RTX 5090 70% faster vs RTX 4090 ?!?

[Raoul]

750W cards incoming or are they just going to show us some slides of a very specific optimised use case in a single program?

https://www.pcgamesn.com/nvidia/geforce-rtx-5090-performance

Edit: 675W*

[De Hollandse Ezel]

waffleciocc původně napsal:

De Hollandse Ezel původně napsal:

THATS the line up I want to see

Thank God you're not in charge of any Nvidia products

why? it be FANTASTIC...

lets face it... VERY few people own a 4090 right now..

whats marketshare?
most will likely still own a 2xxx or 3xxx series or even older.. and those that do own 4xxx series likely most own 4070 or lower...

and we don't NEED a large jump in peformance... with the said lowering in prices..
for most they will get a lot better product for the same money... WITH a high boost in performance..

high end users.. still get to enjoy the fact "they got bragging rights of owning the best there is"
without needing to spend quite as much.. which is great for all they want is bragging rigts..

the sceme as set... will both in energy bill AND pricing put 4k a lot closer to a lot of users..

than with the current trend of insane powerdraws and insane prices...

a xx70 was historicly 350 euro.. an titan or xx90 1100 euro.. and used 250W..
todays prices.. and powerdraw is just out of control.

and that serves no one..

[spicy little monkey]

De Hollandse Ezel původně napsal:

and we don't NEED a large jump in peformance.

Tell that to all the games in the world that have minimal/zero physics interaction. Water looks fake. Fire looks fake. Smoke looks fake. Destruction looks fake. Character models look fake.

[De Hollandse Ezel]

mid end gaming used to cost 350 euro for an xx70 and 500 euro for an xx80.

high end gaming 700 euro for an xx80ti and 1100 euro for an titan/xx90

and xx60 at 200 euro was considered low end gaming

and NOBODY would consider gaming on an xx50 those were considered "office cards"

[spicy little monkey]

De Hollandse Ezel původně napsal:

mid end gaming used to cost

Yeah, and movies tickets used to cost 50 cents.

This is the present, not the past.
Go look up how much a 5nm TSMC wafer costs, compared to 28nm.

[De Hollandse Ezel]

waffleciocc původně napsal:

De Hollandse Ezel původně napsal:

and we don't NEED a large jump in peformance.

Tell that to all the games in the world that have minimal/zero physics interaction. Water looks fake. Fire looks fake. Smoke looks fake. Destruction looks fake. Character models look fake.

I have gamed in the 80s.. you are just spoiled.
I also play mostly strategy and occational some rpg.. looks all fine to me..
I do care about 4k more cause it will give me more of the map in 1 field of sight..
which is a strategic advantage.. but only if I keep decent enough fps to micro well..,.

and many games just lack proper coding.. gpu's should not be made to make up for lazy game developers not coding well..

[spicy little monkey]

De Hollandse Ezel původně napsal:

I have gamed in the 80s.. you are just spoiled.

LOL
Have a nice day.

[De Hollandse Ezel]

waffleciocc původně napsal:

De Hollandse Ezel původně napsal:

mid end gaming used to cost

Yeah, and movies tickets used to cost 50 cents.

This is the present, not the past.
Go look up how much a 5nm TSMC wafer costs, compared to 28nm.

gpu prices were like that for over 15 years... and in the prices I listed.. I already corrected those for the ACTUAL inflation.

TDP never went up... performance at those TDP should go up.
so to with 3xxx and 4xxx yank powerdraw up to insane just is very bad gpu design.

and even before those pricespikes if you skipped a generation..
the 80ti and 70 of 2 generaitons apart would peform equal but that newer 70 would use more like 120w. aka halve. with that 70 always costing around 350 euro...
alternatively like the difference between two x80ti caards 2 generations apart was double performance while that newer 80ti also costed around 700 euro.. and used the same 250w

THATS progress
what we now have is not progress.

[De Hollandse Ezel]

with todays prices esentially 4070 and everything above are priced for just 10% or less of the marked..

as traditionally 700 euro would get you the secondbest card and 1100 euro the best.. now an 4070S is already 700..

while the 4060 that used to be the lowend card... is now a midend priced card..

and lowend? you will be forced to get an 3050 to get anywhere near prices that are in that range..

if you factor in the cost of electitricy (50 cent per kwh).. and the risen powerdraw. than at the same budget.. peoples performance actually has dropped..

[De Hollandse Ezel]

asking geforce to correct this error.. and restore their lineup to the prices they historicly had + the real world inflation...

yes it's a more expensive production proces.. but we are years further.. production processes have gotten more efficient and thus cheaper.. fact is the cost to make the best chips has not considerebly risen.. as stated even a 4090 cost no more than 450 euro to make the entire card including the chip.

what has changed is : worse design causing in higher powerdraw...
or put different.. they have not invested enough in R&D and thus hidden marginal performance gains by yanking up powerdraw into the insane.. a proper chip would not need that kind of draws for that or even better performance..

while also their profit % has gone insane...

they can just do fine with similair budgets for R&D and similair performance gains, tdp draws and prices for products as they used to have upto 2016 for over 15 years...
they made a healthy profitmagin of 30% back than and if they returned to it they still would..

they just not make like 70% to 85% profitmargins as they do now... they are RAKING it in.. while not delivering the goods.

[Karumati]

De Hollandse Ezel původně napsal:

a 5090 consuming 250W costing 1400 euro including 21% vat, and performing 10% above a 4090,

a 5580ti consuming 250W, costing 900 euro including 21% vat and performing about the same as a 4090


a 5080 consuming 200W, costing 650 euro including 21% vat and performing about the same as a 4080super

a 5070 consuming 180W, costing 450 euro, including 21% vat and performing about the same as a 4080

a 5060 consuming 120W costing 250 euro, including 21% vat and performing about the same as a 4070

a 5050 consuming 80W, costing 190 euro, including 21% vat and performing about the same as a 4060


THATS the line up I want to see.,

explenation : each of these models used these amounts of watt historicly upto the 2xxx series.. so it corrects the powerdraw per model back to what it was for over 15 years.

it also correct the prices for each model back to what the historically were upto the 1xxx series.. for over a decade... before with the 2xxx series prices went insane...
ofcourse I have applied the normal inflation % between 2016 and 2024.. on top of that historic pricerange.


so with powerdraws like this.. and prices like this.. nvidea would be back to what they were doing from the 2xx series all the way to the 1xxx series.. when they did things right.

nvidea makes INSANE profits.. they not NEED these high prices... and they can also easely spend some more in getting that TDP down by applying better research in their chip designs. returning to more normal profitmargins as they used to do before crypto made them lazy in their designs and greedy in their pricings.

while a relative low progress in performance.. would not be nice.. with amd not planning to make any top models.. and lower pricing and powerdraw more an issue.. it be ok if performance would not increase that much..

dollar per performance & performance per watt would still massively improve.. which for now is more important to the market... than raw performance gain.

and yes these prices are totally feasable.. cost to make a 4090 for example.. just 450 euro.. not the chip.. an entire card.. ofcourse third faction cards might cost a bit more than the models nvidea makes themselves.. but can't be that much more..
price today in store : 2200 euro... those are ludicrus margins...


I like gaming.. I want them to make profit.. so they can put that into designing the next generaion.. but this much profit.. while quite frankly slacking in the research & design department.. thats not ok..
they may make a HEALTHY profit.. this.. is just insanity..

250w is too little for high performance gpu’s

[De Hollandse Ezel]

Karumati původně napsal:

De Hollandse Ezel původně napsal:

a 5090 consuming 250W costing 1400 euro including 21% vat, and performing 10% above a 4090,

a 5580ti consuming 250W, costing 900 euro including 21% vat and performing about the same as a 4090


a 5080 consuming 200W, costing 650 euro including 21% vat and performing about the same as a 4080super

a 5070 consuming 180W, costing 450 euro, including 21% vat and performing about the same as a 4080

a 5060 consuming 120W costing 250 euro, including 21% vat and performing about the same as a 4070

a 5050 consuming 80W, costing 190 euro, including 21% vat and performing about the same as a 4060


THATS the line up I want to see.,

explenation : each of these models used these amounts of watt historicly upto the 2xxx series.. so it corrects the powerdraw per model back to what it was for over 15 years.

it also correct the prices for each model back to what the historically were upto the 1xxx series.. for over a decade... before with the 2xxx series prices went insane...
ofcourse I have applied the normal inflation % between 2016 and 2024.. on top of that historic pricerange.

250W was always what "the best gpu of today" and usually the 2d best also.. used..

so with powerdraws like this.. and prices like this.. nvidea would be back to what they were doing from the 2xx series all the way to the 1xxx series.. when they did things right.

nvidea makes INSANE profits.. they not NEED these high prices... and they can also easely spend some more in getting that TDP down by applying better research in their chip designs. returning to more normal profitmargins as they used to do before crypto made them lazy in their designs and greedy in their pricings.

while a relative low progress in performance.. would not be nice.. with amd not planning to make any top models.. and lower pricing and powerdraw more an issue.. it be ok if performance would not increase that much..

dollar per performance & performance per watt would still massively improve.. which for now is more important to the market... than raw performance gain.

and yes these prices are totally feasable.. cost to make a 4090 for example.. just 450 euro.. not the chip.. an entire card.. ofcourse third faction cards might cost a bit more than the models nvidea makes themselves.. but can't be that much more..
price today in store : 2200 euro... those are ludicrus margins...


I like gaming.. I want them to make profit.. so they can put that into designing the next generaion.. but this much profit.. while quite frankly slacking in the research & design department.. thats not ok..
they may make a HEALTHY profit.. this.. is just insanity..

250w is too little for high performance gpu’s

nope.. every top gpu upto the 2080ti.. from those made 20 years earlier used 250W..

every titan.. every x90, x85 or x80ti whatever for that series was the best card at the moment..

only with the 3000 series.. all of the sudden the titan started to demand 450w.. were before they always used 250w..

250w is PLENTY for the best card in a lineup.. it always was..

using 450w is basicly "we have not put enough in r&d to create a new chip.. that can do the normal increase performance by 40%.. keep powerdraw the same... lets just pump insane amounts of power trough it so it on paper at least has a bit of a performance gain even though it actually is nearly the same chip.

they maneged for many decades to every 2 generations double the performance.. while keeping the best card always at that 250w...

its the 3000 seriues that broke that tradition..

likewise the best card always costed about 1100 euro.. the secondbest 700.. that traditoon was broken with the 2000 series...

and not cause they have to.. they just have put less in r&d and yanked up their profitmargins.

[spicy little monkey]

De Hollandse Ezel původně napsal:

nope.. every top gpu upto the 2080ti.. from those made 20 years earlier used 250W..

I've proven this was incorrect about 50 times in the past week.

My 1080 Ti used 310w.

[De Hollandse Ezel]

waffleciocc původně napsal:

De Hollandse Ezel původně napsal:

nope.. every top gpu upto the 2080ti.. from those made 20 years earlier used 250W..

I've proven this was incorrect about 50 times in the past week.

My 1080 Ti used 310w.

did you have an overclocked model?

my 2080ti uses 250w.. the pump to cool it.. thats another story... but that single 2080ti uses 250.. so did the 980ti.,. and the titan black.. and the 580.. and every card I had that always was the best or secondbest lonmg before it..

you want to argue tdp =/= actual draw...
I grand you that as draw will matter on load..
but higher tdp = more draw..
and usualy max draw = tdp.

you want to argue that some brands sell factory overclocked varients..
I grand you that.. but again not the factory model nor the chip does that.

fact is todays chips have RI-DI-CU-LOUS powerdraw
and todays chips have RI-DI-CU-LOUS prices.. even if you correct traditional prices for inflation.
both show in nvidea's profitmargin and neth profit goine trough the roof..

the prices are NOT tthis high cause they cost that much more to make
and the chips are clearly not as well designed as they could.. basicly we see what intel used to do.. to expensive chips.. and very ltitle spend on r&d.. due the lack of competion..

you saw how much they held back.. when that competiion arrived suddenly the product leaped lightyears in progress.. and prices plummeteth... showing how much they overcharged and how much they did not sell what they could make.,.

ofcourse a good compagny does not HAVE to do this.,. even with essentially a monopoly.. nvidea could think.. I not NEED maximum profit.. I want to just give gamers a nice experience.. so I just take a nice 30% profitmargin.. thats enough.. and keep doing good r&d and charge reasonable prices.. so my gamers who have been my customers for decades are served well..

[spicy little monkey]

De Hollandse Ezel původně napsal:

did you have an overclocked model?

Start learning about Nvidia GPU boost. It's something that can't be disabled, by the way.

[It's Chase]

As long as it's atleast 25% faster I'll be upgrading from my 4090.