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Even if I try to do express installation, and something goes wrong, adrenalin will typically start the failsafe process
All drivers should have DDU functionality built in. Is there any good reason why it’s not part of NVIDIA, AMD and Intel drivers?
Even more weird is the fact that AMD has its own version of DDU called AMD cleanup utility that is advised to be used even for updates.
What I was saying was in response to someone who suggested "you shouldn't have to use DDU to get AMD to work right" and my point was using DDU is not some AMD thing specifically. It's a thing some people do to clean drivers regardless of starting or ending point.
Those only clean AMD's own drivers and not nVidia's or Intel's. I think that's akin to nVidia's "clean install" option, and then some?
DDU can exist because it can be treated as a "use at your own risk" third party thing. I guess formally making something to remove files from competitors software is a different thing entirely. And it's another thing to manage when DDU already exists.
Oh, ok. I do get what you're saying now. In seeing what you're saying though, I will say this and that this is what I notice on both you and his posts combined (and this is purely my opinion).
If he did kind of imply that DDU was used MAINLY for AMD and not really for Nvidia (which I wouldn't really agree with), I'd agree his perception might be off. I'm sure he's aware that people use DDU for Nvidia also?.
I will admit, I too hold a bias against AMD gpu's even having never owned so that I perceive them to be overall more wonky and plagued by general issues than Nvidia's lineup of products. I'll admit this might be off, especially since the only thing I'm going off is memory and what I remember other peoples' experiences are and that is not a reliable way at all to form an opinion. if I owned at least one AMD gpu (I have an igpu now, so kind of a good start) I might meet the minimum requirements for talking about them.
I also will say that I (again, this is my opinion) I think you cut AMD too much slack and I expect you to disagree with this, so I think if anything both of you may be a little off if anything.
Not trying to imply I'm right about everything. Shoot, I might be wrong now but if I am I don't know it.
It seems like when there's an issue on nVidia's side, since most people use nVidia, there is more familiarity about it, and these get categorized mentally as just an "issue". When this happens on AMD's side though? They don't just see it as an "issue". No, it's an "AMD IssueTM".
It's an unfair mental difference that nobody wants to admit.
Worse, it's partly subconscious and can happen to any of us. When I moved to my RX 7800 XT, you remember the hell I had with things at first. And there were a concerning amount of reports of what I was dealing with online, especially for a supposedly less popular brand, so I was even suspecting there was something to it (although my thought wasn't the drivers but rather more the hardware). Yet it wasn't bad drivers, and it wasn't a consistent hardware thing either because a replacement resolved it. I did an RMA and my issue was (knocking on wood) resolved thus far. So it was just a faulty one out the gate.
I will declare that there does seem to be a lot more early failures of the exact type I had with recent Radeons, but... I have no formal numbers to back that up, so I can't make that claim.
As far as the drivers go... I did have some strangeness with 23.12.1 so yes I stayed on 23.11.1 for now. Guess what? Not long after I got my GTX 1060 I ended up staying on 373.06 for years because guess what? nVidia broke anti-aliasing in Minecraft. So if I have to stay on a driver not much newer than hardware I just got, well... not great, but nothing new. Happened with nVidia too. As for the drivers themselves... a heck of lot better than nVidia's Windows XP control panel. I can record my game with no performance loss and tiny file size with great quality (something Afterburner fails at both) because nVidia users seem to need GeForce Experience and mandatory accounts for the some of this supposed "nVidia ecosystem advantage".
And as far as drivers go, the recent handful of years sort of make this bad timing for nVidia users to be claiming AMD has "driver issues". How long has it been since Chromium applications haven't been playing well with certain nVidia GPUs and drivers now? Years. Resident Evil 2 was lovely with nVidia too. Multiple issues there. Supposedly issues with HDR in the recent couple of drivers (not sure of the details but I think certain SDR content loses color depth in certain cases?). Why are recent drivers breaking transparency on older GPUs? About those forced updates... yeah nVidia is getting those too. Let's no kid ourselves here and pretend AMD has a wasteland of issues and that things have been paradise for nVidia.
The whole "getting banned for using a feature" on AMD's drivers was absolutely inexcusable though, I admit. Apparently people got unbanned but it was still a massive mess.
Huh?
How am I giving AMD slack (and where do I generally?) to say it's wrong to say it needs DDU to work correctly when that has nothing to do with AMD specifically and applies to both? You even agree with me here.
You seem like you're simply taking the fence sitting stance because you assume it as the most fair. No, sometimes one side is just wrong, and being a fence sitter there doesn't make you most right. This is such a case and you seemed to agree with that yourself so I'm confused by your conclusion.
Well, I'm not tying AMD to issues that tightly. I'm aware that the amount of users that have issues with Nvidia cards arrive by the boatload, I'd just say something like AMD card users "seem to exist" (from my perception of course) in higher numbers than that. Significantly more. Whether it's twice is much or who knows, I just see it as significantly higher.
So, I just want to point out that I in no way shape or form forget that Nvidia users have issues or wish to imply that Nvidia users don't face serious issues. I know they do. I realize that choosing AMD will likely result in a smooth experience, I just see the odds of issues as higher than if going Nvidia. I know both have problems
I'm also admitting this as someone who's only ever owned Nvidia and I've never had a nightmare experience with them. Even trivial annoyances are almost non-existent. But I would not let that persuade me into thinking they're perfect while AMD is terrible. I know it's a big world and both of them have their issues on certain systems being ran by different users. I just again "feel" like AMD has it more. I'll continue this later in the post.
I'm actually glad you brought this up. I'll be honest, your experience actually weighed in on my opinion on AMD. Up to your lengthy thread on your experience, I had the impression I described earlier in the thread. Pretty much that Nvidia was generally more stable and reliable while chances are AMD would likely give someone more issues over the same time period. Your experience did help solidify that a little more. Just a tiny bit more. Anecdotal story/experience by you going through it and telling us about it.
But what I'm getting at, is that I didn't know you had actually settled on the problem being fixed by the replacement part. Last I remember, we had briefly brought that thread back up and I figured you were still stuck in some kind of problematic situation, only you had pretty much learned to live with it in some way. So, I retained that and used it as the context of your AMD story.
So, if I understand correctly, you do consider the problem solved by the replacement part?. I do understand that you may still have some hesitation or resistance as to call it "ultimately in irrevocably fixed" since you might still be trying to build that confidence back in the gpu after what you went through and over time you will slowly come to the conclusion that it's fixed and you're getting there. We can just call that "problem has been resolved". I didn't know that.
So at least that's a step forward again in my respect for AMD. I really didn't know. I thought that like they sent you a messed up card, and again you were stuck again in some way with a messed up card or whatever was still going on.
No big deal, I'm just trying to kind of giving you a little insight into how my individual bias was formed. Not to say you caused it obviously.
Funny enough, since I have an igpu now (with the 7900), that does weigh a bit on my respect for AMD gpu's. I know it's not a gpu, but my system has not crashed. I have the Radeon drivers installed. I can use it to do things and I have played with it encoding and this and that and as far as I tell it operates ABSOLUTELY PERFECT. So even though, it's not a real dedicated GPU I'm messing with, it's just a small piece that goes into my weighing of the two brands.
I'm a little bit confused on this part? Was this still a Windows XP experience? Because I've never installed Geforce Experience and I'm pretty sure my game recordings with any piece of my hardware has gone good?.
I'll admit here I haven't done this extensively. The couple times I did it, I probably did it with older games and I was using OBS. I didn't pay attention to the performance hit but pretty sure it was low, especially if using the GPU encoder.
Man, I can definitely like halfway agree with you on this for sure. I remember horror stories of Nvidia users talking about "updates broke this or that". I know this happens and has happened for years. I know it still happens. I know Nvidia users go through hell. I know they do. I know it's going on as we speak, so you're right in that a current Nvidia users are having a hard time. (again, I think every gpu brand user is going to have a hard time, I just think some more than others).
But the interesting thing is I have always stayed up to date on my gpu drivers. Always. I don't really keep up anymore, but as soon as I remember to check and they're updated, I install them lickity split and I've never had issues caused by that. Never had Windows update/break them. Never had a manual install break them. I don't even remember, using DDU at all. I'm sure at some point I've used DDU, but it would have been so rarely that I can't even recount doing it.
So, again my perception is weighed out by everything. I hear all the horror stories, but at the same time my success has been pretty much 100%.
Not sure if it's because I keep my system immaculate or whatever. I don't know.
I don't even know what you're talking about here? must have something I completely missed and am unaware about? Are you talking about like on their website? or through Radeon and someone used a feature and got their account banned? I never heard of that.
Well, no my statement of you "cutting AMD too much slack" doesn't come from just this thread. This is something I've noticed and already formed my opinion on a while back. I can't even remember specifics at this point.
An example would be seeing you defend AMD in the past, still get their card, then go through what you went through, and then still believe it's not a big deal (I am trying to word this as defensively as possible because I don't want you to feel like I'm attacking you on something you're doing). I'm just trying to describe what I see as happening.
I totally see why you'd see me as "on the fence". I would expect you to see that so I'm not surprised. I think I seem like I'm on the fence because I kind of am on the fense.
I'm partial to both AMD and Nvidia, except I feel like AMD is a little less reliable overall. So, I am pretty much 50/50. I'm not condemning AMD or anything. Heck, I would have gotten an AMD card (7800 XT if I remember correctly), except it was $100 more than the 4070 at the time I got it. Otherwise I would have given AMD a shot. But for the money, I just would have rather got the 4070.
The other initial issues I had with the replacement were, if you remember, resolved when I went from 23.12.1 to 23.11.1. So yes, I did have some issues with a particular driver version (I've neither retried them nor the newer 24.1.1 either), but as I mentioned, the same exact thing happened with me regarding my GTX 1060 where I ended up staying on a particular driver for a long time.
Depending on how you look at it, an issue doesn't exist until it happens, right? It has yet to occur at all on my replacement, and it would have happened dozens of times in the timespan that has passed now, so I'm pretty confident now the issue was with the previous sample itself yes.
For some further background, I made a thread on another forum about the issue and during the course of that thread, two others replied saying they had the same issue.
One of them RMA'd their card. That resolved the issue for them as well.
The other never followed up.
No worries, you're honest about it. Like I said above, biases can run deep and even be unconscious. I was trying to consciously prevent bias from entering into it, but dealing with major stability issues for months can get frustrating, and so even I was starting to think "maybe it was my choice in AMD" even though I knew better to jump to that conclusion right away. Logically, I should have known "I had a stable system, I changed the part, so the most likely thing to try ruling out has to be the part (or drivers)" and indeed that was my thought process if you remember the thread (others were attacking my logic and blaming my PSU, etc.), but I love making things so hard on myself I mean I wanted to rule out looking over some sort of software side thing or maybe a hardware combination thing before immediately sending back what may have been a perfectly individually working product. Ended up not being a perfectly good working part after all.
We never like to think a new thing we just got is bad but it does happen. And honestly it seems more common in these post-pandemic years. I've been dealing with hardware fr some decades and probably half of my issues were in the last three or four years. That's some luck.
I never used GeForce Experience either, but isn't that how ShadowPlay or whatever is accessed?
I'm not saying you can't have good recording experiences with nVidia, even without it. I was just sharing my own experience and nothing more. My own experience was that Afterburner and recording (at least with Minecraft Java which is the only thing I record really) led to severe performance loss, but with Adrenalin's recording, there's next to no performance loss. So I had an improvement here.
Better yet, and I may have mentioned this earlier (or it was in another thread, but if it was here then sorry for repeating it), but recording with Afterburner led to files many hundreds of GB in size after like 10 minutes (like 500 GB+ per ten minutes or so?) and after a dozen minutes/600 GB+, if I ever stopped recording, the game itself would just... die. I could record longer than that and it wouldn't crash... until I went to stop recording, and only if I had recorded long enough.
As a result, I was limited in how long I could record.
I would also have to encode them myself before uploading them to Youtube (my upload speed is slow and Youtube would have taken far longer to process files half a TB or more in size...) which led to quality loss.
Adrenalin just solves all of this. No need for a handful of applications to do what Adrenalin alone does, and better for me.
One issue I've had with Adrenalin so far (since I like to be transparent) is it seems to not capture audio at times. Here's an example. The video lacks audio just because Adrenalin... didn't capture it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqHBu753Hr0
It worked fine before that. And with no change on my part, future attempts work fine.
I think I figured out why. I believe switching the game to window mode might be involved. It makes Adrenalin like... lose access to the audio stream or something? So this may be partly down to Minecraft (most things are to be honest). I wasn't happy I lost the audio for that video, so again, I'm being fully transparent of my experiences here for fairness, but overall it's been an improvement for me when it comes to recording.
But you seem far more familiar with the recording/encoding side of things. I seldom touch it. That was just my own experience with it.
I never used DDU either when doing nVidia to nVidia. Never had any issues not using it. I moved to Windows 10 in 2020 and I tried staying with 373.06 for the reason mentioned earlier. The drivers worked, but the control panel straight up failed to ever launch after restarting the PC. It was odd. The control panel would open fine right after I installed the drivers... but once I did a restart, it never launched. I searched high and low for possible causes and steps to take to resolve it but nothing helped. That forced me to update my drivers since I presumed modern Windows was part of the cause with those older drivers. Windows didn't force update me for three years... and then it did.
But my experience with nVidia's drivers was mostly positive.
Fair take, but until you've tried AMD and had failure, it seems unfair to hold their horror stories against them but not nVidia's. You know nVidia's issues exist, but they're not affecting you. That's a fair take... but then by your own logic, you should have the "I'd be willing to try anything once" to see how it goes before having an opinion on AMD either way.
That's sort of what I meant by the start of my last post, where nVidia's issues get mentally classified as "issues" but people hold issues on AMD's side not as "issues" but "AMD issues" even if they have never used AMD.
One of Adrenalin's options (Anti Lag+ I think?) was resulting in players getting banned in Counter Strike 2 I think? Basically the option did things the game's anti cheat didn't like? And people were getting banned? It was a mess. AMD disabled the option in the following driver version and eventually people (apparently?) got unbanned but it was a disaster.
I don't think I particularly "cut AMD slack" which would mean shrugging off their faults as nothing. Unless you can give examples for me to clear up I can't help you.
If you're referring to my stance on the AM5 SoC issue, informing people that it was addressed, after it was is not "cutting AMD slack". I never defended them from it happening. I merely pointed out, once it was addressed, that it was because were pretending it was still an issue. Those are two very different things.
My own issues was certainly not something I shrugged off. I sort of made a whole thread about it? In a couple of communities? And even questioned if my choice was good or not? That's the opposite of shrugging it off.
Here's the thing. Swapping the individual graphics card (RMA) made the issue go from present to not present. Draw your own conclusion on what the cause was, but "bad hardware happens" is one of them. Chalking that up as an "AMD issueTM" that I should hold against AMD seems odd to me.
Unrelated, but Sapphire's support is awesome! Just like EVGA's and Logitech's. Asus's support was a barrel of apes by comparison.
There are situations where being a fence sitter is just wrong. That's being a moderate solely for the sake of being a moderate and calling two opposite sides both wrong. That only works if both opposite sides are equally off base and your middle ground stance is reasonable. That's not always the case, and it wasn't here.
Someone suggested DDU is necessary to make AMD work and that makes it a failure on AMD's part.
I pointed out using DDU isn't necessary to get AMD to work and it's not exclusively something people do for AMD.
There is no fence sitting to be done there. One statement is wrong and the other is not.
Edit: I just realized this, but if the thread starter was trying to make low effort bait, it's ironic how we're instead having like this fair discussion about it haha.
AMD is fine.
with any nvidia card that wasnt as simple as a DDU clean install.and that was once or twice in ten years.it took me 30-40 minutes just to get her pc to recognize the card and then kept
erroring out if i used the settings its now all on default or it will keep popping errors .they are
just as unstable as there processors.probably worse.
For some reason some blockhead at Microsoft thinks it's smart to auto-install drivers (and even BIOS updates) with zero prompts to the user. I'll refrain from too much criticism before my income gets hurt.
You can try this:
[1] https://www.makeuseof.com/windows-stop-automatic-driver-updates/
You will also want to disable "optional" updates on Windows:
[2] Then delete the driver with AMD's driver utility or DDU
[3] Then install drivers from here:
https://www.amd.com/en/support
And as always if you have a super complex issue, you can always get support here:
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum
And use "feedback" if you hate a stupid feature, like the one causing your issue
Any problem with a game and you have AMD - always AMD's problem.
One of the big ones recently was The Last of Us. People were destroying the game in reviews and on YouTube for crashing when big part of the problem were nvidia drivers.
And another and more recent hotfix from NVIDIA
I wonder how many players were blaming games for micro stuttering when it was due to drivers?
Both brands have driver problems and both companies try to fix them.
"It seems like when there's an issue on nVidia's side, since most people use nVidia, there is more familiarity about it, and these get categorized mentally as just an "issue". When this happens on AMD's side though? They don't just see it as an "issue". No, it's an "AMD IssueTM"."
It's a mental difference and even unconsciously it seems to happen.