Are USB-ethernet adapters worth the expense?

[Marco]

Hello,

I used to play old-school shooters online a long ago and this month I came back to them as I changed internet connection: I just switched from ADSL to wireless fibre with PoE dish on the roof or whatever it's called.

My PC has an integrated ethernet adapter on the mobo, it's a common Realtek PCIe GBE Family Controller you can find in almost every desktop/notebook mobo.

Now the point is, I think this adapter is mediocre and utter trash. I used different CAT5E cables, but none seems to solve my issue: basically I get huge delays, despite low ping, when playing with certain players who have 55 ms or even russians with 100+. It's just a delayed actions problem, otherwise Hit-Reg works fine.

It's like I see my opponent, I switch from knife to minigun and it takes a whole second to change weapon. In the meantime I'm already dead. Sometimes, I see my opponent's projectiles and try to dodge them but I get hit anyway. Sometimes I notice a rocket in my face when it's too late. Or I see my opponent's movements are quite predictable but they were clearly previous actions and I die anyway and so on.

I've read on the internet that looks like low buffers, a strict NAT or unopened TCP/UDOP ports (your traffic goes to Steam servers, which will add delay) can cause that.

But I'm unlucky with the router the technician installed at home: it's a MikroTik with that horrible bug that refuses access requests despite having no password at all; I should reset it, but I'm afraid to loose password and connection name (it's not for me, but for my relatives who use Wi-Fi) and my technician has that data so I'm waiting for him in the next days.

Regarding buffers, let's come back to the point: my integrated Realtek adapter is capped at 128 for transmit and 512 for receive as their highest values, while there are other adapters that are capable of 2048 or even 4096 symmetrical. Some say they replaced their integrated adapter with an USB 3.0 one and they got better gaming performance.

So here is my question: are USB-ethernet drives better than an old card from 2006? Which ones are capable of higher buffer size?

I've found some on Amazon, but this crucial information isn't specified. On Amazon answers I've got no replies at all.

Extras:

My old ADSL connection had speeds of 4.61 Mbps (download, but with bad weather it eventually dropped to 2 or even 1.14) with download latency of 161 and 0.86 (upload) with upload latency from 789 to 953 or even above 1000 ms. Ping 72-78 ms.

My new connection gives me all the speed I pay for, instead. It's 30.42 Mbps (download, regardless of the weather) with a download latency of 88 (but fell to 68 once I turned RSS OFF) and 5.49 (upload) with an upload latency of 133. Ping 50-62 ms.


Since on Quake Live/Serious Sam series there are no servers in Italy, I have to choose german servers. So my speedtests have always been ran in Germany.

Thank you.

[Pepe]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Marco - cav+xbows is METAH!!11!!:

Hello,

I used to play old-school shooters online a long ago and this month I came back to them as I changed internet connection: I just switched from ADSL to wireless fibre with PoE dish on the roof or whatever it's called.

Wireless fiber... I've heard of that marketing BS in Italy. I've told someone I know there to stay on VDSL or whatever they had (something better than standard ADSL - they're not gamers or huge Internet content consumers to really need fiber, not that kind of "Wireless fiber" anyway).

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Marco - cav+xbows is METAH!!11!!:

it's a dish pointed to my ISP's tower which is built on a mountain 10-15 km away from home, but there are no obstacles in the path.

That right there will create a big latency in itself. It's physics. If your local home devices create higher latency between them on 5Ghz wireless vs two devices linked through your home Ethernet connection, and that's just a few meters of wireless communication, imagine what happens in 10 km. Other wireless devices interference, the weather, they all play a role in the latency over wireless, physical obstacles or not. It's not wireless in the void of space.

As you can see from your own tests, you have a huge ping to your first hop. I'm on Gigabit fiber Internet + Gigabit local network (Router's PPPoE WAN to LAN speed of ~950Mbps tested before my ISP capped the upload speed lower than 1Gbps). To my local ISP server listed on speedtest.net I have 0ms Idle Latency, 1ms Download Latency and 4ms Upload Latency. Using the ping command, I have a constant 37ms ping latency to the same Google server IP address you pinged (216.58.209.46), and I'm ~1500km away from Milan (where that server seems to be). As someone mentioned, consistency is also important. Just a spike every 10 seconds can ruin your gaming experience. I could play a game with that Google server at 37ms and I'd be just fine.

You don't have to change anything on your PC. You have 1 ms ping to your own router. The problem doesn't seem to be your network, but the ISP infrastructure. Some routers tend to have lower WAN-to-LAN speed than advertised (especially on PPPoE where there's some extra work to be done), but the latency shouldn't be an issue even on those. Microtik is a well known brand, I really don't think that the router could fix the phisical limitation of the antenna transmission. One thing that comes to mind you could ask the ISP technical engineer is to increase the power of the dish, if that's possible. I think there are some regulations regarding wireless, you can't just have "Unlimited Power" Darth Sidious style.

Your old ADSL numbers were jawdropping high, I guess the ISP offering that service had the same infrastructure since 2000. The "Wireless fiber" does look like an improvement, but the latency is still high and clearly not consistent.

Try testing VDSL, find someone who has VDSL and ask them to do some gaming tests for you. Consistent low latency, that's what you are after. If you can get VDSL from an ISP in your area, I think you will have a better gaming experience than this "Wireless fiber" nonsense.

This wikipedia page seems to have a list of ISP providers offering VDSL:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_VDSL_and_VDSL2_deployments
Scroll down to Italy and contact those providers (it looks like they offer VDSL2 which is more than enough and better than your "Wireless fiber" numbers).

"Wireless fiber"... marketing at its finest.

[Bad 💀 Motha]

Yes always try and avoid an ISP that is going to be used for Gaming or Live-Streaming that is Wireless. Even 5G services because you won't be able to avoid having Pings of around 90-200ms and that's just completely a NO-GO when it comes to Online Gaming or Live Streaming.

[[☥] - CJ -]

In Short
You are likely getting whats to be expected due to using Wireless

Modern Intel/Realtek Gigabit NICs are actually pretty good, so unless you have a config issue somewhere its likely being on wireless is the issue and not your NIC.

[Marco]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Pepe:

Wireless fiber... I've heard of that marketing BS in Italy. I've told someone I know there to stay on VDSL or whatever they had (something better than standard ADSL - they're not gamers or huge Internet content consumers to really need fiber, not that kind of "Wireless fiber" anyway).

That right there will create a big latency in itself. It's physics. If your local home devices create higher latency between them on 5Ghz wireless vs two devices linked through your home Ethernet connection, and that's just a few meters of wireless communication, imagine what happens in 10 km. Other wireless devices interference, the weather, they all play a role in the latency over wireless, physical obstacles or not. It's not wireless in the void of space.

As you can see from your own tests, you have a huge ping to your first hop. I'm on Gigabit fiber Internet + Gigabit local network (Router's PPPoE WAN to LAN speed of ~950Mbps tested before my ISP capped the upload speed lower than 1Gbps). To my local ISP server listed on speedtest.net I have 0ms Idle Latency, 1ms Download Latency and 4ms Upload Latency. Using the ping command, I have a constant 37ms ping latency to the same Google server IP address you pinged (216.58.209.46), and I'm ~1500km away from Milan (where that server seems to be). As someone mentioned, consistency is also important. Just a spike every 10 seconds can ruin your gaming experience. I could play a game with that Google server at 37ms and I'd be just fine.

You don't have to change anything on your PC. You have 1 ms ping to your own router. The problem doesn't seem to be your network, but the ISP infrastructure. Some routers tend to have lower WAN-to-LAN speed than advertised (especially on PPPoE where there's some extra work to be done), but the latency shouldn't be an issue even on those. Microtik is a well known brand, I really don't think that the router could fix the phisical limitation of the antenna transmission. One thing that comes to mind you could ask the ISP technical engineer is to increase the power of the dish, if that's possible. I think there are some regulations regarding wireless, you can't just have "Unlimited Power" Darth Sidious style.

Your old ADSL numbers were jawdropping high, I guess the ISP offering that service had the same infrastructure since 2000. The "Wireless fiber" does look like an improvement, but the latency is still high and clearly not consistent.

Try testing VDSL, find someone who has VDSL and ask them to do some gaming tests for you. Consistent low latency, that's what you are after. If you can get VDSL from an ISP in your area, I think you will have a better gaming experience than this "Wireless fiber" nonsense.

This wikipedia page seems to have a list of ISP providers offering VDSL:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_VDSL_and_VDSL2_deployments
Scroll down to Italy and contact those providers (it looks like they offer VDSL2 which is more than enough and better than your "Wireless fiber" numbers).

"Wireless fiber"... marketing at its finest.

Yes, as you say, infrastructure is very old in my area. Plus, I live in countryside and my house is the building where the old ADSL/phone line ended, a line that starts in a cabinet 3 km away. I think it's unlikely I can get VDSL at those speeds as advertised on Wikipedia.

I think I will play with lower level players then, since my connection doesn't 'suffer' certain players (maybe higher level ones because they move faster and too much?) when it comes to gaming. Or I can still play RTS or online board games, which have different netcode, so it doesn't really matter if your connection is wireless.

Now I don't mean to contraddict you, I want to point out two cases of improvements compared to what I had in the past. I saw improvements in bad weather conditions or in internet usage.
For example, during the last few months, my ADSL connection dropped for 5 mins as soon as some rain started falling or in case of very strong wind. This dish at least keeps internet connection going and still gives me ~29 Mbps in download at the very least, I've ran tests during windy and rainy nights a few days ago, with the mountain in front of my house covered by clouds. As per internet browsing, I can upload videos on YouTube (2GB-sized videos are uploaded in less than 2 hours; with my old ADSL not only they took forever to upload, but the upload itself often failed) now and I won't congest line usage for other devices connected. Huge Steam games and updates also download at reasonable times compared to before, when I had to keep my PC running for entire nights to download games such as DOOM 2016/Eternal.

This could have led me to get wrong the purpose of the new connection I have.

I must specify however, that the dish is mounted on the same pole as TV antenna, but below it. This can cause other interference I guess.

And I want to ask you: does the sea matter? I live on an island, so my signal must go across Tyrrenian sea to reach the northern Italy IP of my first hop. That also could add delay, but what bugs me is that on the game I play, some years ago, one dude from South America always won on italian servers despite pinging 212 ms with his inputs that had to travel from his continent to Europe, and there's Atlantic ocean in between. Yet, I always saw his previous actions when I reacted to his attacks (but I had still ADSL at the time). I understand if a russian from Siberia gets stability on german servers because of FTTH and no sea. But signal across the sea should travel on radio inputs or satellite, aka wireless. Pretending he had FTTH, does fiber work regardless of the sea?

On a last note, my ISP can offer 100/20 speed for additional € 8 per month (about € 96-100 more yearly). But if wireless is inconsistent, I think I won't upgrade my plan, as it wouldn't solve gaming problems at this point.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Bad 💀 Motha:

Yes always try and avoid an ISP that is going to be used for Gaming or Live-Streaming that is Wireless. Even 5G services because you won't be able to avoid having Pings of around 90-200ms and that's just completely a NO-GO when it comes to Online Gaming or Live Streaming.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von ☥ - CJ -:

In Short
You are likely getting whats to be expected due to using Wireless

Modern Intel/Realtek Gigabit NICs are actually pretty good, so unless you have a config issue somewhere its likely being on wireless is the issue and not your NIC.

Yep, I think I'll mark this thread as solved. Thanks everybody for the feedback, much appreciated.

[Crashed]

Both USB and PCIe Ethernet should have a ping of less than 1ms to your router.
Outside your router, latency is an ISP issue.
Note built-in is almost always PCIe connected via your chipset.

[_I_]

no, usb is dirt slow, will add a few ms just to talk to the nic through the usb controller

[Crashed]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von _I_:

no, usb is dirt slow, will add a few ms just to talk to the nic through the usb controller

Getting sub-ms on my USB Ethernet dongle.

[Pepe]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Marco - cav+xbows is METAH!!11!!:

And I want to ask you: does the sea matter? I live on an island, so my signal must go across Tyrrenian sea to reach the northern Italy IP of my first hop. That also could add delay, but what bugs me is that on the game I play, some years ago, one dude from South America always won on italian servers despite pinging 212 ms with his inputs that had to travel from his continent to Europe, and there's Atlantic ocean in between. Yet, I always saw his previous actions when I reacted to his attacks (but I had still ADSL at the time). I understand if a russian from Siberia gets stability on german servers because of FTTH and no sea. But signal across the sea should travel on radio inputs or satellite, aka wireless. Pretending he had FTTH, does fiber work regardless of the sea?

If you, initially, talk about wireless, of course it can affect the wireless, but I think in a good way, the sea is flatter than the land full of buildings plus less other vehicles and devices to interfere, if that makes any sense.

As for the fiber, Internet between continents and large islands is usually connected through fiber optics, but it's not like the "normal" terrestrial fiber cables with 10-20 whatever small fibers inside you might have seen hanging in a city, imagine a huge tube full of other cables with fibers inside, looks more like a big pipe. They must resist pressure, corrosion, hooks or animal teeth, they are meant to be way stronger than the normal terrestrial ones, because you can't just go at the bottom of the ocean and fix them. They do some repairs, but just to a certain depth, and even those are more costly than fixing a connection over land.

212ms seems like a high ping for an FPS game, but I don't know. For example, in CS, there are some few optimizations people can do to get better feedback from the server like changing the tickrate, updaterate, I don't remember exactly the name of the settings. If they had 212ms and you had 50ms and they've got their shot registered before yours, it might be all the other settings. With Valve's Source games you can see more regarding your connection using net_graph. You can have a better ping, but 50% packet loss, that's terrible.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Marco - cav+xbows is METAH!!11!!:

I think it's unlikely I can get VDSL at those speeds as advertised on Wikipedia.

You don't need those VDSL speeds, but you need the consistent latency, and I think the VDSL can offer that. I don't think the VDSL goes through the same old infrastructure the ADSL goes through.

[Crashed]

USB Ethernet adapters by the way are not expensive; I've used these to boost older generation Raspberry Pi computers - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00M77HMU0

[humboldt]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von RMJ:

USB = speed limitations - NUFF said

i am sorry. i have to critizise what you have been writing about usb rj45 adapter. technically usb can provide network, that is fast . 1 gigabit is fast and more i dont need. ping and stuff must be no problem. i know that there are 2,5 gigabit internal network adapters, but who needs more than 1 gigabit? i do not. these usb rj45 adapters are cheap and a new mainboard not. this is, what i wanted say.
i dont want to be offensive.
byebye

[Bad 💀 Motha]

If you really needed 2.5 / 5 / 10 Gbps then buy a modern Motherboard that offers that.

Or buy an internal PCIE card with a decent chipset.

1Gbps via USB is plenty.

Most consumers do not have access to an ISP speed plan above 1Gbps anyways.