Do I have to change my PSU if I want to upgrade my cpu and gpu?

[I'm looking for a girl]

I have an Asus prime a320m-k motherboard with ryzen 3 3100 and Rx 570 gpu. PSU: CM 500w white.
I want to upgrade my cpu to Ryzen 5 5600 and to GTX 1070 (or similar).
Is 500w will be enough? Or do I have to change my PSU too?

[r.linder]

Origineel geplaatst door smallcat:

secret_agent_man , you re right - the site says 3rd gen Ryzen meaning 5000 series .I was misled .They should have written Zen 3 gen or just post a list of supported processors !

r.linder ,no doublers here

3rd gen is 3000 series... 5000 series is labeled as 5000 series because it makes more sense than saying 4th gen because there's 4000 series APUs and recycled APUs like the 4100 and 4500.
Vermeer is supported with a BIOS update but there hasn't been any memory QVLs since 2nd gen on that board so there's no telling how the memory support actually is at 3200 MHz.

And I can guarantee that it's not a "6 phase" VRM on that board for the CPU, ASUS' B350M-A has 4+2 phase design (vCore+vSOC) and was a much better board than the A320M-K that had no issues running 1st gen 8 core CPUs. The A320M-K has been known to chug on 6 core chips at higher loads because the VRM throttles and didn't have much power to begin with, because it was intended for the APUs like Bristol Ridge. And the B350M-A doesn't have cooling on the VRM either but it handled an 1800X just fine for the most part, because the VRM wasn't garbage that throttled below 100 degrees, but it was still only good enough for 65W CPUs with a downdraft air cooler in full stress loads. A320s were cut down from B350 because of the lack of overclocking support, it wasn't necessary to have good VRMs on them.

[r.linder]

Origineel geplaatst door smallcat:

4 phases are enough for Ryzen 5600 - max 75W

That's not how VRM works, phase count by itself means nothing because phases have different specifications, the 4 vCore phases on the B350M-A only allows up to 50 amps which is only enough to run a 65W CPU at complete stock configuration with a downdraft air cooler blowing down onto the mosfets. The A320M-K allows for less than that because the mosfets are lower in amperage.

And that doesn't even touch upon other potential problems with combining a much newer CPU with the same RAM, problems with stability on the newer BIOS since partners rarely ever update their older motherboards, the high potential for the VRM to overheat without a downdraft cooler like the Wraith designs, etc.

The performance uplift from a 3100 to a 5600 isn't even that large with a low end GPU like the RX 570 or even RX 6600, the 3100 is completely fine and they should be saving their money to upgrade to AM5 because the 7600 is much faster, with single core performance being around 40% higher and the overall gaming performance being comparable to a 5800X3D. But the point of going AM5 is for the upgrade headroom because AM4 is pretty much dead.

[_I_]

4 total, not enough, esp if it does not have any vrm heatsinks

it needs 4 to the cpu cores, +1-2 to the igpu, and +1 to the imc
so 7 total minimum

the board has 4+1+1 no cooling
https://www.asus.com/media/global/gallery/vGyltho0qajsucUl_setting_xxx_0_90_end_800.png
very limited on power to the cpu cores, about 20w ea with no heatsinks
80w max to cpu cores, modern cpus can draw about double their rated wattage at full load til they start throttling

2 mosfets on each to the cores, while the 1+1 to igpu/imc have 4 mosfets on each
very cheap board and design
one reason alone to avoid amd a boards at all costs

since the board has no heatsinks for its vrm, keep the stock cooler on it, and fan speed on mid+ to help cool them and maybe prevent the board from throttling the cpu before the cpu can get hot

[Illusion of Progress]

Origineel geplaatst door r.linder:

it's better to do that because of the upgrade headroom of AM5 is going to be rather vast whereas AM4 is pretty much finished, and doomed to lag behind by a lot once Zen5 is out.

I'm not sure if I'm convinced AM5 is going to have this vast headroom some seem to think. It's easy to presume AM5 might repeat what AM4 did but I find that extremely doubtful. AM4 started with AMD still well behind Intel, and then by the end it had them not only surpassing Intel, but then had the first X3D CPUs as the capstone. From starting offerings to end offerings, you could easily double or more than double your computing performance (ignoring core count increases entirely) on the same platform and that's entirely unheard of on a single socket, especially in modern times.

I think there's a good chance, by contrast, that AM5 sees Zen 5 and then that's it. AMD promised support "through 2025" (although I think they may have later appended this with "and beyond"?) and timeline-wise, Zen 5 should be the latter half of this year (mid to mid-end) and then the X3D could sneak in late this year at the earliest but is perhaps more likely early next year, and "mid way refreshes" and filling out the rest of the lineup would then be expected sometime next year either way. So I think expecting Zen 6 next year, a year after Zen 5, is ambitious, but it depends on if AMD is committed to AM5 beyond 2025 and what that commitment means. If it means what it did for AM4, then I can see it getting further releases beyond 2025 but only in the way of existing stuff/refreshes and not new generations or stuff that raises the performance (think of how AM4 just got the 5700X3D; it's new but not "new" or a higher performance cap). AM5 might similarly just assume a budget role after 2025 once the next thing comes, and if that is AMD's plans, it's basically set to see Zen 5 (like the 9800X3D/9950X3D?) as its best thing and that could be it?

Intel's already expected to do this too[www.extremetech.com]; once Meteor Lake comes on a new socket, LGA 1700 is rumored to see even more refreshes and releases, but it won't be the new architecture. LGA 1700 will similar be relegated to a budget role, so this might be the thing Intel and AMD both do going forward by sort of maintaining two platforms? It will make it hard to estimate how much to expect out of a new socket.

I'm not making a guarantee on any of this, mind you. It's entirely a guess and I admit that. But I think it's a fair one given the timelines we've been given, so I'm kind of "guessing out loud" a bit because it seems like some are just expecting AM5 to have this super longevity just because AM4 did and I don't want to see them set themselves up for disappointment.

Despite all that I entirely agree with you in this case though, by the way. Since the OP on lower end AM4 stuff, it makes sense to consider a new build, and for that you obviously go AM5 over another AM4 build.

[Bing Chilling]

i had a gtx 1070 ROG strix version and a i 5 8600k at 4.6ghz all core
the 1070 draws way closer to 200w then 150w
and the i5 8600k reaches 80-90w. it was totally fine on a 450w PSU for years.
also had 4 SSD's and RGB lighting on the mobo and gpu, aswel as having 3 USB
Neon lights that draw 10w each

this was the PSU : https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0838YLZ1H
CORSAIR CV Series™ CV450 (so it wasn't even premium)

you'll be fine on a 500w.

i suppose that said, if budget allows, it wouldn't hurt getting a new PSU but it's not needed

[_I_]

amd extending their socket has always been a bad roadmap
allowing newer higher end cpus to be choked and throttled by older boards that cant deliver the cpus base rated performance

atleast intel has been sticking to the tick/tock, odd = new socket, next even = refresh tor that socket
2 gens per socket, with bios update to support newer even gen cpus for the odd gen chipset

[r.linder]

Origineel geplaatst door smallcat:

4 phases x30A at least = 120A x1V = 120W - many many watts

They aren't using 30A phases on A320, just stop.

[r.linder]

Origineel geplaatst door smallcat:

You both stop! It s 99.99% sure it will work perfectly .

No, you're unintentionally misleading people because you have no idea what you're talking about. Most B350 motherboards can only provide between 50~75 amps under heavy load which is only good enough for 65W TDP, A320 is a tier below it because it's designed for lower power processors, intentionally cut down and with OC features disabled.

No reason to upgrade to another AM4 build when AM5 is going to get considerably better before it's dropped for AM6 which may not even be until 2028~2030 if AMD follows the same structure as they did with AM4 and a 3100 will handle the 6600 completely fine.

[Bing Chilling]

Origineel geplaatst door smallcat:

as for gtx 1070 power draw- refer design reallydraws150W

in real world games, it's like 192w power draw, i had one up until like 2 weeks ago.
granted it's the ROG strix version with a 300+ core and 400+ memory with power limit at 110%

[r.linder]

Origineel geplaatst door Bing Chilling:

Origineel geplaatst door smallcat:

as for gtx 1070 power draw- refer design reallydraws150W

in real world games, it's like 192w power draw, i had one up until like 2 weeks ago.
granted it's the ROG strix version with a 300+ core and 400+ memory with power limit at 110%

Custom partner models like the ROG STRIX will always use more power than the FE/reference designs, people don't account for that normally and most people get the cheaper models which use closer to the reference but they should still take the full potential of a GPU into consideration

[Bing Chilling]

Origineel geplaatst door r.linder:

Origineel geplaatst door Bing Chilling:

in real world games, it's like 192w power draw, i had one up until like 2 weeks ago.
granted it's the ROG strix version with a 300+ core and 400+ memory with power limit at 110%

Custom partner models like the ROG STRIX will always use more power than the FE/reference designs, people don't account for that normally and most people get the cheaper models which use closer to the reference but they should still take the full potential of a GPU into consideration

this is true

[r.linder]

Origineel geplaatst door smallcat:

This is the last thing from me, 75W of Ryzen 5600 is the max draw that you ll hardly see

Amps and watts are completely different. 65W Ryzen can pull up to 90 amps at stock and these low end boards are rated for ~50.

[_I_]

Origineel geplaatst door smallcat:

4 phases x30A at least = 120A x1V = 120W - many many watts

no
15-20w each phase with no cooling, 25w with cooling
2 mosfets per would be on the lower side
15w x 4 phases to cpu cores = 60w max

[Bad 💀 Motha]

Good quality, well rated model from reputable brand, 650W would be the absolute bare minimum PSU to go with.

I would keep the Ryzen 3100 the way it is, nothing in there is worth keeping on a new build. Save up your money and do a completely newer, modern build. Such as AM5 Motherboard, DDR5 RAM, Ryzen 7500 or better w/ AMD Radeon 6600 or better GPU.