Should I Wait Until 5000 series to Upgrade?

[DeathMetalJedi]

I currently have a 3060 and was thinking about upgrading for christmas but honestly, for my budget (~500) the only card that makes sense is the 4070 and I don't know if it's ENOUGH of an upgrade. I honestly get by pretty well at 1440p with my 3060 still. I guess I would also have DLSS 3.

[DeathMetalJedi]

Originally posted by Χάρης:

For your budget I would go with AMD. Maybe find an RX 7800XT and forget about RT and DLSS.

DLSS 3 is entirely too enticing for me. That, and I am extremely biased lol. I only ever went red one time and it was the 7970 back in 2012 and it was probably the most regrettable decision I ever made as a gamer. Sure I got more fps per dollar but it ran at a thousand degrees and lacked many features that were hip at the time such as physx. Sound familiar?

[Bad 💀 Motha]

Yes at least the 4070 and 4070 Ti runs very cool temps and doesn't require a ton of power either.

[Pocahawtness]

Originally posted by DeathMetalJedi:

I currently have a 3060 and was thinking about upgrading for christmas but honestly, for my budget (~500) the only card that makes sense is the 4070 and I don't know if it's ENOUGH of an upgrade. I honestly get by pretty well at 1440p with my 3060 still. I guess I would also have DLSS 3.

I think this is what people should do now. Instead of upgrading every two years, perhaps now upgrade every four.

[De Hollandse Ezel]

new parts will always coming if you wait for them you never buy anythimg.
so you should just buy when yo want to buy.

unless a release is very close a few weeks away.. like months tops.

..

the nvidea 5xxx launch is said to come in fall 2024.
fall starts 21 september and it can be as late as 20 decembner

4xxxx series was laumched in september 2022 so we are barely halfwsy past its lifecycle.

id say dont wait.. just buy now.

[De Hollandse Ezel]

Originally posted by Xmas🎅Pocah:

Originally posted by DeathMetalJedi:

I currently have a 3060 and was thinking about upgrading for christmas but honestly, for my budget (~500) the only card that makes sense is the 4070 and I don't know if it's ENOUGH of an upgrade. I honestly get by pretty well at 1440p with my 3060 still. I guess I would also have DLSS 3.

I think this is what people should do now. Instead of upgrading every two years, perhaps now upgrade every four.

you always upgraded every 3 years (every 2d gpu generation)
but as geberations have started to take 2 years instead of 1.5 like they used ro.. yes?replacing your oc once every 4 years makes sense.

[PopinFRESH]

Originally posted by Illusion of Progress:

...But if OP wants more performance "now-ish", waiting for the RTX 50 series is silly because that's too far off. That would mean they have to wait a year or likely more. As it is, the RTX 50 series might not release until 2025 (which was nVidia's last formal date for it, but the latest rumored unofficial stance is it may come earlier and be late 2024 if RDNA4 comes out and is price or performance competitive and forces them to release it earlier). Regardless of whether it's very late 2024 or early 2025, same thing because those certainly aren't going to be the ~$500 offerings but the flagships. The cheaper stuff close to OP's stated budget comes quite a bit later and would have them waiting way too long.

If OP was okay on their current performance and was looking to replace it with a similar x60 tier, sure, wait because a gen to gen uplift at the same tier is almost never worth it. But otherwise, the RTX 50 series is too long and substantial uplifts from an RTX 3060 can be had right now just beyond the stated budget.

There hasn't been a "formal" date for the 50 series afaik. There have been leaked targets, but mostly those dates are based on that stupid "graph" that has some "Ada Next" that would appear to be above and slightly to the right of the tick mark on the bottom axis for "2025".

Regardless, my rational for saying "yes" on waiting was specifically because the OP said "I honestly get by pretty well at 1440p with my 3060 still" which to me sounds like they are not really convinced themselves that they should be spending the $$ on an upgrade. If they hadn't said that I'd concur with the majority of what you've noted. But given the OP, I don't they waiting another year-ish is going to put them out or make them not enjoy their current system.

IMO, I'd personally recommend to the OP rather than spending $500 now on something like a 4070; keeping that $500 and stuffing away some more each month over the next year so you'd have closer to the $800 budget range when the 50 series launches and look at whatever 50-series is near that price point 5070/5070Ti or whatever.

I'd also strongly recommend waiting for some decent reviews/testing depending on what is announced when they launch as it is still unclear if "Blackwell" will be their first MCM architecture like was initially rumored or if it will still be a large monolithic die. The last rumors I saw seemed to indicated they wouldn't be moving to an MCM design with the GB chips (at least not the consumer ones).

Worse case scenario for the OP at that point would be picking up a discounted 4070 Ti Super or 4080 Super in the ballpark of that $800 price point once the 50 series launches.

[GOD RAYS ON ULTRA™]

I hope I don't come off as rude but going from rtx 3060 to rtx 4070 is really dumb. I can't think of one reason besides frame gen and that's no reason that I'd be interested in because the frames aren't even real. That and the rtx 4070 being faster, which means nothing if the rtx 3060 is already doing its job.

The whole 40 series is a huge waste of money and nothing in that entire lineup will offer the value that a 3060 does. The 4060 only has 8g vram and the same with the 4060ti. There's a 16g one but the bus is still only 8 lanes. Yeah, they use a tad less power, but honestly who cares? It's not enough to impact ones power bill.

The other problem I have with the 40 series is the product stack. The rtx 4070 should actually be the rtx 4060 and the 4060 should be the 4050. The whole stack is nothing but nvidia rip off. This company is getting away with giving you the least amount of hardware for the highest price they can charge. Nvidia will give you the least and charge you the most and market it like its the next big tech. I mean they have everyone going nuts for fps that isn't even real.

I could go on about this series but another problem I have is their reliance on these new features just to make games playable with a $600 gpu. The whole gpu thing is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ now ever since intel failed at making gpu. It's like you can't win. If you get amd you miss out on features. If you get nvidia you get ripped off. If you get intel you're screwed.

I am just about over it people. I will be hanging out back here a few gens back where it makes more sense.

[Illusion of Progress]

Originally posted by PopinFRESH:

There hasn't been a "formal" date for the 50 series afaik. There have been leaked targets, but mostly those dates are based on that stupid "graph" that has some "Ada Next" that would appear to be above and slightly to the right of the tick mark on the bottom axis for "2025".

That's a somewhat fair point, but if we can only go by formal time frames, it also means we can't presume late 2024 since they never stated it one way or another. And that graph, while not truly formal, is probably the closest "formal" thing nVidia's indicated compared to "this is when it happened last time". They've sometimes shifted one way or another from the exact month they did last time, after all.

Rumors are rumors, fair, but the latest few I heard seem to indicate a "maybe late 2024, maybe if inventory is selling above expectations, or maybe if AMD forces our hand with RDNA 4". And I'm not sure I'd count on that last one? I'm personally thinking 2025 for consumer Blackwell, and even if it happens 2024, it's not going to be a $500 part that happens at that time so for the masses it may as well be a paper launch. Even Ada was 2023 instead of late 2022 for most people.

It may or may not be true that it gets pushed to 2025 (though as said above, I think it's semantics since OP would be waiting until 2025 anyway unless they are willing to triple their budget or so), but if we operate under the presumption there is no formal date and shouldn't speculate, then there's even less weight to the reasoning of waiting. At least that's how I see it.

Originally posted by PopinFRESH:

Regardless, my rational for saying "yes" on waiting was specifically because the OP said "I honestly get by pretty well at 1440p with my 3060 still" which to me sounds like they are not really convinced themselves that they should be spending the $$ on an upgrade.

Yes, that's also a fair point. I guess I did the opposite and presumed if they were asking, they were somewhat open to the idea. To me anyway, the rest of their post before that statement comes off as "I would entertain more performance than I have, but the only reason I'm questioning it is because the RTX 4070 is the best that fits into my budget".

So my main point was to point out that the RTX 4070/RX 7800 XT, which albeit are a bit above the budget, are around twice as fast as an RTX 3060 and that's not nothing, while everyone else was saying "generation to generation is nothing" or "that budget doesn't give good enough uplifts". I don't know about most others but twice the performance isn't nothing regardless of the generation and that almost fits within the budget (OP listed the RTX 4070 themself so it's fair to assume the budget stretch here I'd say?). Many people here probably make similar or even smaller uplifts than that at times so it came off as a "wait, what?" moment to see all those things being said.

A year or more is a long time to wait for me (I'm a few months of "waiting" due to my issues and that alone enough to make me want to throw the whole thing out and start over, losses be darned because maybe it's time to cut them, so to speak). The Supers I'd wait for though.

Originally posted by ULTRAWOKETRYHARDCRINGE:

The whole stack is nothing but nvidia rip off. This company is getting away with giving you the least amount of hardware for the highest price they can charge. Nvidia will give you the least and charge you the most and market it like its the next big tech.

Sadly, yes. Welcome to the current graphics cards market.

And people seem to be going for it. The current lineup is designed to push people to the RTX 4090 or maybe the RTX 4070 for the masses. The rest are price anchors. Everything is pushed down relative to before, and even the RTX 4080 barely qualifies as an x80 tier product. It's probably the worst selling x80 in history (or at least recent history?) from what I've seen people state? The RTX 4070 Ti might possibly be the worst buy at all, and the RTX 4060 series is just a massive mess. It's a glorified x50. The RTX 4070 is "least bad" because it's really an x60, which are usually "solid enough", but it's a bit overpriced. But like the RX 7800 XT (no generational improvement, by the way!), it wins only by being least bad rather than by being good.

This isn't exclusive entirely to nVidia either, although it's worse with them. There's an argument the 7900 XTX, 7900 XT, and 7800XT should be the 7900 XT, 7800 XT, and 7800 (non-XT) or even 7700 XT respectively, at the least.

Neither of them did a "real" generation, perhaps largely because of the oversupply issues that largely happened because of Ethereum mining setting the value of graphics cards so high during Ampere and Navi 2. But if nVidia decides people went for this enough, then yes, expect them to try and offer as little as possible for as high of prices. This is what happens in a monopoly (a duopoly where one of the two isn't as competitive is an effective monopoly). We saw this from Intel with CPUs in the mid early through mid to late 2010s for the same reason.

[emoticorpse]

Originally posted by Illusion of Progress:

Originally posted by PopinFRESH:

There hasn't been a "formal" date for the 50 series afaik. There have been leaked targets, but mostly those dates are based on that stupid "graph" that has some "Ada Next" that would appear to be above and slightly to the right of the tick mark on the bottom axis for "2025".

That's a somewhat fair point, but if we can only go by formal time frames, it also means we can't presume late 2024 since they never stated it one way or another. And that graph, while not truly formal, is probably the closest "formal" thing nVidia's indicated compared to "this is when it happened last time". They've sometimes shifted one way or another from the exact month they did last time, after all.

Rumors are rumors, fair, but the latest few I heard seem to indicate a "maybe late 2024, maybe if inventory is selling above expectations, or maybe if AMD forces our hand with RDNA 4". And I'm not sure I'd count on that last one? I'm personally thinking 2025 for consumer Blackwell, and even if it happens 2024, it's not going to be a $500 part that happens at that time so for the masses it may as well be a paper launch. Even Ada was 2023 instead of late 2022 for most people.

It may or may not be true that it gets pushed to 2025 (though as said above, I think it's semantics since OP would be waiting until 2025 anyway unless they are willing to triple their budget or so), but if we operate under the presumption there is no formal date and shouldn't speculate, then there's even less weight to the reasoning of waiting. At least that's how I see it.

Originally posted by PopinFRESH:

Regardless, my rational for saying "yes" on waiting was specifically because the OP said "I honestly get by pretty well at 1440p with my 3060 still" which to me sounds like they are not really convinced themselves that they should be spending the $$ on an upgrade.

Yes, that's also a fair point. I guess I did the opposite and presumed if they were asking, they were somewhat open to the idea. To me anyway, the rest of their post before that statement comes off as "I would entertain more performance than I have, but the only reason I'm questioning it is because the RTX 4070 is the best that fits into my budget".

So my main point was to point out that the RTX 4070/RX 7800 XT, which albeit are a bit above the budget, are around twice as fast as an RTX 3060 and that's not nothing, while everyone else was saying "generation to generation is nothing" or "that budget doesn't give good enough uplifts". I don't know about most others but twice the performance isn't nothing regardless of the generation and that almost fits within the budget (OP listed the RTX 4070 themself so it's fair to assume the budget stretch here I'd say?). Many people here probably make similar or even smaller uplifts than that at times so it came off as a "wait, what?" moment to see all those things being said.

A year or more is a long time to wait for me (I'm a few months of "waiting" due to my issues and that alone enough to make me want to throw the whole thing out and start over, losses be darned because maybe it's time to cut them, so to speak). The Supers I'd wait for though.

Originally posted by ULTRAWOKETRYHARDCRINGE:

The whole stack is nothing but nvidia rip off. This company is getting away with giving you the least amount of hardware for the highest price they can charge. Nvidia will give you the least and charge you the most and market it like its the next big tech.

Sadly, yes. Welcome to the current graphics cards market.

And people seem to be going for it. The current lineup is designed to push people to the RTX 4090 or maybe the RTX 4070 for the masses. The rest are price anchors. Everything is pushed down relative to before, and even the RTX 4080 barely qualifies as an x80 tier product. It's probably the worst selling x80 in history (or at least recent history?) from what I've seen people state? The RTX 4070 Ti might possibly be the worst buy at all, and the RTX 4060 series is just a massive mess. It's a glorified x50. The RTX 4070 is "least bad" because it's really an x60, which are usually "solid enough", but it's a bit overpriced. But like the RX 7800 XT (no generational improvement, by the way!), it wins only by being least bad rather than by being good.

This isn't exclusive entirely to nVidia either, although it's worse with them. There's an argument the 7900 XTX, 7900 XT, and 7800XT should be the 7900 XT, 7800 XT, and 7800 (non-XT) or even 7700 XT respectively, at the least.

Neither of them did a "real" generation, perhaps largely because of the oversupply issues that largely happened because of Ethereum mining setting the value of graphics cards so high during Ampere and Navi 2. But if nVidia decides people went for this enough, then yes, expect them to try and offer as little as possible for as high of prices. This is what happens in a monopoly (a duopoly where one of the two isn't as competitive is an effective monopoly). We saw this from Intel with CPUs in the mid early through mid to late 2010s for the same reason.

Hey did you ever get your computer fixed? I was wondering that the other day.

[antoniobennett72]

Wait at least for the Super cards and probably if the 3060 is working for you to ride it out.

Personally, I'm highly likely to go with the 4070ti Super from the 3060ti, the 8GB of VRAM is showing up at times at 1440 and I could use a little more gusto. I was really aiming for a 3080 anyway and just couldn't get one near MSRP during Crypto. I bought a 3070 that never came so I compromised the best I could and had expected a mid generation upgrade was likely.

My 5900x probably will bottleneck anything much more powerful and 16GB should be tolerable at 1440 foreseeably so I expect the 4070ti Super will carry the build through its life as my main computer.

I'd be more inclined to try and limp to the 50 generation if I had any idea what the generation was going to offer but it looks like AMD is going to stay off the high end and NGreedia could do anything including failing to offer any better mid to high end value than they are about to release.

Why wait another year with my style cramped to hopefully save a hundred dollars on a 5070 that they still may try to lowball the VRAM on, I guess is how I'm seeing it.

[Illusion of Progress]

Originally posted by emoticorpse:

Hey did you ever get your computer fixed? I was wondering that the other day.

Unfortunately, it's ongoing.

I don't want to post about my issues in someone else's thread so I'll go make a reply in my own thread for it. I was going to wait to follow up with anything in that thread until I had something more conclusive to share.

[emoticorpse]

Originally posted by Illusion of Progress:

Originally posted by emoticorpse:

Hey did you ever get your computer fixed? I was wondering that the other day.

Unfortunately, it's ongoing.

I don't want to post about my issues in someone else's thread so I'll go make a reply in my own thread for it. I was going to wait to follow up with anything in that thread until I had something more conclusive to share.

OH ok. Sorry to hear that.

[Illusion of Progress]

Originally posted by emoticorpse:

Originally posted by Illusion of Progress:

Unfortunately, it's ongoing.

I don't want to post about my issues in someone else's thread so I'll go make a reply in my own thread for it. I was going to wait to follow up with anything in that thread until I had something more conclusive to share.

OH ok. Sorry to hear that.

It's okay, it means a lot that someone sympathizes, haha. It's been pretty frustrating, but I guess it can't be helped without throwing money at random parts now I guess. I have no further ideas.

If you want any updates on what else I tried/had suggested since I last posted about it, here's a thread I made elsewhere.

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/black-screens-leading-to-restarts-event-id-18-on-amd-platform-since-changing-graphics-card.315835/

I also posted some of the (inconclusive) behaviors I've observed with the return from RMA in my thread on this forum. That way it doesn't clutter someone else's thread here.

But yeah, still ongoing and probably just going to have to buy parts randomly now.

[Χάρης]

Originally posted by DeathMetalJedi:

Originally posted by Χάρης:

For your budget I would go with AMD. Maybe find an RX 7800XT and forget about RT and DLSS.

DLSS 3 is entirely too enticing for me. That, and I am extremely biased lol. I only ever went red one time and it was the 7970 back in 2012 and it was probably the most regrettable decision I ever made as a gamer. Sure I got more fps per dollar but it ran at a thousand degrees and lacked many features that were hip at the time such as physx. Sound familiar?

You can check benchmarks and temps of the 7800xt, afaik it runs pretty cool at 1440p. As for Physx it sucked, that's why it died. It didn't add anything realistic to games. Like, you would shoot 100 bullets on the ground and it wouldn't change shape or anything. The floor was just filled with rocks that would chop your fps in half. Meanwhile other games with more impressive destruction physics came out and ran better. Same ♥♥♥♥ with ray tracing. There are many games with as good reflections, shadows and lighting without it.

[PopinFRESH]

Originally posted by Χάρης:

...As for Physx it sucked, that's why it died. It didn't add anything realistic to games. Like, you would shoot 100 bullets on the ground and it wouldn't change shape or anything. The floor was just filled with rocks that would chop your fps in half. Meanwhile other games with more impressive destruction physics came out and ran better. Same ♥♥♥♥ with ray tracing. There are many games with as good reflections, shadows and lighting without it.

You're hitting the copium canister extra hard now aren't you...