Would DDR4 ram limit a Intel 13th generation to 14 th generation processor ?

Dutchgamer1982 2023년 12월 8일 오후 4시 33분

looked at a few tests for you
a system with a 4090 in it and a 14700k
and similair motherboards..

just one with ddr4 4000mhz
one with ddr5 6000mhz
one with ddr5 8000mhz

there was a difference but very marginal.
1 or 2 fps at best
the 1% low

a 14700k with ddr4 4000mhz would perform only 1 or 2 fps (or about 1% less) than ddr5 8000mhz in average fps

the 1% lowest fps does differ more
we can see upto 8 fps difference (or about 5%) betweenn ddr4 4000 and ddr5 8000

ddr5 6000 only drops 2 or 3 frames (or abour 2% in that 1% margin.

so overall it matters hardly..

actual memory speed matters more (mhz / cas)

and what do you know from the first ddr4 days.. the ratio has stayed about the same.

I have old ddr4 2800mhz cas 14..
while modern ddr5 6000 mhz has cas 30...

effective the speed is EXACTLY the same.
explaining why ramspeed does not matter that much.

but bying ram with a better cas to mhz ratio.. can give benefits.

#31

Dutchgamer1982 2023년 12월 8일 오후 4시 37분

G.Skill Ripjaws V F4-4000C14D-16GVK

the only chips with a true latency rating of 7

4000mhz but only a CL of 14

much faster than any ddr 5 currently on the market.

I bet if you test those against those 8000mhz chips with cas 40.. they outperform them.

#32

Revelene 2023년 12월 8일 오후 4시 41분

M3GAHURTZ님이 먼저 게시:
Revelene님이 먼저 게시:
Don't use hardware forums for hardware discussions. -M3GAHURTZ 2023
Actually, hardware forums are great. Unfortunately we are not on a hardware forum. This is the steam forums where multiple people openly throw around random made up "facts" (that they know aren't true) just to try and intentionally mislead people because they think it's entertaining to do. This is not an actual hardware / technology forum.

If the OP would actually like a serious answer from actual hardware experts I would suggest they re-post this question in a proper tech forum. Like these:

https://forum.level1techs.com/
https://linustechtips.com/
https://www.overclock.net/forums/

Anyone can access any of these forums, just like Steam Forums. Forums are not a place to get absolute information, but rather to discuss. Sure, there are people that will come in and say off base things, but that is just how the internet rolls. If anyone goes to a forum and takes a comment as absolute fact, then that is on them.

I guess I understand your reasoning. You just want people to not fall for someone talking out their rear, which I can commend.

I only have one issue, which is that anything LTT should not be listed as "expert". The reason for this will be explained... after this segue to our sponsor!

Revelene 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2023년 12월 8일 오후 4시 42분

#33

River 2023년 12월 11일 오후 1시 24분

Thanks everyone. For your input and opinions!

#34

De Hollandse Ezel 2023년 12월 11일 오후 1시 27분

gamer님이 먼저 게시:
Thanks everyone. For your input and opinions!

yw the short answer is :
at the moment ddr4 is still faster..
due it having a lower true latency.

but the gap in fps is small, and having a ddr5 motherboard you can always buy low true latency chips once they start to apear for ddr5.

De Hollandse Ezel 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2023년 12월 11일 오후 1시 28분

#35

Monk 2023년 12월 13일 오후 12시 02분

De Hollandse Ezel님이 먼저 게시:
gamer님이 먼저 게시:
Thanks everyone. For your input and opinions!

yw the short answer is :
at the moment ddr4 is still faster..
due it having a lower true latency.

but the gap in fps is small, and having a ddr5 motherboard you can always buy low true latency chips once they start to apear for ddr5.

No, ddr5 is faster, notably, if you pay for it, the bandwidth is just better.
If you buy cheap memory on both sides it will be slow and both options require a good cpu and mobo to get the best out if it.

If you are on a budget, the speed of your ram is the least important part, really, your needs and budget should be the deciding factor between ddr4 and 5.

#36

De Hollandse Ezel 2023년 12월 13일 오후 12시 32분

Monk님이 먼저 게시:
De Hollandse Ezel님이 먼저 게시:

yw the short answer is :
at the moment ddr4 is still faster..
due it having a lower true latency.

but the gap in fps is small, and having a ddr5 motherboard you can always buy low true latency chips once they start to apear for ddr5.

No, ddr5 is faster, notably, if you pay for it, the bandwidth is just better.
If you buy cheap memory on both sides it will be slow and both options require a good cpu and mobo to get the best out if it.

If you are on a budget, the speed of your ram is the least important part, really, your needs and budget should be the deciding factor between ddr4 and 5.

there does not currently excist ddr5 with a true latency below 10.
there does ddr4 excist with a true latancy of 7

hence ddr4 is faster

4000mhz with cas 18 is faster than 6000 mhz with cas 30

#37

xSOSxHawkens 2023년 12월 13일 오후 1시 00분

De Hollandse Ezel님이 먼저 게시:
Monk님이 먼저 게시:

No, ddr5 is faster, notably, if you pay for it, the bandwidth is just better.
If you buy cheap memory on both sides it will be slow and both options require a good cpu and mobo to get the best out if it.

If you are on a budget, the speed of your ram is the least important part, really, your needs and budget should be the deciding factor between ddr4 and 5.

there does not currently excist ddr5 with a true latency below 10.
there does ddr4 excist with a true latancy of 7

hence ddr4 is faster

4000mhz with cas 18 is faster than 6000 mhz with cas 30

Pretty much.

The only use case where DDR5 is going to be definitively faster will be in the single use case of large scale sequential data transfer.

People dot realize it, but there is still latency going from file-to-file, be it on sector to sector in a disk, nand to nand on an SSD, or register to register on RAM.

HDD you feel it. SSD not much outside of benchmarks or low end drives. But RAM you often deal with it without knowing its impact. Thats the timing part.

Just because the measurement is in ns doesnt make it any less important in overall response. You can have huge bandwidth, but unless all you do is saturate that fully, the poor timings will result is worse performance with a real world mixed load vs slower but tighter timed ram.

#38

De Hollandse Ezel 2023년 12월 13일 오후 2시 59분

M3GAHURTZ님이 먼저 게시:
De Hollandse Ezel님이 먼저 게시:
4000mhz with cas 18 is faster than 6000 mhz with cas 30
If you go by the raw bandwidth numbers produced by synthetic tests then DDR5 (all speeds and latencies) are actually "faster" than any DDR4 at any speed or latency. HOWEVER.. that doesn't hold over to actual performance in programs (games or actual programs). In actual gaming or actual programs it seems fast DDR4 @ 3600 and above isn't significantly faster than DDR5 and they appear to be about the same performance.

This is kind of how it happens with computer ram: The first few bins of DDR4 when it first came out (that ran at between 2400 Mhz and 2666 Mhz or 2800 Mhz) wasn't significantly faster than the fastest DDR3 kits in the early computers. But if you compare today's DDR4 that we have, like say for example a DDR4 kit that runs at 3600 Mhz at timings of 14-14-14 (they exist) and compare that to the fastest DDR3 we had then we can see a very significant difference in performance in favor of the DDR4 systems.

Micron has already released announcements that they have 12,800 Mhz DDR5 in their lab that they are performing tests on and some people theorize that DDR5 may be able to scale up to 24,000 Mhz and 27,000 Mhz, much, much later. It's those later kits of DDR5 that we get in the next 3-4 years that will be significantly faster than DDR4. But we're just not there yet today.

when I bought ddr4 as early adoptop.. it was 2800mhz cl 14.. (tl 9.73) which certaoinly for an 128GB (8x16gb) kit was the fastest around.

at the time there was ddr3 that had tl of 9.. so the best of ddr3 at it's end was better than ddr4 when it just arived.

today yes you have ddr 4 4000mhz with cl 14 indeed.. (tl 7) which is much faster.

...
I expect something similair to happen with ddr5.. long term..

but at THIS moment.. the best of ddr4 still is considerably faster than ddr5..
2 years from now.. that indeed likely will have changed.

#39

_I_ 2023년 12월 13일 오후 2시 59분

clock isnt speed
cl is how many clock ticks between read/write cycles

thats where its performance really lays

ddr3 2400 cl9 would be miles faster than ddr5 6000 cl60
even with the much slower clock, its waiting far fewer ticks between read/writes

#40

_I_ 2023년 12월 13일 오후 3시 06분

as time goes on, ram chips are getting faster
currently they are using similar chips for ddr4 and ddr5 which is why the ddr5 has higher timings for now
in the future there will be ram chips that can run at lower cl with the higher speed

#41

(415!)Fle@B@gL@ne 2023년 12월 14일 오전 12시 21분

Frey님이 먼저 게시:
I had 3600mhz ddr4 cl 16 switch to DDR5 6800mhz cl34, the price for new motherboard new ram was 1200€, I have gained 2fps, I have refund and I have bought a new monitor instead

Thats why I am still DDR4 and setup up holds well at max 1440P

i9 10900k 10@5.0+ 360 rad
32GB DDR4 PC 3000
3090RTX Gaming OC 2125/9900
2 1TB 970 evo plus m.2
1000 watt

#42

Pocahawtness 2023년 12월 14일 오전 6시 38분

Monk님이 먼저 게시:
No, ddr5 is faster, notably, if you pay for it, the bandwidth is just better.
If you buy cheap memory on both sides it will be slow and both options require a good cpu and mobo to get the best out if it.

If you are on a budget, the speed of your ram is the least important part, really, your needs and budget should be the deciding factor between ddr4 and 5.

That isn't what I heard. Where are the tests for this? (genuinely interested). Everything i have seen has indicated that there isn't much difference.

#43

Supafly 2023년 12월 14일 오전 6시 53분

Pirate☠️Pocah님이 먼저 게시:
Monk님이 먼저 게시:
No, ddr5 is faster, notably, if you pay for it, the bandwidth is just better.
If you buy cheap memory on both sides it will be slow and both options require a good cpu and mobo to get the best out if it.

If you are on a budget, the speed of your ram is the least important part, really, your needs and budget should be the deciding factor between ddr4 and 5.

That isn't what I heard. Where are the tests for this? (genuinely interested). Everything i have seen has indicated that there isn't much difference.

Ram Latency checker link below

DDR5 - DDR4 - DDR3

DDR4 and DDR3 are speeds I had/have currently. Don't own a DDR 5 board so grabbed DDR 5 speeds from some of the more expensive moddules.

Ok my DDR4 seems best but newer CPUs make better use of Ram Mhz so this isn't the best way to measure things nowadays as it depends on the game + the cpu. improvements can be as little little 1-2 but in other maybe 5/6 or more

EDIT: opps forgot the link
https://notkyon.moe/ram-latency2.htm

Supafly 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2023년 12월 14일 오전 7시 02분

#44

C1REX 2023년 12월 14일 오전 7시 00분

Pirate☠️Pocah님이 먼저 게시:
Where are the tests for this? (genuinely interested)

https://youtu.be/OYqpr4Xpg6I?si=e0dHD0xwHwFc-3ti

#45

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