while you pay for it double.. first when you get it and than another 1000 each year you use it in rma labourexpenses
no it is not.

watercooling is a terrible endless moneydrain like buying a boat or driving an abtique car..

[_I_]

also undervolting?
thats the same rules as overclocking
lower core voltage = less stable

it may work on some silicon, but ymmv,
test tweak repeat

large fan has more cfm and runs quieter
80mm fans are no longer used in new pcs because they are low cfm and noisy
120-140 can be quiet and good cfm
you can get loud very high cfm 120-140mm fans but run them at lower speeds for quieter operation with good cfm

fps has no real world impact on cpu/gpu loads
it really depends on the game, res and many other things
you can cap fps at 1, but if the game is running at 10000k res and needs alot of cpu, its still high cpu and gpu loads

as long as the cooler and case airflow is enough to keep the system cool its fine
how it is done makes no difference on its performance

[mtono]

my comment: i think for cooling water is better because water is different in physics to air and another media to keep a straight temperature, which is good for the cpu TTL(digital chips). i dont really know?

[Emrys]

@Dutchgamer1982

Now don't ruin the one advantage that I attribute to water cooling (being quieter). Let's at least agree that you can cool individual components better with water cooling, OK? The really crazy ones use liquid nitrogen anyway. There's no way to help them.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Emrys:

@Dutchgamer1982

Now don't ruin the one advantage that I attribute to water cooling (being quieter). Let's at least agree that you can cool individual components better with water cooling, OK? The really crazy ones use liquid nitrogen anyway. There's no way to help them.

I have wasted thousands on watercooling (in 4 years time 3 pumps broke.. and each rma was like 1000+ euro in labour due only 1 store would take even up the rma job as every store will treath custom loop system like if they have the plague and that 1 store charged 150 euro an hour in labour and claimed to have taken 8 hours to replace a motherboard and even than managed to hand back the system without backplate and basicly would not fix that issue...

it IS a moneydrain..
and as it stands beside me with it's 12 140mm fans and 140mm, 280mm and 420mm rads.. it IS as loud as a vacuum cleaner..

yes I overclock a cpu by 50% and still get temps of 30 degrees...
but boy is the thing loud..

and all the pleasure of epic performance when it was new.. kind of got ruined if you figure after 11 months it went in a 15 month rma...
basicly for every 3 months I owned the system it has been 1.2 months in rma...

it's like do you rather own a relatiable mercedes.. or a ferarri that might look cooler and perform better but it will be broken and in the garage all the time meaning halve the time you be walkiing and the laughing stock of even those who own clunker cars..

I not care for the noise.. a pc imho is fully allowed to ROAR.. the louder the better...
but it's the endless nightmare and costs with rema's to keep the custom loop running that makes me say.. never again..
this was my first and my last system with watercooling..
it caused nothing but headaches.. at least aircooled systems I can build and repair myself without racking up rma labourcosts.. and months not having my pc cause long waiting lists to get processed.

I might go fully passive cooled next build though.. similair costly.. but no moving parts.. nothing that can break... the silence is a bonus.

btw there IS a step crazier than watercooling.. it aint nitrogen youy cannot permanent drive a nitrogen system..
there excist cases that use vacuum cooling (even cases of like 1500 euro excist that have a cooler like that build in)

you generally will have to use a lot of clay to make a perfect airtight seal as water condensing is a high risk if air leaks in..

some components will not work with it as you basicly permanent work at -15C so well below freezing.. and some parts not like that..
and you likely need a custom 3d printed mount to connect the house airtight...

so it aint cheap.. but if you really want the max performance thats the way to go.

it basicly IS akin to putting your pc in a fridge.. only where your house fridge has a PUNY small vacuum as well normally the fridge be closed...
this one has a LOT more umpf...