RTX 5090 70% faster vs RTX 4090 ?!?

[Raoul]

750W cards incoming or are they just going to show us some slides of a very specific optimised use case in a single program?

https://www.pcgamesn.com/nvidia/geforce-rtx-5090-performance

Edit: 675W*

[Karumati]

引用自 De Hollandse Ezel：

引用自 waffleciocc：

I've proven this was incorrect about 50 times in the past week.

My 1080 Ti used 310w.

did you have an overclocked model?

my 2080ti uses 250w.. the pump to cool it.. thats another story... but that single 2080ti uses 250.. so did the 980ti.,. and the titan black.. and the 580.. and every card I had that always was the best or secondbest lonmg before it..

you want to argue tdp =/= actual draw...
I grand you that as draw will matter on load..
but higher tdp = more draw..
and usualy max draw = tdp.

you want to argue that some brands sell factory overclocked varients..
I grand you that.. but again not the factory model nor the chip does that.

fact is todays chips have RI-DI-CU-LOUS powerdraw
and todays chips have RI-DI-CU-LOUS prices.. even if you correct traditional prices for inflation.
both show in nvidea's profitmargin and neth profit goine trough the roof..

the prices are NOT tthis high cause they cost that much more to make
and the chips are clearly not as well designed as they could.. basicly we see what intel used to do.. to expensive chips.. and very ltitle spend on r&d.. due the lack of competion..

you saw how much they held back.. when that competiion arrived suddenly the product leaped lightyears in progress.. and prices plummeteth... showing how much they overcharged and how much they did not sell what they could make.,.

ofcourse a good compagny does not HAVE to do this.,. even with essentially a monopoly.. nvidea could think.. I not NEED maximum profit.. I want to just give gamers a nice experience.. so I just take a nice 30% profitmargin.. thats enough.. and keep doing good r&d and charge reasonable prices.. so my gamers who have been my customers for decades are served well..

10% increase in performance that you are suggesting is basically nothing

[The_Abortionator]

引用自 RIP Heihachi Fk Kazuya：

引用自 The_Abortionator：

Maybe don't believe lies and rumors? The cards aren't even done being made, they are over a year out from now.

over a year? doubt it

https://www.pcworld.com/article/1974281/nvidia-sets-2025-date-for-rtx-50-series-cards.html

Why are you guys like this?

You can't even follow Nvidia's OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENTS but take randos rumors as gospel.

Do you feel smart? Because you shouldn't.

[De Hollandse Ezel]

引用自 Karumati：

引用自 De Hollandse Ezel：

did you have an overclocked model?

my 2080ti uses 250w.. the pump to cool it.. thats another story... but that single 2080ti uses 250.. so did the 980ti.,. and the titan black.. and the 580.. and every card I had that always was the best or secondbest lonmg before it..

you want to argue tdp =/= actual draw...
I grand you that as draw will matter on load..
but higher tdp = more draw..
and usualy max draw = tdp.

you want to argue that some brands sell factory overclocked varients..
I grand you that.. but again not the factory model nor the chip does that.

fact is todays chips have RI-DI-CU-LOUS powerdraw
and todays chips have RI-DI-CU-LOUS prices.. even if you correct traditional prices for inflation.
both show in nvidea's profitmargin and neth profit goine trough the roof..

the prices are NOT tthis high cause they cost that much more to make
and the chips are clearly not as well designed as they could.. basicly we see what intel used to do.. to expensive chips.. and very ltitle spend on r&d.. due the lack of competion..

you saw how much they held back.. when that competiion arrived suddenly the product leaped lightyears in progress.. and prices plummeteth... showing how much they overcharged and how much they did not sell what they could make.,.

ofcourse a good compagny does not HAVE to do this.,. even with essentially a monopoly.. nvidea could think.. I not NEED maximum profit.. I want to just give gamers a nice experience.. so I just take a nice 30% profitmargin.. thats enough.. and keep doing good r&d and charge reasonable prices.. so my gamers who have been my customers for decades are served well..

10% increase in performance that you are suggesting is basically nothing

so thats the part you worry about.

I look at it different
for me a card that uses twice the watt but is 50% faster.. is a WORSE card.
"performance per watt" thats where it is at.

likewise if you give me 50% more performance per watt.. but also spike up the price by 100% (even when correctected for inflation).. I see that as a worse card.

so a card that performs equal to a 4090.. but uses only 250W not 450.. and costs 1100 not 2200..
is a card that is 3.6 times BETTER.
thats a whopping 360% performance gain in my book.

which is vastly preferable top a card that IS 40% faster than a 4090.. but costs 3000 and uses 600W power.

sure I would like if 5xxx series would get a 40% performance boost while ALSO dropping tdp back to the normal numbers AND prices down to normal numbers..
but I am realistic enough to see that years of R&D slacking cant made up in 1 generation...

usually we get 40% better at same price at same wattage..
to have an effective 360% performance boost... even if absolute performance would stay about the same.. would already be an unheared of step forward.. making up for much of the crap steps up of past 2 generations when you factor in the yanking up of price and powerdraaw...

sorry by normal prices remain those upto the 9xx series and normal powerdraws those upto the 2xxx series..

Personally :

and I kind of not care for the actual performance of a card.. I just care about having the best of the moment....
call it bragging rights...
which is much easier to do if each generations best card cost 700-1000 euro.. than if it costs two or tree times that.

I might not have a set in stone budget.. but with the best card back to costing 1000 euro.. I can upgrade each generation for the same price instead of just once per 3.. while also spending much less on power... which will give a much better performance..

being forced into the lower brackets... if I not want to spend considerible more OR delay upgrades to just in in 3 or 4 generations + have to buy those lower cards to have a powerdraw that is close to what the best cards of the moments should draw... also feels very wrong..

at the moment with such a disturbed market.. a correction of those 2 flaws is much more important than "absolute performance gain..

[De Hollandse Ezel]

tldr version

10% neth performance gain paired with a 50% drop in price and a 45% drop in tdp... is an ACTUAL performance gain of nearly 400%!!!

which is TEN times the gain you would get before the market was disturbed...
when you would get a 40% net performance gain at equal price and tdp.

and WAY better that the current era..
where yes you do get 40%^performance gains.. but they go paired with 80% increases in tdp and 200% increases in price
which effectigely is a massive LOSS not a gain.

I still compare prices and tdp how they used to be for a long period.. and refuse to accept the pricespikes and tdp spiked of the last 2 gens.. and see that as an error that must be corrected much more than needing more performance.

performance wise I also care more about "having more than others" than what I actually have.
and if that "having more than others" can be had cheaper and with less tdp.. than I prefer that.

[Karumati]

引用自 De Hollandse Ezel：

引用自 Karumati：

10% increase in performance that you are suggesting is basically nothing

so thats the part you worry about.

I look at it different
for me a card that uses twice the watt but is 50% faster.. is a WORSE card.
"performance per watt" thats where it is at.

likewise if you give me 50% more performance per watt.. but also spike up the price by 100% (even when correctected for inflation).. I see that as a worse card.

so a card that performs equal to a 4090.. but uses only 250W not 450.. and costs 1100 not 2200..
is a card that is 3.6 times BETTER.
thats a whopping 360% performance gain in my book.

which is vastly preferable top a card that IS 40% faster than a 4090.. but costs 3000 and uses 600W power.

sure I would like if 5xxx series would get a 40% performance boost while ALSO dropping tdp back to the normal numbers AND prices down to normal numbers..
but I am realistic enough to see that years of R&D slacking cant made up in 1 generation...

usually we get 40% better at same price at same wattage..
to have an effective 360% performance boost... even if absolute performance would stay about the same.. would already be an unheared of step forward.. making up for much of the crap steps up of past 2 generations when you factor in the yanking up of price and powerdraaw...

sorry by normal prices remain those upto the 9xx series and normal powerdraws those upto the 2xxx series..

Personally :

and I kind of not care for the actual performance of a card.. I just care about having the best of the moment....
call it bragging rights...
which is much easier to do if each generations best card cost 700-1000 euro.. than if it costs two or tree times that.

I might not have a set in stone budget.. but with the best card back to costing 1000 euro.. I can upgrade each generation for the same price instead of just once per 3.. while also spending much less on power... which will give a much better performance..

being forced into the lower brackets... if I not want to spend considerible more OR delay upgrades to just in in 3 or 4 generations + have to buy those lower cards to have a powerdraw that is close to what the best cards of the moments should draw... also feels very wrong..

at the moment with such a disturbed market.. a correction of those 2 flaws is much more important than "absolute performance gain..

The more performance the better.
Every high end pc is running 1k watt+ psu’s anyway.

[De Hollandse Ezel]

引用自 Karumati：

引用自 De Hollandse Ezel：

so thats the part you worry about.

I look at it different
for me a card that uses twice the watt but is 50% faster.. is a WORSE card.
"performance per watt" thats where it is at.

likewise if you give me 50% more performance per watt.. but also spike up the price by 100% (even when correctected for inflation).. I see that as a worse card.

so a card that performs equal to a 4090.. but uses only 250W not 450.. and costs 1100 not 2200..
is a card that is 3.6 times BETTER.
thats a whopping 360% performance gain in my book.

which is vastly preferable top a card that IS 40% faster than a 4090.. but costs 3000 and uses 600W power.

sure I would like if 5xxx series would get a 40% performance boost while ALSO dropping tdp back to the normal numbers AND prices down to normal numbers..
but I am realistic enough to see that years of R&D slacking cant made up in 1 generation...

usually we get 40% better at same price at same wattage..
to have an effective 360% performance boost... even if absolute performance would stay about the same.. would already be an unheared of step forward.. making up for much of the crap steps up of past 2 generations when you factor in the yanking up of price and powerdraaw...

sorry by normal prices remain those upto the 9xx series and normal powerdraws those upto the 2xxx series..

Personally :

and I kind of not care for the actual performance of a card.. I just care about having the best of the moment....
call it bragging rights...
which is much easier to do if each generations best card cost 700-1000 euro.. than if it costs two or tree times that.

I might not have a set in stone budget.. but with the best card back to costing 1000 euro.. I can upgrade each generation for the same price instead of just once per 3.. while also spending much less on power... which will give a much better performance..

being forced into the lower brackets... if I not want to spend considerible more OR delay upgrades to just in in 3 or 4 generations + have to buy those lower cards to have a powerdraw that is close to what the best cards of the moments should draw... also feels very wrong..

at the moment with such a disturbed market.. a correction of those 2 flaws is much more important than "absolute performance gain..

The more performance the better.
Every high end pc is running 1k watt+ psu’s anyway.

And thats where I disagree..

having a bulky psu is not the issue here.. paying for the utility bill is.
it adds even more costs that if you factor those in means the price increase per performance is even worse...

and if you spend more on utility that goes out of that buy a new card budget.. and if those new cards now have been pricegouced.. that pushes you to an even lower bracket..

I always have been buying upper midend, to highend pc's.

if you want insanity.. there was sli.. it was fun running 4 way sli.. with 4 980ti.. drawing each 250w...even if that realisticly only performed about twice as good as a single 980ti... IF games even supported sli..

but even owning 1 980ti.. or titan.. you could still enjoy a reasonable powerdraw and the bragging rights of owning the best, or secondbest card of the moment.. all the while not using over 250W and not spending over 700, or 1100 euro respectively..

midend was 1 new pc for 1600-2400 euro.. once every 3-4 years
highend started roughly once you started spending over 3k on the same..

I LIKED the day 700 euro could buy you the best or the secondbest gpu there was.
I not think spending 2000, 3000 euro on the best or the secondbest gpu is normal.
nor should 700 euro gpu's be normal.. those are for the 10% high end gamers only.. and a xx70 should be aimed at midend..

occationally I did buy grazy stuff like a 1300 best there is cpu and 700 euro for 128GB ram.. or 4 of those 700 euro cpu's in sli yes..

but those budgets used to buy me confortably very very good parts
even those who could only afford to spend 1200 euro every 3-4 years (the low end gamers) could for 200 euro get that xx60 card..

I just don't think one should spend much more than 1/4th of your budget on the gpu
the golden system building rule always has been :
1/4th on perifials
1/4th on gpu
1/4th on mobo+cpu+ram
1/4th on case, psu, storage, cooling, etc

try that with todays gpu prices...
now look when the price for electricity is more than double what it used to be..
than those insane draws really can not be defended... you pay the card three times in utility bill with powerdraws like that..

[De Hollandse Ezel]

so I get your performance chasing.. but lets face it who spends 10k a year on hardware?
nobody's budget is unlimited..

and many of the large group of midend gamers.. with 1600-2400 euro every 3-4 year budgets are forced into the low end bracket..
and many high end gamers with 3200-4800 budgets are forced into the midend bracket...
while the lowend bracket of 800-1200 euro.. is essentially dead..


lets compare cars..
say most people buy a toyota, renault or volvo in the 24000-36000 pricerange (midclass)
poor people buy a skoda or fiat in the 8000-12000 pricerange.

and a small 10% of market aims for the luxery cars.. of mercedes, audi and bmw. at 36000-48000..

and than there are ferrari's for 80k... few buy these.. but sometimes you just manage to get one.. if not you at least have a luxery car..

than all of the sudden.. you find that
**the fuel efficiency of all cars alongside the board has become TERRIBLE.. totally ignoring that fuel prices are now tripple what they used to be.

and that 80k that used to buy you sometimes a supercar but always a luxery car.. now often can't even buy you a midclass car..

and the vast group of midclass car users.. is forced into the low end of the market...

many are pushed out of car ownership together

meanwhile the dealers make record profit margins.. over the pricegauching..

[Karumati]

引用自 De Hollandse Ezel：

引用自 Karumati：

The more performance the better.
Every high end pc is running 1k watt+ psu’s anyway.

if you want insanity.. there was sli.. it was fun running 4 way sli.. with 4 980ti.. drawing each 250w...even if that realisticly only performed about twice as good as a single 980ti... IF games even supported sli..

but even owning 1 980ti.. or titan.. you could still enjoy a reasonable powerdraw and the bragging rights of owning the best, or secondbest card of the moment.. all the while not using over 250W and not spending over 700, or 1100 euro respectively..

sli is not a thing anymore
my current 3090 has very reasonable powerdraw and there is no problem if gpu would consume more.
budget for utility bills and for upgrades should be completely separate.

[De Hollandse Ezel]

引用自 Karumati：

引用自 De Hollandse Ezel：

if you want insanity.. there was sli.. it was fun running 4 way sli.. with 4 980ti.. drawing each 250w...even if that realisticly only performed about twice as good as a single 980ti... IF games even supported sli..

but even owning 1 980ti.. or titan.. you could still enjoy a reasonable powerdraw and the bragging rights of owning the best, or secondbest card of the moment.. all the while not using over 250W and not spending over 700, or 1100 euro respectively..

sli is not a thing anymore
my current 3090 has very reasonable powerdraw and there is no problem if gpu would consume more.
budget for utility bills and for upgrades should be completely separate.

butget for utility bills and upgrades should be united.

-> I buy a pc to use.. like a car..
I factor in how many miles will I drive with it
just as I willf factor in how many hours will I game with it.

I have a set budget to forfill that transportation or in this case gaming demand..
that translates to a fixed budget per km driven..
or per hour played

if the car becomes less fuel efficient.. than i have less budget to buy a car..
equal to how if an hour of gaming is more demanding in powerdraw.. I have less budget to buy a card.

and if your from a nation with reaally high fuel, or in this case electricity prices.. that have also gone considerably up.. that means even less budget..

it quite frankly means its better to spend 20k on a car with a higher fuel efficiency than 10k on a car with a lower fuel effiency..
your total experience will be cheaper..

and nobody not even those on large budgets.. have limitedless budget..

would you like if you were able to drive a nice audi or ferrari to be forced to drive a lousy little fiat..? despite still being in the same income bracket? no you would not.

sure a few oilsheiks will say "look how much performance those latest ferrari have"
who cares they use 10 liter per meter driven... and cost 50 million each...

but you miss the days you were able to drive ferrari and it was not for only THAT elite few

[C1REX]

High end GPUs don’t consume maximum power all the time. Most GPUs consume very little in idle.

High end GPUs don’t need to work at 100% all the time. Easy to run games will consume less power. Setting an FPS limit between 60-144fps will often reduce power consumption.

I have the 7900XTX that uses 380W when pushed to the limit. However, when I play Tekken 8 at high settings (not ultra) at fake 4K with TSR upscaling, the GPU consumes 170W, less than half the power at 60% utilization.

The total power consumption of my PC with the 7900XTX is almost the same as when I had the 5700XT, which was sweating at 100% in almost any game. It’s just nice to have the headroom of power when you need it.

I have a smart plug to monitor the monthly power consumption of my PC.

[De Hollandse Ezel]

引用自 Karumati：

引用自 De Hollandse Ezel：

if you want insanity.. there was sli.. it was fun running 4 way sli.. with 4 980ti.. drawing each 250w...even if that realisticly only performed about twice as good as a single 980ti... IF games even supported sli..

but even owning 1 980ti.. or titan.. you could still enjoy a reasonable powerdraw and the bragging rights of owning the best, or secondbest card of the moment.. all the while not using over 250W and not spending over 700, or 1100 euro respectively..

sli is not a thing anymore
my current 3090 has very reasonable powerdraw and there is no problem if gpu would consume more.
budget for utility bills and for upgrades should be completely separate.

I know sli is no longer a thing.
just pointing out it is a more elegant solution for those few who want madness like that.

a 3090 has NOT a reasonable powerdraw..

the best card of each generation even titans should not draw over 250w.. period.
they never did..

and cards in the midend like xx70 should use closer to 120-140W not 200-220 as they do now..

so the to high powerdraw is true across the board.

[De Hollandse Ezel]

and while I do think that lowering prices AND tdp should happen..

tdp has by far the largest influence of fact you are forced in a lower bracket... so even if prices not drop as much as they should at least tdp should drop back into the normal range..

[Karumati]

引用自 De Hollandse Ezel：

引用自 Karumati：

sli is not a thing anymore
my current 3090 has very reasonable powerdraw and there is no problem if gpu would consume more.
budget for utility bills and for upgrades should be completely separate.

butget for utility bills and upgrades should be united.

-> I buy a pc to use.. like a car..
I factor in how many miles will I drive with it
just as I willf factor in how many hours will I game with it.

I have a set budget to forfill that transportation or in this case gaming demand..
that translates to a fixed budget per km driven..
or per hour played

if the car becomes less fuel efficient.. than i have less budget to buy a car..
equal to how if an hour of gaming is more demanding in powerdraw.. I have less budget to buy a card.

and if your from a nation with reaally high fuel, or in this case electricity prices.. that have also gone considerably up.. that means even less budget..

it quite frankly means its better to spend 20k on a car with a higher fuel efficiency than 10k on a car with a lower fuel effiency..
your total experience will be cheaper..

and nobody not even those on large budgets.. have limitedless budget..

would you like if you were able to drive a nice audi or ferrari to be forced to drive a lousy little fiat..? despite still being in the same income bracket? no you would not.

sure a few oilsheiks will say "look how much performance those latest ferrari have"
who cares they use 10 liter per meter driven... and cost 50 million each...

but you miss the days you were able to drive ferrari and it was not for only THAT elite few

when i was buying a car or pc parts, or even games i would use my savings, not the same balance i use for bills.
It's a normal thing for adults to set something aside.

[De Hollandse Ezel]

引用自 Karumati：

引用自 De Hollandse Ezel：

butget for utility bills and upgrades should be united.

-> I buy a pc to use.. like a car..
I factor in how many miles will I drive with it
just as I willf factor in how many hours will I game with it.

I have a set budget to forfill that transportation or in this case gaming demand..
that translates to a fixed budget per km driven..
or per hour played

if the car becomes less fuel efficient.. than i have less budget to buy a car..
equal to how if an hour of gaming is more demanding in powerdraw.. I have less budget to buy a card.

and if your from a nation with reaally high fuel, or in this case electricity prices.. that have also gone considerably up.. that means even less budget..

it quite frankly means its better to spend 20k on a car with a higher fuel efficiency than 10k on a car with a lower fuel effiency..
your total experience will be cheaper..

and nobody not even those on large budgets.. have limitedless budget..

would you like if you were able to drive a nice audi or ferrari to be forced to drive a lousy little fiat..? despite still being in the same income bracket? no you would not.

sure a few oilsheiks will say "look how much performance those latest ferrari have"
who cares they use 10 liter per meter driven... and cost 50 million each...

but you miss the days you were able to drive ferrari and it was not for only THAT elite few

when i was buying a car or pc parts, or even games i would use my savings, not the same balance i use for bills.
It's a normal thing for adults to set something aside.

Nope it's a normal thing for adults to put everything they own their entire lifestile as costs per month.

I factor in how long will this last before it breaks/needs to be replaced
how much cost it to operate..

that gives a cost per month..

this is true for everything I own.. furniture electronics, vehicles, and yes my pc as wel..
this allows me to see long in advance when I live above my means..
and it also shows me how much to set aside each month.. those are not savings.. they are the balance for "writeoffs" on the stuff I own... the neth sum of stuff I own + that amount on savings is always the same..
=
if costs somewhere in that rise.. it means it pushes me above my means.. even if those with less good financial skills won't see it until it's way to late..
and I will have to make cuts..
basicly it imediatly shows me when I live above my means.. if I can actually afford my current lifestyle..

just having 10k and buying nice stuff now.. does not mean you can afford to upkeep that lifestile in perpetual.. which is how I look.

many idiots (so I see them) dion't do that.. everytime their car breaks, or washing machine breaks they flipt out for how are they going to pay for that..
often ending in those jackasses cutting on birthday gifts for others (aka being a greedy ahole). or their children being allowed to go to schooltrips.. or delaying replacing other stuff or not go on holiday..
-> you often see in such household everything they own slowly getting in an ever worse state of repair... as they just cannot fathom costs per month.

I may have tens of thousands on my savings.. but is it all earmarked for other things.. and if I allocate more to pc.. I will have to make drastic cuts in other departments..
money i have is NEVER just money I can mindlessly spend..

the right time to start saving for a new pc.. is when you just got one.. I don;t look at pc purchases as 3000 euro for one.. but as x euro per month in perperual.
the cost of running the thing is deduced from that... so if I pick more powerhungy parts.. I can spend less

so you see I actually do VERY sound finance..
thats why you always should factor in the TOTAL cost of a certain quality of life factor.,. and determine what it cost you per month to uphold that quality..
and do that for everything..
if that adding up adds up to more than you make/can afford.. you are living above your means and you should cut on things NOW not when ♥♥♥♥ hits the fat..
and even if it does not.. you can make alterations NOW so that things that ACTUALLY have higher priority can be given more budget.. instead of mindlessly pumping it in things that add less to your quality of life.

so you allocate your budget in such a way that the per months costs add up to the maximum gain in quality of life.
and cost here is NOT bills it is.. ALL costs calculated in.. as stated a large part of those costs will be locked in as savings..

[C1REX]

引用自 De Hollandse Ezel：

I agree with you, and as a self-employed, I often calculate how much something will cost me per year.

However, the power draw cost is not as straightforward to calculate when some top-end, high power target models can use less power in some scenarios than lower end models from the previous generation.

If power consumption were everything, then I would switch to laptop or handheld gaming. If being 100% financially responsible were my target, then I would quit gaming. There is also an aspect of self motivation when you want to make more money so you can afford a 1000W GPU.