Is this why G-Sync + Vsync is recommended when gaming?

[Iggy Wolf]

I didn't know why people always say to turn on Vsync along with G-Sync when gaming. I rarely have the FPS go above my refresh rate (165 Hz) so I rarely experience tearing. However, recently enabling Vsync in games like Uncharted 4, RDR2, and Spiderman Remastered suddenly made my game be MUCH smoother, and input lag seems to have been reduced to almost zero. I didn't realize that apart from removing screen tearing, activating vsync with G-Sync would also reduce latency and input lag. Hard to believe that this whole time, I struggled with not knowing why my movement seemed sluggish despite having G-Sync on.

Question though, do ALL games benefit from G-Sync+Vsync or can some games still be pretty smooth and latency free with just G-Sync and an FPS cap? I'm guessing Vsync being turned on as well is more useful when a game's FPS doesn't go much above 60 (between 60 and 82), since it keeps the refresh rate better synced when the FPS drops, preventing G-Sync from desyncing or trying to keep up when FPS fluctuates. I even notice that the FPS starts to fluctuate less and is more smooth even when it does slightly drop.

[Zef]

Depends on your monitor/tv and if you can actually hit your refresh rate.

I would never use vsync in competitive titles like CS2 and such but for the majority of games it's absolutely fine.

[Iggy Wolf]

Publicado originalmente por Zef:

Depends on your monitor/tv and if you can actually hit your refresh rate.

I would never use vsync in competitive titles like CS2 and such but for the majority of games it's absolutely fine.

I mean, I'd never use vsync by itself. Unlike G-Sync, it does introduce input lag and only syncs in intervals (60, 120, 144, 165 etc). It seems like vsync's "input latency" is actually reduced when combined with G-Sync, resulting in smoother gameplay.

[emoticorpse]

I've never used v-sync regularly. I've experimented maybe once or twice with it and both times it introduced a weird "input delay" or whatever to the point where I'm not sure anybody could game like that.

So not sure what was up with me applying it, but lucky I guess my games have always worked perfectly without it. If I do get screen tearing, it's never bugged me enough to look for a fix.

As far as the G-sync, not sure at all. I don't even have a G-sync monitor and hear they're expensive so I probably never will.

[C1REX]

G-Sync/VRR/FreeSync is a must for me but I personally use FPS limiter to not go out of monitor refresh rate instead of using V-sync.

[Iggy Wolf]

Publicado originalmente por emoticorpse:

I've never used v-sync regularly. I've experimented maybe once or twice with it and both times it introduced a weird "input delay" or whatever to the point where I'm not sure anybody could game like that.

So not sure what was up with me applying it, but lucky I guess my games have always worked perfectly without it. If I do get screen tearing, it's never bugged me enough to look for a fix.

As far as the G-sync, not sure at all. I don't even have a G-sync monitor and hear they're expensive so I probably never will.

I mean, that's why I never used it either, since without G-Sync, it does introduce input delay. But apparently, the common advice is to have vsync on (usually more so in NVCP than in-game) alongside G-Sync, and an FPS cap.

Without G-Sync though, it causes the input delay since it doesn't sync the refresh rate with the FPS but rather to the screen's refresh rate. I certainly wouldn't use it in every instance. Also, my monitor isn't a "G-Sync monitor" but a Freesync monitor that's G-Sync Compatible.

[Bad 💀 Motha]

Turning V-Sync OFF in games like GTAV and RDR2 is a must, unless you are for some reason experiencing odd sync related issues in the Story Mode Cut-Scenes. Otherwise it is rather pointless in these games. But keep Triple Buffering on. All Rockstar Games have a bug that if you enable their in-game VSync, it sorely exaturates the loading times. Fallout 4 is the same way. For Fallout 4, since VSync Off might mean a ridiculous FPS the game doesn't like, then yes this game you might need to apply an FPS Max Limit to.

RDR2 basically must run in Borderless Window or you will experience odd UI related issues or random crashes when in Full Screen. Plus it jumps back to Borderless Window if you ALT+TAB out of the game anyways.

If using GSync, set the option that allows both Windowed and Full Screen apps to use it. So that running games in borderless window w/ gsync won't be a problem.

Set NVIDIA Vertical Sync to either Fast or Adaptive and see which works best for you.

Disable VSync in all games.

Set NVIDIA Low Latency to ULTRA. If this appears to cause any stutter to a game, change this to ON instead and then re-test said game.

I have experienced a few games however where if I turn it off, the FPS counter is showing some BS like 1000 FPS; then the game might have an odd bug where VSync needs to be on. But those games are kind of rare. Most of them are not "3D world" types of games.

[Iggy Wolf]

Publicado originalmente por Bad 💀 Motha:

Turning V-Sync OFF in games like GTAV and RDR2 is a must, unless you are for some reason experiencing odd sync related issues in the Story Mode Cut-Scenes. Otherwise it is rather pointless in these games. But keep Triple Buffering on. All Rockstar Games have a bug that if you enable their in-game VSync, it sorely exaturates the loading times. Fallout 4 is the same way. For Fallout 4, since VSync Off might mean a ridiculous FPS the game doesn't like, then yes this game you might need to apply an FPS Max Limit to.

RDR2 basically must run in Borderless Window or you will experience odd UI related issues or random crashes when in Full Screen. Plus it jumps back to Borderless Window if you ALT+TAB out of the game anyways.

If using GSync, set the option that allows both Windowed and Full Screen apps to use it. So that running games in borderless window w/ gsync won't be a problem.

Set NVIDIA Vertical Sync to either Fast or Adaptive and see which works best for you.

Disable VSync in all games.

Set NVIDIA Low Latency to ULTRA. If this appears to cause any stutter to a game, change this to ON instead and then re-test said game.

I have experienced a few games however where if I turn it off, the FPS counter is showing some BS like 1000 FPS; then the game might have an odd bug where VSync needs to be on. But those games are kind of rare. Most of them are not "3D world" types of games.

I rarely have any of the issues you describe. In fact, having Vsync off in RDR2 is exactly what led to the game feeling more slow, sluggish, and the input being delayed. Also, running it in Full Screen makes the game MORE stable for me, as it rarely crashes. And G-Sync doesn't play as well with Borderless Fullscreen as it does with regular. Even if there is an option in the NVCP.

Plus, Borderless causes the GPU temps to be higher since it's also rendering the desktop in the background. Like I said, if anything, having Vsync OFF led to a lot of my games NOT being as smooth and latency free as they could be. Especially since the common suggestion is to run Freesync/G-Sync WITH Vsync ON in the NVCP and an FPS cap.

There ARE games that might not like Vsync, but that's also why it's suggested to do in the driver instead of the game. I actually keep Ultra Low Latency off, as some of the games now have Nvidia Reflex, which makes NULL redundant. I only enable it in games that don't have it and which might benefit from it. I try to do things on a per-game basis as opposed to setting it in Global.

[Bad 💀 Motha]

Are you running Win10 or 11?

You do realize NVIDIA Low Latency and Reflex are not the same thing?

Low Latency is a re-named setting that used to be label as Pre-Rendered Frames.

Low Latency = Ultra basically is same as "Pre-Rendered Frames = 1"

[Iggy Wolf]

Publicado originalmente por Bad 💀 Motha:

Are you running Win10 or 11?

You do realize NVIDIA Low Latency and Reflex are not the same thing?

Low Latency is a re-named setting that used to be label as Pre-Rendered Frames.

Low Latency = Ultra basically is same as "Pre-Rendered Frames = 1"

I'm sure they're not the same thing, but generally speaking, they're both involved in reducing latency. I'm on Win 10. Like I said, I don't enable these settings globally cause they don't always benefit all games. Especially since Low Latency doesn't work on games that aren't DX9/10/11. Basically, Vulkan, OpenGL, and DX12.

Which means it isn't of much use on most newer games, unless DX11 is an option. RDR2 only has Vulkan and DX12, so I use Reflex because Low Latency wouldn't work anyway. In fact, I can't say I even noticed a difference with Reflex being on until I actually enabled Vsync. Especially since my GPU wasn't constantly at 99% usage.

[Bad 💀 Motha]

All of that is good and all but it's still going to vary on a PC by PC, game by game basis.

Here's some particular issues I have with RDR2 though. I have yet to see where running the game full screen helps anything. The performance I've seen on over 6 different PCs is exact same performance whether game is Full Screen or Borderless Window. VSync from NVIDIA might help but the one in-game is trash and makes the game take forever to load scenes and map mission transitions and such.

Also whenever I run it in Full Screen and need to ALT+TAB, the game jumps into Borderless Window automatically and when this happens I lose the ability to use Steam Overlay anymore unless the game is restarted.

Now back before Steam Client updated around April/May 2023, I never once had this problem. So it might be an issue between the game (Vulkan vs DX12 is not making any difference here) and Steam in terms of the Overlay no longer working when the game makes such a transition. So for me, running GSync for all apps and running RDR2 in Borderless is a must so I can use Steam Overlay and also ALT+TAB as needed. My screen is both FreeSync Premium and Adaptive Sync all that the same time so VSync doesn't help me one bit except if old or poorly coded games are showing a ridiculous FPS like 500, 1000, etc. Then I turn on VSync and I get 165 or less

[Iggy Wolf]

Publicado originalmente por Bad 💀 Motha:

All of that is good and all but it's still going to vary on a PC by PC, game by game basis.

Here's some particular issues I have with RDR2 though. I have yet to see where running the game full screen helps anything. The performance I've seen on over 6 different PCs is exact same performance whether game is Full Screen or Borderless Window. VSync from NVIDIA might help but the one in-game is trash and makes the game take forever to load scenes and map mission transitions and such.

Also whenever I run it in Full Screen and need to ALT+TAB, the game jumps into Borderless Window automatically and when this happens I lose the ability to use Steam Overlay anymore unless the game is restarted.

Now back before Steam Client updated around April/May 2023, I never once had this problem. So it might be an issue between the game (Vulkan vs DX12 is not making any difference here) and Steam in terms of the Overlay no longer working when the game makes such a transition. So for me, running GSync for all apps and running RDR2 in Borderless is a must so I can use Steam Overlay and also ALT+TAB as needed. My screen is both FreeSync Premium and Adaptive Sync all that the same time so VSync doesn't help me one bit except if old or poorly coded games are showing a ridiculous FPS like 500, 1000, etc. Then I turn on VSync and I get 165 or less

I mean, for me, RDR2 is installed on an SSD. So loading times are pretty quick regardless. I can't say they're slow with Vsync on, since I've died multiple times and it would show the next scene pretty quick. Like I said, I also have Freesync/G-Sync, with Reflex On, a 72 FPS cap, and Vsync with Triple Buffering On. But I also have one TAA mod using Lenny's Mod Loader, and whether LML is responsible or the game's engine, I'll still have microstuttering/stuttering every now and then, even with the smoother gameplay and reduced latency.

My understanding is that the loading screens are only as fast as the FPS, so if one limits their FPS too low, that makes the loading screens also take longer. For me, they never go below 50 while loading. I can't speak for other people's experiences. If the game's installed on an HDD, the loading screens will definitely be longer regardless.

Like I said, for me, having vsync off was resulting in input lag and delay, even with Reflex and G-Sync on. I didn't expect Vsync to suddenly improve that when I turned it on, but it did since I noticed that it improved the same performance in Spiderman Remastered. So I'm not complaining.

[Bad 💀 Motha]

I don't really see the point of a 72 FPS cap unless going above 90-100 is making your CPU struggle. If your Sync settings are working properly and the game doesn't jump too swiftly in FPS swings; such as jump from 100 down to 30 or some BS. Then overall you should have a generally smooth, non-motion-blur experience without screen-tearing.

FPS Caps in general are better suited for folks who's Display does not have built-in Adaptive Sync.

But yes again, not all games play smoothly like this. Some might need an FPS Cap, such as Fallout 4 for example. Most will not.

[Iggy Wolf]

Publicado originalmente por Bad 💀 Motha:

I don't really see the point of a 72 FPS cap unless going above 90-100 is making your CPU struggle. If your Sync settings are working properly and the game doesn't jump too swiftly in FPS swings; such as jump from 100 down to 30 or some BS. Then overall you should have a generally smooth, non-motion-blur experience without screen-tearing.

FPS Caps in general are better suited for folks who's Display does not have built-in Adaptive Sync.

But yes again, not all games play smoothly like this. Some might need an FPS Cap, such as Fallout 4 for example. Most will not.

I put a 72 FPS cap because my FPS jumps between 80 and 60. No point in having the FPS jumping all over the place if it stay at a consistent 72 at least. The only time it goes as high as my monitor's refresh rate is the menu, which I don't need running at highest FPS anyway. Plus, like I said, the game stutters, and those stutters become more prevalent when the FPS is uncapped. That, and the TAA mod I'm using depends on a certain framerate, as the game's TAA's "blur" is dependent also on how fast the game runs. If the FPS goes higher, it also makes the game's TAA blur even MORE blurrier. I prefer my screen NOT looking like vaseline smearing.

[Old Habits Die Hard]

Publicado originalmente por Iggy Wolf:

I didn't know why people always say to turn on Vsync along with G-Sync when gaming. I rarely have the FPS go above my refresh rate (165 Hz) so I rarely experience tearing. However, recently enabling Vsync in games like Uncharted 4, RDR2, and Spiderman Remastered suddenly made my game be MUCH smoother, and input lag seems to have been reduced to almost zero. I didn't realize that apart from removing screen tearing, activating vsync with G-Sync would also reduce latency and input lag. Hard to believe that this whole time, I struggled with not knowing why my movement seemed sluggish despite having G-Sync on.

Question though, do ALL games benefit from G-Sync+Vsync or can some games still be pretty smooth and latency free with just G-Sync and an FPS cap? I'm guessing Vsync being turned on as well is more useful when a game's FPS doesn't go much above 60 (between 60 and 82), since it keeps the refresh rate better synced when the FPS drops, preventing G-Sync from desyncing or trying to keep up when FPS fluctuates. I even notice that the FPS starts to fluctuate less and is more smooth even when it does slightly drop.

When Gsync is enabled, the Vsync Off/On doesn't actually control if Vsync is Off/On since when Gsync is engaged and within its range it is the only sync method in use.

When Gsync is enabled Vsync Off/On actually controls 2 things:

1 - Should Gsync compensate for frametime variances? On = Yes / Off = No
2 - If Gsync goes above its range should Gsync revert to Vsync behavior or disengage? On = Revert / Off = Disengage

You always want Vsync On when using Gsync and you should always use an FPS limit to make sure that your FPS does not exceed Gsync range.

Edit: Just realized this is a year old. Oh well it's still good information so it's worth leaving.

[Pocahawtness]

Publicado originalmente por Iggy Wolf:

I didn't know why people always say to turn on Vsync along with G-Sync when gaming. I rarely have the FPS go above my refresh rate (165 Hz) so I rarely experience tearing. However, recently enabling Vsync in games like Uncharted 4, RDR2, and Spiderman Remastered suddenly made my game be MUCH smoother, and input lag seems to have been reduced to almost zero. I didn't realize that apart from removing screen tearing, activating vsync with G-Sync would also reduce latency and input lag. Hard to believe that this whole time, I struggled with not knowing why my movement seemed sluggish despite having G-Sync on.

Question though, do ALL games benefit from G-Sync+Vsync or can some games still be pretty smooth and latency free with just G-Sync and an FPS cap? I'm guessing Vsync being turned on as well is more useful when a game's FPS doesn't go much above 60 (between 60 and 82), since it keeps the refresh rate better synced when the FPS drops, preventing G-Sync from desyncing or trying to keep up when FPS fluctuates. I even notice that the FPS starts to fluctuate less and is more smooth even when it does slightly drop.

Everyone has their own preferred settings.

What I do is set the Max Frame Rate in the NVIDIA Control Panel to 2 less than the refresh rate of the monitor. That avoids any problems and I can leave VSync off. In the per-game settings, I might set it even lower.