[RUMOR] Ryzen 5 5500X3D and Ryzen 7 5700X3D Incoming?

[Illusion of Progress]

Rumor!

Is... is AM4 going to die at the same time as AM5 or what!?

Both are sourcing to a supposed leaker, though take it with a lot of salt. The 5600X3D ended up happening when rumors of it came about, but... these ones seem even more odd to me. The 5600X3D was supposedly a limited run. What's this, then? Or is this just AMD trying to clear through remaining AMM4 CPU supply? AM4 seems to be selling well on its own right now though?

Supposed New ones in bold; existing ones listed for reference.

Ryzen 7 5800X3D - 8 cores/16 threads, 3.4 GHz base/4.5GHz boost, 105W
Ryzen 7 5700X3D - 8 cores/16 threads, 3.1 GHz base/4.1GHz boost, ??
Ryzen 5 5600X3D - 6 cores/12 threads, 3.3 GHz base/4.4GHz boost, 105W
Ryzen 5 5500X3D - 6 cores/12 threads, 3 GHz base/4GHz boost, ??

If either of these have a chance at a stock 65W due to the lower clock... that would be attractive. It would also tame their performance just a bit from competing with AM5 as well as the 5800X3D/5600X3D do. It might also, interestingly, have the 5600X3D outperforming the 5700X3D in many situations?

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-7-5700x3d-and-ryzen-5-5500x3d-specs

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-readies-8-core-ryzen-7-5700x3d-and-6-core-ryzen-5-5500x3d-with-96mb-l3-cache

This one sort of doesn't make much sense, but... neither did the 5600X3D. Hopefully these have more worldwide availability if they happen. Maybe that's actually what the 5600X3D was, a test run on demand for those on older AM4 CPUs not quite going for the 5800X3D due to cost/cooling cost?

I'm getting ahead of myself imagining a $199, 65W X3D with good availability...

Should we expect a 7600X3D on AM5 soon, too?

[pasa]

I just realized that 5600x3d is a "limited ed"/usa only stuff. Might have been a test balloon. If they have manufacture cpacity for things like that, it makes perfect sense, and at the price beats 58... for many situations. So it would make perfect sense to issue similar for the whole world.

for the 7k line I would not expect additions for long time as they competing on both plant and market with well selling products and then 8000s are inbound. Maybe at the very tail as those in quote and the recent process shifts to even smaller nm.

[Ralf]

I was hoping they would fix the 3d boost clocks like on AM5

[Illusion of Progress]

Ralf님이 먼저 게시:

I was hoping they would fix the 3d boost clocks like on AM5

Fix what? The v-cache equipped CCDs simply have a lower maximum than if they aren't equipped with it. It's a limitation, and it exists on AM5 as well.

The Ryzen 7 7800X3D has a lower boost frequency than the Ryzen 7 7700X. Sure, they're different model numbers, but that's an arbitrary factor in what AMD chose to call them. The behavior is the 8 core/16 thread chip clocks higher in the available iteration without v-cache than it does with it.

And on the 7900X3D and the 7950X3D, the CCDs with v-cache boost lower than those without. AMD isn't very clear in mentioning this clock speed difference like Intel does between p-cores and e-cores, unfortunately, and simply lists the higher of the two on their respective specification pages, but the 7950X will happily boost to ~5.7 GHz, whereas the 7950X3D's v-cache CCD will not boost that high but instead to something like ~5.2 GHz instead.

There's nothing AM5 is doing doing to get around that as it's a limitation. The clock speeds are simply higher on AM5 than on AM4 to begin with, but the disparity between v-cache and no v-cache still exists there. So there's nothing AM4 can do to fix this either.

That said, the lower possible clock speeds and model numbers suggest these aren't meant for maximum performance. Maybe they are trying to make a a 65W iteration (maybe at least with the 5500X3D, I don't know about the 5700X3D). Or maybe these are trying to push AM4 stock out the door. Who knows. Even if a 5 GHz+ 5x00X3D was possible, AMD would be cannibalizing itself to release it. Such a thing would devour pretty much Intel's entire lineup in gaming as well as everything on AMD's own AM5 side besides the 7800X3D, and it's probably come very close to it. As it is, the 5800X3D is offering top performance and any more would be bad. They want to move focus to AM5 and what will come next. This might be a move to rush AM4 supply out? I don't know. It seems weird if it actually happens.

[pasa]

maybe I misunderstood the statement, I heard claims that 5800x3d has similar performance as 7600x. If so, nothing on 5xxx line can be done to cannibalize the new stuff.

[Ralf]

Illusion of Progress님이 먼저 게시:

Ralf님이 먼저 게시:

I was hoping they would fix the 3d boost clocks like on AM5

Fix what? The v-cache equipped CCDs simply have a lower maximum than if they aren't equipped with it. It's a limitation, and it exists on AM5 as well.

And on the 7900X3D and the 7950X3D, the CCDs with v-cache boost lower than those without.

The Ryzen 7 7800X3D has a lower boost frequency than the Ryzen 7 7700X. Sure, they're different model numbers

I got told that:

尺．し工几ᗪヨ尺님이 먼저 게시:

I just looked and in the newer 7000 series it seems the normal X and the 3D versions both boost to the same speeds now so this isn't really an issue anymore.

尺．し工几ᗪヨ尺님이 먼저 게시:

You can't put the 7700X and 7800X3D next to each other and say the 7800X3D had been downclocked based on that because they aren't even the same CPU in the way that the 7900X and 7900X3D are the same just with 3D V-cache.

Why the 7800X3D clocks lowest among Ryzen 7s when that isn't the case for the Ryzen 9 samples is probably because they didn't use the same quality of silicon for the Ryzen 7 as they needed it more with the flagships so they had to lower things a bit again for liability as a poor binned chip running 5.4 might be a bit too self-destructive

[Illusion of Progress]

pasa님이 먼저 게시:

maybe I misunderstood the statement, I heard claims that 5800x3d has similar performance as 7600x. If so, nothing on 5xxx line can be done to cannibalize the new stuff.

Yes, situationally it does.

As an average though, the 5800X3D tends to just barely outperform the entire Ryzen 7000 lineup (excluding the Ryzen 7000 X3Ds themselves) and Intel's 12th generation (and a good part of the 13th, too) in gaming. It's way different when including beyond just gaming, of course, but most people looking at an AMD X3D CPU to begin with are probably prioritizing gaming to some extent.

Therefore, a supposed 5x00X3D that is 550 MHz higher than the 5800X3D would definitely be expected to perform even higher. Of course, such a thing will never exist anyway because the clock speed deficit is a limitation that exists and can't be erased here so it doesn't matter; it was hypothetical to begin with.

[Illusion of Progress]

Ralf님이 먼저 게시:

I got told that:

尺．し工几ᗪヨ尺님이 먼저 게시:

I just looked and in the newer 7000 series it seems the normal X and the 3D versions both boost to the same speeds now so this isn't really an issue anymore.

尺．し工几ᗪヨ尺님이 먼저 게시:

You can't put the 7700X and 7800X3D next to each other and say the 7800X3D had been downclocked based on that because they aren't even the same CPU in the way that the 7900X and 7900X3D are the same just with 3D V-cache.

Why the 7800X3D clocks lowest among Ryzen 7s when that isn't the case for the Ryzen 9 samples is probably because they didn't use the same quality of silicon for the Ryzen 7 as they needed it more with the flagships so they had to lower things a bit again for liability as a poor binned chip running 5.4 might be a bit too self-destructive

Well the CCDs with v-cache definitely don't boost as high as without, so I'm not sure what to say. It's part of the tradeoff with them and it still applies on AM5, at least right now.

[Bad 💀 Motha]

The TDP is most likely still 105W

Looks to me like 5700X3D and 5500X3D are just lower clocked binned variants of the CPU above them, 5800X3D and 5600X3D

[r.linder]

Bad 💀 Motha님이 먼저 게시:

The TDP is most likely still 105W

Looks to me like 5700X3D and 5500X3D are just lower clocked binned variants of the CPU above them, 5800X3D and 5600X3D

That's likely to be exactly what they are, just bins that couldn't meet the spec so they're getting rid of the bad bins
5500X3D will probably be another limited time thing at Microcenter while the 5700X3D might continue for as long as they keep making 5800X3Ds

Illusion of Progress님이 먼저 게시:

Ralf님이 먼저 게시:

I got told that:

Well the CCDs with v-cache definitely don't boost as high as without, so I'm not sure what to say. It's part of the tradeoff with them and it still applies on AM5, at least right now.

There are more concerning issues with the 7900X3D and 7950X3D regardless, since the scheduling for those two SKUs are still boofed as always on Windows.

All it takes is for a load to not trigger the scheduler to use the v-cache die for the performance to be completely left off the table, there are instances where games just won't get the v-cache so the money ends up being wasted for that particular game.

Not the first time that Ryzen CPUs had scheduling problems with Windows. Intel gets all the love as usual. And as usual, Ryzen 9's dual CCD design works against it for gamers, defeats the whole purpose of gamers buying the CPU unless they need the extra cores for other things, but they're just giving themselves unnecessary headaches with Windows since the scheduling works better for Intel, and the combination of the higher core count and now APO just makes it seem like a waste above the 7800X3D.

[Bad 💀 Motha]

What's wrong with 7800X3D? I highly doubt most people need what a 7900/7950 offers. It won't do a dam thing better for Gaming.

[Tiberius]

Because there're still alot of untapped market in the low end pc. Just look at the pc spec thread, many ppl still build with extremely outdated (presumably cheap) cpu

[C1REX]

pasa님이 먼저 게시:

maybe I misunderstood the statement, I heard claims that 5800x3d has similar performance as 7600x. If so, nothing on 5xxx line can be done to cannibalize the new stuff.

It depends on the games. In some games, the 7600 and 7600x can be faster than the 5800x3D.

I'm personally surprised by how expensive the 5800x3D still is. It's barely cheaper than the 7800x3D and much more expensive than the 7600(x) and 7700(x).

I was considering upgrading to the 5800x3D, but the prices didn't make sense to me, so I decided to opt for a new platform with the 7800x3D

[Illusion of Progress]

Bad 💀 Motha님이 먼저 게시:

The TDP is most likely still 105W

Looks to me like 5700X3D and 5500X3D are just lower clocked binned variants of the CPU above them, 5800X3D and 5600X3D

I'm sort of thinking the same, but I'm hoping the lower clocks, especially on the 5500X3D, are low enough they might be 65W.

They're still going to need moderately good cooling regardless but this would help push that down.

尺．し工几ᗪヨ尺님이 먼저 게시:

There are more concerning issues with the 7900X3D and 7950X3D regardless, since the scheduling for those two SKUs are still boofed as always on Windows.

Yeah, I know about the scheduler stuff. I wasn't referring to that part though. I was simply pointing to the fact that AMD only officially discloses the higher boost speed on the 7900X3D and the 7950X3D, even though the CCDs with v-cache on those two CPUs don't boost as high. You need to think of it like Intel's e-cores and p-cores; while these are far different since they are the same cores and one just has more cache, there's a clock speed disparity. You can't assume the advertised "main" boost speed Intel lists applies to the e-cores. Same with these; the advertised boost speed does not apply to the CCDs with v-cache. AMD really should be disclosing this.

It leads to some people thinking AM5 somehow fixed the v-cache CCDs not being able to boost as high when it didn't. It's a physical limitation that still exists. it's "disguised" on AM5 because two of the CPUs have mixed CCDs, and the other hads no direct non-X3D counterpart (but you really can just compare it to the 7700X, because even if a 7800X existed, it would only be clocked higher, and the 7700X is already higher clocked than the 7800X3D, so the disparity still exists).

[Illusion of Progress]

C1REX-PL님이 먼저 게시:

I'm personally surprised by how expensive the 5800x3D still is. It's barely cheaper than the 7800x3D and much more expensive than the 7600(x) and 7700(x).

Where are you at? It's usually ~$320 to $360 here in the US, but it's been down to ~$280 I think. Often ~$300 at Micro Center. I got it early this year when it dropped to $300 at Micro Center. Was closer to $360+ elsewhere before that time so I had to jump on it, but it's definitely been trending down. Nowhere near the $450 the 7800X3D usually is (which itself was $299 a week ago or so at Micro Center), but yeah it's probably close to the 7700X. If you're already on AM4 though the 5800X3D is the better move.

I'm considering moving to AM5 with the 8800X3D/9800X3D (whichever numbering it ends up using). Depends on several factors but it's what I'd like to do.

[Ralf]

Illusion of Progress님이 먼저 게시:

C1REX-PL님이 먼저 게시:

I'm personally surprised by how expensive the 5800x3D still is. It's barely cheaper than the 7800x3D and much more expensive than the 7600(x) and 7700(x).

Where are you at? It's usually ~$320 to $360 here in the US, but it's been down to ~$280 I think. Often ~$300 at Micro Center. I got it early this year when it dropped to $300 at Micro Center. Was closer to $360+ elsewhere before that time so I had to jump on it, but it's definitely been trending down. Nowhere near the $450 the 7800X3D usually is (which itself was $299 a week ago or so at Micro Center), but yeah it's probably close to the 7700X. If you're already on AM4 though the 5800X3D is the better move.

I'm considering moving to AM5 with the 8800X3D/9800X3D (whichever numbering it ends up using). Depends on several factors but it's what I'd like to do.

I too think that the 5800X3D costs too much money.
In my country(prices converted to Euro):
5800X3D - 325€
7800X3D - 400€
7500F - 200€
7600 - 235€
7700 - 330€

I can get a 7500F+B650+32GB for only 100€ more than a 5800X3D, if one sells his AM4 parts you could even make some money.