Windows 11 - ready to change your OS yet again?

[Vanythe]

Now that Windows 10 support is ending and seeing how Windows 7, 8 and 8.1 users have been bashed and scorned... Windows 10 users - you're next. Soon, you'll either be in their shoes, sticking to your beloved Windows 10 while 11 is shoved down everyone's throat harder than feeding a goose for Foie Gras -or- you will switch to another OS. Question is, which? What options are the closest to Windows 10 besides ten million different linux distros which all rely on terminal for any serious/advanced work?

[r.linder]

引用自 Zefar：

引用自 Omega：

Never had that issue in my entire life on Windows. Also you barely install drivers on win10 and 11. Basically get graphics drivers and this can be done by just getting their respective program and have it automatically get them for you.

You might have needed to install a lot of drivers on Win7 or Vista but it stopped after that.

Disabling invasive trashware? There is only one. TikTok. That's about it. Right click -> Uninstall -> Done.

引用自 Omega：

No, different distros can do different things. Windows does everything without any problems.
Also no I'm not counting age old games on Linux. Even modern games don't always work because of Anti cheat system.

LinusTechTips have done Linux a few times and it's from people who have used it before. One of the members even used it as a main OS through school.
Even he didn't look back after the challenge and just went to Win11.

Both of them just didn't have the time to tinker and trying to fix issues that showed up for them. They just wanted it to work and Win10 and Win11 does just that.

If you want to run most old Dos games, you get the DOS box client.
But Win10 and 11 will run nearly everything you could ever want without any problems.

引用自 r.linder：

You don't need to do all of those things you have said. You can just get the graphics driver, get Steam and start playing.

You think you need to do that because you hate Windows. It's honestly not gonna make the slightest difference in the long run for you.

1. There's a lot more bloatware and invasive junk built into Windows 10/11 than just TikTok, the OS itself is designed to benefit Microsoft just as much as it was designed to work for the user. The OS is bloated with tons of telemetry, Edge and bing are designed to collect data for Microsoft, and because of all of the junk they've jam-packed into it, it slows down the whole OS and raises the resource cost.

2. Linus Sebastian and Luke Lafreniere both said in a recent WAN show that they're both really considering switching over from Windows to Linux on their personal machines because of the recent changes coming to Windows, like Recall. They've been talking with Emily extensively about it. You honestly can't reference LTT as some sort of excuse for why Linux is worse when you don't even watch enough of their content to even know that it's more about entertainment than information, and what their personal opinions are. Linus is literally on our side now, his prediction is that Windows is going to become more of a business focused operating system making heavy use of ARM processors from Qualcomm going forward with the huge support that Snapdragon has been given on Windows 11 Copilot laptops, and that Linux is more likely going to become a major focus for gaming machines. Luke said that he really likes Ubuntu compared to Windows and he'll very likely be switching soon if he hasn't already.

3. You're wrong about distros being for different things, pretty much anything you can run on one distribution will work on another, that is a commonly known fact among the Linux community that is constantly brought up because people don't understand the difference between "work" distros, "gaming" distros, etc.
The differences are mainly in what is prepackaged with the distribution, the options provided by default, etc. You can use any distribution for whatever you want, some might perform the task better, but that doesn't change a thing.

4. No, you do have to install drivers after installing Windows and you have to manually update your drivers every now and then to prevent them from being broken because you can't trust Windows Update to pick good drivers to begin with. And it's absolutely necessary to remove as much of the harmful bloat that Microsoft crams down your throat and both re-installs and re-enables every time the system updates.

[r.linder]

引用自 Zefar：

引用自 Omega：

I doubt that. And if true you have been very lucky, it is not an experience many people share.

Never been an issue for me.

Like the rest of your posts in the thread, this is just teeming with denial.

引用自 Omega：

There is a lot more. There is a reason many people run Shutup10 among other things.

引用自 Zefar：

There really isn't. People just assume every program is a spyware because they hate it.

Wrong, Windows 10 and 11 are literally designed to farm data because Microsoft makes millions off of it, it's why they try to make you use Edge and bing and why their OS is free to use now without a license, they would prefer that you buy the license but they'll gladly still take your data to sell off for ad revenue.

Windows 11+ is going to incorporate more and more advertisements, that is a literal fact as well and one of the reasons why Linus wants to switch.

引用自 Omega：

That is just incorrect, or very Windows-minded. Effective any distro can be made to do anything any other does.

引用自 Zefar：

There wouldn't be different distros if they all could do the same thing. There is a reason someone always ask "Which is best for gaming?" and will get different answers.

Wrong again, the reason why there's different distributions is because Linux is open-source and people can configure and package them any way they please that suits their needs and preferences. Some are focused on gaming, some are focused on work, some are focused on cybersecurity, some are focused on education, they all have use cases intended by its creator(s) but they can all effectively do the same things when configured to do so, it's up to the user to decide if they want to put in that kind of work or install something that has it already done.
Tell me you know nothing about Linux without telling me you know nothing about Linux.

引用自 Omega：

That you are invoking LTT is a clear indication that you are not very technical user. LTT does reviews and abstract overviews, nothing highly technical nor in-depth or discussed in their content.

引用自 Zefar：

They do pretty in-depth reviews of a lot of things. They also have far more knowledge than the vast majority of the userbase.
Dismissing them entirely is a typical behavior of those elite Linux users. That refuse to see any problems with their OS choice.

LTT literally went down for a month to fix all of the glaring issues with their "in-depth reviews" having a ton of mistakes because they were pumping out videos every single day with little actual focus on quality and accuracy, and their general knowledge is pretty average as far as tech journalism goes. People that actually understand these things turn to GamersNexus for accuracy and quality long before they would consider watching LTT for the same reason, what most people watch LTT for is the entertainment value of their content and it shows, many of their more popular videos are less informative and more entertaining or just outright goofy like the Wish PC build.

And like I said, Linus himself is probably going to give Linux a serious chance now because he's been talking with Emily about it, he's not happy with Microsoft's direction for Windows, and he said he would in the WAN show.
And by the way, people are still finding mistakes in their videos and LTT is actively shadowbanning people in the comments.

The fact that you refer to Linux users at elitists is hilarious, really only shows that you're starting to resort to insults because you don't want to admit that Omega has made valid points.

引用自 Omega：

That is incorrect. You will need more drivers to make your hardware fully functional, depending on your hardware config;
- GPU
- Chipset
- NIC
- WLAN
- Sound card
- USB controller

On Linux? This stuff all just works. Only exception is Nvidia, but there are many distros who tailor to this and include Nvidia drivers by default or as an option.

引用自 Zefar：

I mentioned GPU already and it's the only one you need.
When was the last time you used Windows? Because these where things you did in Vista or XP. Even with 7 you didn't need to update most of those things.

Chipset? Nope, that was on Vista last I remember.
NIC? Nope, don't need to do this.
WLAN? Still nope, win8 and up have no problem with this.
Sound card? We're not in 1990 here with Soundblaster cards. It's all done on the motherboard.
USB controller? SINCE WHEN? Even on XP or Vista I never had to update this thing.

Again, wrong. You need all of those drivers for the system to be working as intended regardless of the operating system. Windows might pre-install what it thinks is the right driver but it's often an older driver that has to be replaced, and WLAN drivers never install on their own, it's been a blockade for people trying to use WiFi during the setup process before they can even get into Windows, and not installing the right and most recent chipset drivers can seriously impact performance, especially on AMD systems.


I'm not wasting any more time on this, you clearly just came to argue about something you don't even understand. Linux definitely isn't for you if your technical skills and knowledge are limited.

[Omega]

引用自 Zefar：

snip

I am not going to reply to every statement again, so I am going to reply broad.

I disagree, from my point of view Linux today is ahead of Windows in terms of ease of use. Drivers and software are more simple on Linux than on Windows, the amount of complexity a user has to go through to deal with them is significantly less. Most of the time it is 'It just works' and app store.

The only place where Windows is still superior is accessability to non-technical users, and that is not because it is easier to use/set up/maintain (which it isn't), but because it is supplied by default on almost all PCs sold.

Your statements on drivers are factually wrong. You do not seem to grasp this topic and resort to voodoo.

I am not an elistist, even though you are comparing me to these people. My opinions are factual and provable. Each of the major OSs has a legit use case, but this I never pulled in to doubt, a fanboy or elist would.

There are so many distros because everyone has their own idea of a good default. There is little actual differences between these distros and their parent distro. Any software they ship to make them unique can also be used on almost any other distro.


Above all, your statements and opinions seem to be motivated by a form of metathesiophobia (A fear of change). Or maybe it is just an extreme form of blind brand loyaly.

Little of what you are saying is factual and obviously viewed from an extremely biased standpoint. I doubt you are willing to change your mind on any of this irrelevant of how many people will repeat the same things I said.

I do not see us making any further progress on this topic.

[VisciousFishes]

引用自 Omega：

引用自 Zefar：

snip

I am not going to reply to every statement again, so I am going to reply broad.

I disagree, from my point of view Linux today is ahead of Windows in terms of ease of use. Drivers and software are more simple on Linux than on Windows, the amount of complexity a user has to go through to deal with them is significantly less. Most of the time it is 'It just works' and app store.

The only place where Windows is still superior is accessability to non-technical users, and that is not because it is easier to use/set up/maintain (which it isn't), but because it is supplied by default on almost all PCs sold.

Your statements on drivers are factually wrong. You do not seem to grasp this topic and resort to voodoo.

I am not an elistist, even though you are comparing me to these people. My opinions are factual and provable. Each of the major OSs has a legit use case, but this I never pulled in to doubt, a fanboy or elist would.

There are so many distros because everyone has their own idea of a good default. There is little actual differences between these distros and their parent distro. Any software they ship to make them unique can also be used on almost any other distro.


Above all, your statements and opinions seem to be motivated by a form of metathesiophobia (A fear of change). Or maybe it is just an extreme form of blind brand loyaly.

Little of what you are saying is factual and obviously viewed from an extremely biased standpoint. I doubt you are willing to change your mind on any of this irrelevant of how many people will repeat the same things I said.

I do not see us making any further progress on this topic.

Opinions are subjective. Facts are objective.

Please for love of God stop thinking that your opinion = objective fact. The very fact its called an opinion makes your point subjective. There are no such things as "objective opinions." It's an oxymoron.

[Omega]

引用自 VisciousFishes：

引用自 Omega：

I am not going to reply to every statement again, so I am going to reply broad.

I disagree, from my point of view Linux today is ahead of Windows in terms of ease of use. Drivers and software are more simple on Linux than on Windows, the amount of complexity a user has to go through to deal with them is significantly less. Most of the time it is 'It just works' and app store.

The only place where Windows is still superior is accessability to non-technical users, and that is not because it is easier to use/set up/maintain (which it isn't), but because it is supplied by default on almost all PCs sold.

Your statements on drivers are factually wrong. You do not seem to grasp this topic and resort to voodoo.

I am not an elistist, even though you are comparing me to these people. My opinions are factual and provable. Each of the major OSs has a legit use case, but this I never pulled in to doubt, a fanboy or elist would.

There are so many distros because everyone has their own idea of a good default. There is little actual differences between these distros and their parent distro. Any software they ship to make them unique can also be used on almost any other distro.


Above all, your statements and opinions seem to be motivated by a form of metathesiophobia (A fear of change). Or maybe it is just an extreme form of blind brand loyaly.

Little of what you are saying is factual and obviously viewed from an extremely biased standpoint. I doubt you are willing to change your mind on any of this irrelevant of how many people will repeat the same things I said.

I do not see us making any further progress on this topic.

Opinions are subjective. Facts are objective.

Please for love of God stop thinking that your opinion = objective fact. The very fact its called an opinion makes your point subjective. There are no such things as "objective opinions." It's an oxymoron.

I was not refering to my opinions when saying "My opinions are factual and provable", I was refering to the facts they are based upon, the facts I repeatedly pointed out. I am sure you can distinguish between a fact and opinion, so it should be no problem to find the facts I am refering to.

More specifically I was pointing out that the person who I was quoting has viewpoints and opinions not build upon factual information.

The sky is blue, and I say it is pretty. The one I was quoting said it is purple and horrible looking. An opinion is worthless if the facts it is based upon are not correct.


But I agree it is a poor choise in wording, I should have phrased it differently.

[VisciousFishes]

Dude, the point you made, which I highlighted literally said "My opinions are factual and provable."

Perhaps you meant "my opinion is based on my subjective interpretation of objective facts which I can prove."

Again, the sentence I highlited from your own words were "my opinions are factual."

[Omega]

引用自 VisciousFishes：

Perhaps you meant "my opinion is based on my subjective interpretation of objective facts which I can prove."

That is indeed what I intended to say. As my post above explained..

[Zefar]

引用自 r.linder：

1. There's a lot more bloatware and invasive junk built into Windows 10/11 than just TikTok, the OS itself is designed to benefit Microsoft just as much as it was designed to work for the user. The OS is bloated with tons of telemetry, Edge and bing are designed to collect data for Microsoft, and because of all of the junk they've jam-packed into it, it slows down the whole OS and raises the resource cost.

The bloat is nothing when OS is put on a SSD. Bloat only really matters when it's a harddrive.
The moment you install a new browser Edge will rarely show up. Also websites in general will steal your information as much as possible. Any internet browser will do this too. Edge is not a special case.

The OS isn't jampacked with junk and it won't slow it down at all. You can already uninstall quite a lot of stuff but they make no difference at all.

引用自 r.linder：

2. Linus Sebastian and Luke Lafreniere both said in a recent WAN show that they're both really considering switching over from Windows to Linux on their personal machines because of the recent changes coming to Windows, like Recall. They've been talking with Emily extensively about it. You honestly can't reference LTT as some sort of excuse for why Linux is worse when you don't even watch enough of their content to even know that it's more about entertainment than information, and what their personal opinions are. Linus is literally on our side now, his prediction is that Windows is going to become more of a business focused operating system making heavy use of ARM processors from Qualcomm going forward with the huge support that Snapdragon has been given on Windows 11 Copilot laptops, and that Linux is more likely going to become a major focus for gaming machines. Luke said that he really likes Ubuntu compared to Windows and he'll very likely be switching soon if he hasn't already.

Luke said that the moment the Linux challenge was over, he installed Win11 AND he even kept the start menu in the middle. Didn't look back.
I don't think I've heard Linus stating he would jump over too it. As it's just too much fixing.

LTT is a good channel to show problems with Linux because they ran into problems. Quite a few of them too.

Linux users have stated for years that "This is our time and we'll take over gaming" You haven't for a reason.

引用自 r.linder：

3. You're wrong about distros being for different things, pretty much anything you can run on one distribution will work on another, that is a commonly known fact among the Linux community that is constantly brought up because people don't understand the difference between "work" distros, "gaming" distros, etc.
The differences are mainly in what is prepackaged with the distribution, the options provided by default, etc. You can use any distribution for whatever you want, some might perform the task better, but that doesn't change a thing.

It is Linux users that tries to tell which is the best one. Even LTT ran into this problem where they asked about it and got plenty of answers.

引用自 r.linder：

4. No, you do have to install drivers after installing Windows and you have to manually update your drivers every now and then to prevent them from being broken because you can't trust Windows Update to pick good drivers to begin with. And it's absolutely necessary to remove as much of the harmful bloat that Microsoft crams down your throat and both re-installs and re-enables every time the system updates.

As someone who has had to re install Windows 11 due to SSD dying some months back. No, you do not really need to do this.

There are updates you can install but these are not needed. GPU drivers are really the only thing you need.

引用自 r.linder：

Wrong, Windows 10 and 11 are literally designed to farm data because Microsoft makes millions off of it, it's why they try to make you use Edge and bing and why their OS is free to use now without a license, they would prefer that you buy the license but they'll gladly still take your data to sell off for ad revenue.

Windows 11+ is going to incorporate more and more advertisements, that is a literal fact as well and one of the reasons why Linus wants to switch.

Edge is the default browser of Windows. Obviously they are going to promote it.
Much like how Apply promote their browser.

More ads? Well I don't have any ads in Windows 11. These mythical things just haven't shown up for me.

引用自 r.linder：

Wrong again, the reason why there's different distributions is because Linux is open-source and people can configure and package them any way they please that suits their needs and preferences. Some are focused on gaming, some are focused on work, some are focused on cybersecurity, some are focused on education, they all have use cases intended by its creator(s) but they can all effectively do the same things when configured to do so, it's up to the user to decide if they want to put in that kind of work or install something that has it already done.
Tell me you know nothing about Linux without telling me you know nothing about Linux.

The answers literally come from Linux users only. Go tell them that they are wrong and that they should use that one distro that is the best then.

引用自 r.linder：

LTT literally went down for a month to fix all of the glaring issues with their "in-depth reviews" having a ton of mistakes because they were pumping out videos every single day with little actual focus on quality and accuracy, and their general knowledge is pretty average as far as tech journalism goes. People that actually understand these things turn to GamersNexus for accuracy and quality long before they would consider watching LTT for the same reason, what most people watch LTT for is the entertainment value of their content and it shows, many of their more popular videos are less informative and more entertaining or just outright goofy like the Wish PC build.

They goofed up once with one comment and you act like everything they do is wrong.
I've been watching them for years and yes they have weird builds but they will still provide a lot of detailed information.
When they review cards they do provide a lot of information about them. More than enough when you want to make a buying decision.

GamersNexus are good but it's graph after graph after graph. LTT can do the very same thing but it'd be boring. LTT still provide the same value. They are going to do such videos with their lab though. So if you just want raw info you'll get it.

Also what is fun is that people started to comment on videos after that video that "Oh they have really improved", "Good see that it's already taking effect" when in reality the videos after that was done before that apology video.

The haters couldn't tell a difference. Much like how some people "I remember when they where more professional back in the day" at which Linus entirely confused about. Because he shows an old video and ask how any of it was professional.

引用自 r.linder：

And like I said, Linus himself is probably going to give Linux a serious chance now because he's been talking with Emily about it, he's not happy with Microsoft's direction for Windows, and he said he would in the WAN show.
And by the way, people are still finding mistakes in their videos and LTT is actively shadowbanning people in the comments.

The fact that you refer to Linux users at elitists is hilarious, really only shows that you're starting to resort to insults because you don't want to admit that Omega has made valid points.

I've watched all WAN shows for a few years straight. While Linus has a dislike for some things in Windows I don't think he's going to go to Linux only.

I do remember Linus talking about banning people in the comment section but it was because they are just haters. They can't be argued with and they just do not care. He has tried at some points where he told an user he had his full attention. The user who complained literally couldn't provide a proper answer.

You're being labeled as elitist when you completely ignore the fact that Linux can't run every game out there. You act as if there is nothing wrong with the OS. That every distro is the same.
Then go out and say that you need to keep installing a lot of drivers in Windows 11. Which you do not need to do.

引用自 r.linder：

Again, wrong. You need all of those drivers for the system to be working as intended regardless of the operating system. Windows might pre-install what it thinks is the right driver but it's often an older driver that has to be replaced, and WLAN drivers never install on their own, it's been a blockade for people trying to use WiFi during the setup process before they can even get into Windows, and not installing the right and most recent chipset drivers can seriously impact performance, especially on AMD systems.


I'm not wasting any more time on this, you clearly just came to argue about something you don't even understand. Linux definitely isn't for you if your technical skills and knowledge are limited.

I've build my own PC for the past 2 decades. Never owned a pre built one.
The times I stopped updating drivers for a lot of stuff in the PC ended with Win8. In Win10 and 11 you do not need to do it.

Other than graphics drivers. It honestly sounds like you haven't used Windows in a very long time.

引用自 Omega：

Your statements on drivers are factually wrong. You do not seem to grasp this topic and resort to voodoo.

Uh huh, sure it is. Soundcards and USB controllers? Yeah as if I've ever needed to update those. I even use Playstations gamepad which have less support than average and they still work just fine.

引用自 Omega：

I disagree, from my point of view Linux today is ahead of Windows in terms of ease of use. Drivers and software are more simple on Linux than on Windows, the amount of complexity a user has to go through to deal with them is significantly less. Most of the time it is 'It just works' and app store.

Eeeh no. There is no complexity on Windows 10 or 11. As you don't need to do that other than graphics drivers.
But if you play games and through Steam, Steam itself will tell you where to go.

[ShriekViola]

I upgraded to 10 last year out of necessity / pragmatism, it will also be the last time I do so, beings as I've also been aquinting myself more with the linux ecosystem over the last year. Not enough to make the switch over full time yet, but that's the intended end goal.

Simply put I'm bored of Trillionsoft and their tech carnie gimmicks and monopoly derived arrogance in increasingly deciding for me the ways they think a computer should be used over how I actually want to use it. All I need and ever will need is a dependable work / hobby balanced OS with next to no clutter or interfering forced update sessions or nagging notifications trying to sway me towards relying on implemented bloatware I have no real reason or interest to ever use. Utilitarian and to the point.

[Mabi]

I trust Winodows 12 is modular and more similar to Linux. Otherwise it's just part of the past, There's no point in having too many Linux distros, when you have Manjaro Cinnamon Desktop.

[Lixire]

Already on 11 for like 3 years at this point (using that one since the beta builds of 22000).

But if I was on 10 and had no option to upgrade officially? I would just keep on using the OS until the end and perhaps during that time get a new computer and upgrade into 11 anyway

[Bad 💀 Motha]

I'll stick with Win10 Enterprise on most of my PCs; still has support for years to come.