Windows 12 == Windows 11 "refresh"

[N3tRunn3r]

So, latest news tells.. Windows 11 gets a major refresh this year rather than a Windows 12 release.

Last year there were rumors around, if Windows 12 would be a Windows 11 refresh or a full new release on its own.

Автор сообщения: N3tRunn3r

The Microsoft "CPO" who was respsonsible for Windows 10 and 11 has left Microsoft and just switched over to Amazon this October iirc. The new MS CPO and their CEF (Financial) have other plans with the upcoming Windows 12..

For example latest leaks (a roadmap) have shown in Windows 12 the Taskbar is finally again on top of the screen, as I had used it for 3 decades .. with Windows 11 22H2 this feature was removed.. not even registry hacks could had brought it back ..

So Windows 12 (codename 'Germanium') will either be Windows 11 24H2, or W12. 'Germanium' should be RTM-ready in April 2024.

And codename 'Hudson-Valley' should be an August Update in 2024 which includes more AI-stuff, rather than a new W12 release as rumored before.

So there are still rumors and non-confirmed official stuff around between 'Germanium' and 'Hudson-Valley'.. if these are a major release, and/or a major update, or even a re-branding of Windows..

Some other semi-confirmations comes from Qualcomm btw..

"If" Windows 12 pops up, then more likely in 2025 .. !!

So, Windows 11 gets at least 2 bigger updates this year. In short:

-> The Moment Update 5 which is an important update for EU users and will be rolled out within Q1 2024. Less bloatware included in W11 as well as a fully configureable system. Less clouding, more freedom in configuration, less being controlled by Micrososft's "Gatekeeper"..

-> The 24H2 major update, which possibly is the Windows 11 REFRESH rather than the W12 release.

[Carlsberg]

You can install without TPM support yes but future updates may require it and so users without will not have access to those updates and may have compatibility issues with some future software thats why its not recommended to install without TPM. This could also affect some users that continue to hang onto Win10.

Microsoft is moving forward and looking ahead and we should do the same. When the shift was made to Win95 the decision was made to ditch DOS and its 640k limit, MS basically told us this was the future deal with or do without, the use of TPM may end with a similar response.

[plat]

Well, the concern regarding tpm was along the lines of: if one did install 11 with the tpm bypass, would one get critical updates in the future.

The answer is: for the short term apparently. But this can be revoked by Microsoft at any time. Actually, it's M$'s dilemma as so many have already done this; to just yank it away could result in a lot of backlash. I mean: OEMs now are making Windows 11 machines. It's a matter of time before almost everyone else migrates to new hardware, never mind an operating system.

By the way, in the early days of Windows 11,I removed my Infineon chip for the heck of it and got some errors in Event Viewer. But everything kept running.

[r.linder]

If Microsoft decides to release a major update which adds routine hardware checks at boot, then they could use it to enforce their requirements and lock out systems that don't meet the listed requirements. TPM 2.0 is required merely because of Windows Hello and BitLocker features in Windows 11 but that could change with future updates or versions of Windows.

Back when I still used Windows 10, I tested my system with Intel PTT (aka fTPM; firmware-based TPM) enabled and disabled, and whenever it was disabled, Windows 11 would refuse to install, so I left it disabled so the update would ♥♥♥♥ off.

[plat]

Well, what would people prefer? A brand new label on an operating system that just segues from an already-familiar one? Or just sticking with what we know now?

Personally, I think it gets a little silly. Whether it's Windows 12 or Windows 11 "refresh," it doesn't seem to be making this huge and innovative leap. It just seems to be a continuum.

Can anyone think of any advantages to naming it Windows 12 vs. staying at Windows 11?

[Illusion of Progress]

Автор сообщения: plat

Personally, I think it gets a little silly. Whether it's Windows 12 or Windows 11 "refresh," it doesn't seem to be making this huge and innovative leap. It just seems to be a continuum.

That depends on how much you think AI is a big thing or not. The industry and a whole is chasing that trend right now, and that seems like it might be getting more of a focus for future Windows versions.

You're comment is interesting because its a thought provoking question to ask, but historically, many Windows versions were "just iterations that didn't make huge and innovative leaps". For the most part, Windows has been a continuum.

Windows 95 was a brand new departure (it was sort of a big deal). It was iterated on with Windows 98, which was again iterated on with Windows ME. Each "different enough", but also "same enough". Evolutions, but not revolutions.

Windows XP was the first major change (since Windows 95 itself) for the consumer versions, but even that was built atop the existing Windows 2000 (NT).

Windows Vista was somewhere between an iteration and a major change. On the surface it was a big change but underneath it was rather similar. Windows 7 mostly iterated on Windows Vista, similar to how Windows 98 and ME were to Windows 95.

Windows 8 was again somewhere between an iteration and a major change, being closer to the latter (and in a very bad way in my opinion). Windows 8.1 iterated on Windows 8, mostly by walking back on it and resulting in a strange Windows 7 and 8 mix.

Windows 10 iterated on Windows 8.1 as it started as something you could call Windows 8.2 and changed into its own thing by now.

So historically, yes, Windows 11 deserves its distinction. Windows 10 just made people forget (or they are too young/new) but Windows 10 itself was the outlier, not the other way around. Windows 10 was something different enough from its start and end that it would have been called something new going by past examples, but Microsoft gave it 6 years instead of the usual 3 without being replaced.

[Carlsberg]

Автор сообщения: kitty

You may be surprised to know that Windows 95, 98, and ME all ran on top of MS-DOS. They couldn't function without it.

And no TPM (as of today) is not a requirement and will not be a requirement for Windows 11. I can't speak for future operating systems though as Windows 12 may require it (if it ever releases).

Until windows XP versions of windows used MS-Dos to bootstrap the OS but it was an independant OS with a 16 bit kernal interface.

And yes TPM is not a requirement CURRENTLY, but as stated that can change pretty much anytime as things move forward.

[lsdninja]

Автор сообщения: Carlsberg

Until windows XP versions of windows used MS-Dos to bootstrap the OS but it was an independant OS with a 16 bit kernal interface.

It was still there though and a single line change in msdos.sys would have you booting into a command prompt like it was 1982.

And yes TPM is not a requirement CURRENTLY, but as stated that can change pretty much anytime as things move forward.

I swear MS just threw the TPM requirement in to stop people looking too closely at just how arbitrary and stupid the CPU requirements are...

[plat]

@Illusion of Progress: thanks for the detailed answer, I wasn't expecting such a well-thought out response. I kind of recall the main thing that changed from Windows 8.1 to 10 was the kernel version which is carried thru to Windows 11 for the most part. That of itself would justify a new name, wouldn't it?

The artificial intelligence thing aka Copilot, is inevitable, right? I just REALLY hope that once it hits the mainstream, it's opt-IN. Not opt-out. Very sneaky to do the opt-out, in general. But I'm certainly going to demo it in the Insiders ring.

[N3tRunn3r]

Copilot is replacing Cortana.
If you havent known, since a few weeks it has been possible to remove/uninstall Cortana from Windows. It wasnt possible before as a "system-integrated" software.

So Copilot is going to be heavily implemented in W11 24H2 and/or W12. Just like Edge is. Edge is also going to get a "rebrand" with a different name with more AI functions and enhanced features just as predicted. Cortana will not be vanished though and be applied for 2~3 different/other useages.

W11 24H2 and/or W12 with its next new kernel version (Germanium-platform) is open to be configured. No more bloatware, no more forced Edge, no more forced Bing, etc ... freely customizable, especially for EU customers due to EU and German Laws. Maybe that's why Windows' next generation codename is "Germanium".

Copilot is that hot (future) stuff, future keyboards will going to own a Copilot key included which sits next to the right-hand alt key on Windows keyboards. It will replace the menu key (application key) that was introduced alongside the Windows key decades ago.

[Kitai]

and windows 11 is just windows 10,
and windows 10 is just windows 8 refresh
windows 7 is just the final version of windows vista
xp is just an updated windows 2000
windows 2000 is just windows 98

windows hasnt changed what it is.
it will always be a refresh.

[Pom Pom]

What do you mean? if EU rules only apply to EU user? I am so afraid if it was true.

[N3tRunn3r]

Автор сообщения: nineret

What do you mean? if EU rules only apply to EU user? I am so afraid if it was true.

that's what i dont know yet, sorry

there is also still an investigation by the EU-Commission ongoing about Microsoft, Bing and Edge.. which should be applied in March 2024, or if Microsoft gonna circumvent EU laws ..

[Zef]

Автор сообщения: Bad 💀 Motha

Stay on Win10 if you actually want a stable PC.

Win11 is a on-going beta test to which I won't be a part of. Every update it's breaking stuff. If you do any real work on your PC, live stream, play games; then say no to Win11. You don't need the headaches, loss of time and money.

Boomer Motha again with the overblown and faulty advice.

Win 11 is stable, running it for over a year without any crashes, driver issues, BSOD's etc.

[Illusion of Progress]

Автор сообщения: plat

The artificial intelligence thing aka Copilot, is inevitable, right? I just REALLY hope that once it hits the mainstream, it's opt-IN. Not opt-out. Very sneaky to do the opt-out, in general.

A this point, I don't care what the default is as long as there even is a proper opt-out. More and more it seems Microsoft is taking the opt-out away from a lot of things (user account, file type association defaults, etc.), or at least making you have to constantly jump through many different attempts to stop it.

I recently dealt with it updating Adrenalin time and time and time again even though I had it set not to update my devices, and even though I had the registry changes in place. Yet Windows Update kept doing this (it was doing it with my nVidia drivers entirely a few months back too; this time it's updating Adrenalin but not the underlying driver version). Want to know what stopped it? I had to use device manager (so much for this being deprecated?) and use the roll back driver option, something I never would have thought of since I just uninstall/DDU and reinstalled it every time, and it gets more insane. I had to tell nanny Microsoft why I was rolling something back on my own PC before it let me proceed with it. We don't even have control of our PC with Windows anymore.

Автор сообщения: Kitai

and windows 11 is just windows 10,
and windows 10 is just windows 8 refresh
windows 7 is just the final version of windows vista
xp is just an updated windows 2000
windows 2000 is just windows 98

That's true on all but the last one.

Windows 2000 and Windows 98 were very different underneath the surface. They merely looked similar. Windows 98 was Windows 9x, whereas Windows 2000 (and everything since) was Windows NT based.

In a way, Windows 11 could be said to be closer to Windows 2000 than Windows 98 is. Windows ME would probably be the one you're thinking of comparing to Windows 98.

[plat]

Автор сообщения: Illusion of Progress

A this point, I don't care what the default is as long as there even is a proper opt-out. More and more it seems Microsoft is taking the opt-out away from a lot of things (user account, file type association defaults, etc.), or at least making you have to constantly jump through many different attempts to stop it.

Well this is just another disturbing thing. And I stand corrected: we hardly ever "opt-in" when it comes to Microsoft, always cramming unwanted crap down our collective throat and then making it obscure to opt OUT.

Like the hardware requirements for 11, hopefully this stuff can be bypassed with a friendly script or two eventually.

Also, I don't know what a "Cortana" is and I'm actually good without knowing for sure.