A10 7870k or 7850k? :: Hardware and Operating Systems

Aliquis Freedom & Ethnopluralism 4 kwietnia 2016 o 4:11

Początkowo opublikowane przez Kid Ayy:
VRAM amount has nothing to do with it. I'm refering to a 256-336 bit (Nvidia) vs. 512-4096 bit (AMD) bus width. In other words, Nvidia just doesn't have the bus width to keep up with AMD at 4k and over.

Basically Nvidia put 8gb of GDDR5 on about 8 channels. While AMD put 4gb of GDDR5 on 16 channels. So if you're trying to push that 8gb of GDDR5 on an Nvidia chipset, it's going to be bottlenecking. But that 4gb on the AMD will be used much more efficiently. Moving lots of pixels down those channels is going to be more effective over 16 channels rather than 8 regardless of how much vRAM is there. Which is where there is usually less performance loss at higher resolution with AMD. Nvidia is kind of choking it's GPUs.

Then again Maxwell was supposed to compress textures by twice as much as Keplar and got lower bandwidth than at-least some old card but the idea there was likely that it would be enough / not worse all things considered anyway?

#76

Aliquis Freedom & Ethnopluralism 4 kwietnia 2016 o 4:17

Początkowo opublikowane przez Kid Ayy:
2k picture is what's being spit out 60 times a second.

I still don't think 2K should be used as a name for what would rather be 2.5K video and have the name WQHD.
Now if one think 2K sound more hip and unique than FHD and use it there then at-least it would had made some logical sense but FHD/1080p is much better worked in names and the people who make phones for some stupid reason call WQHD 2K so it will just be confusing and better be avoided anyway.

#77

Big Boned Lizzo 4 kwietnia 2016 o 6:14

well i didnt mean to start a discussion between amd vs nvidia. so basically from this most games are optimized for nvidia gpu? if so will a nvidia gpu work well with a amd cpu? ive managed to get my ram in dual channel mode will this make a difference?

#78

Mystic Referee 4 kwietnia 2016 o 7:24

Początkowo opublikowane przez Readrd:
well i didnt mean to start a discussion between amd vs nvidia. so basically from this most games are optimized for nvidia gpu? if so will a nvidia gpu work well with a amd cpu? ive managed to get my ram in dual channel mode will this make a difference?

I have a similar processor and an R9 270x. I bottleneck that card.

The difference here is actually this. Since my brother has the same card I can elaborate. I play GTA V at lower settings at around 35-40fps. I play at 1920 x 1080 because the full UWD experience isn't pretty at 30fps and lower. I have a Athlon 955.

He has an R9 270x with a 6th gen Intel i5. He plays GTA V at high in everything but a couple of settings. He gets 40-50 fps. He plays at 4k, which is 4x the amount of pixels.

So, you tell me. Dropping almost $250-$300 on a new CPU and a GPU that you're going to bottleneck. Is that the best way to spend your money?

Ostatnio edytowany przez: Mystic Referee; 4 kwietnia 2016 o 7:25

#79

Aliquis Freedom & Ethnopluralism 4 kwietnia 2016 o 7:32

Początkowo opublikowane przez Readrd:
well i didnt mean to start a discussion between amd vs nvidia. so basically from this most games are optimized for nvidia gpu? if so will a nvidia gpu work well with a amd cpu? ive managed to get my ram in dual channel mode will this make a difference?

Nvidia has 75-80% of the market, or have had recently which may put some more focus there.
Nvidia is quicker in releasing new drivers once a new large title comes out.
And Nvidia releases GameWorks which has been somewhat of a black box for the developers which they don't have full control of and Nvidia has possibly also added features into games which may not really have been necessary or worth the performance hit but I think Nvidia also grant money for having their stuff included as marketing?
People likely consider the DirectX 11 and below drivers of Nvidia better too, on Linux and in Nvidia case also on others the closed-source Nvidia drivers has performed better than the AMD ones too.

With Mantle, DirectX 12 and Vulkan I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.
AMD have their orn software packages for effects made on the graphics card, it may not be as complete but I think theirs are open (Nvidia opened up at least some of theirs too recently) and it may have less of an impact on both manufacturers cards.

I guess to be fair the driver quality may be better with Nvidia, they control GameWorks, they sell more cards, they have more money, on the other hand in the benchmarks in various games that of course include the driver packages and game optimizations too so what it shows is what you get. I've seen some complain about how AMD drivers are bad and how AMD cards is an announce to this date too and then I also see some who mean that's unfair and that's not how it is. I don't know what's true. I run a HD6950 myself now and that card will not get any more drivers but it works for now. Earlier I prefered Nvidia because before I went with bundles and Steam I used to run BSDs mostly but also some Linux and hence the drivers there was a big deal for me but today I would kinda prefer AMD to support FreeSync which is cheaper than G-sync and just to support them because they are smaller and to try to improve competition and standards in the field.

The Nvidia GPU work fine with AMD CPU and it may even be preferable I guess if the case is that Nvidia DirectX 11 drivers uses less processor than AMD ones (I don't know if that's the case) considering the somewhat weak processor.
Would be interesting to find benchmarks of high performing graphics cards on low performing processors to see how efficient the drivers are there.

Dual channel likely won't do much of a difference but it won't hurt at-least (and it would in a memory benchmark so maybe.)

I don't really manage to find any comparision for processor usage for each driver. I don't know if either uses less than the other and if so how much and if Nvidia uses less.

I don't know what price point we're discussing either. In general I'd pick the R9 380 over the GTX 960.

#80

Rove 4 kwietnia 2016 o 7:39

Początkowo opublikowane przez Readrd:
well i didnt mean to start a discussion between amd vs nvidia. so basically from this most games are optimized for nvidia gpu? if so will a nvidia gpu work well with a amd cpu? ive managed to get my ram in dual channel mode will this make a difference?

Did you test your APU integrated graphics again then?

Single channel to dual channel will make a improvement but there's still lots of stuff that won't play well on the APUs integrated graphics even when they are tuned up to the max.

#81

Big Boned Lizzo 4 kwietnia 2016 o 7:44

Początkowo opublikowane przez Rove:
Początkowo opublikowane przez Readrd:
well i didnt mean to start a discussion between amd vs nvidia. so basically from this most games are optimized for nvidia gpu? if so will a nvidia gpu work well with a amd cpu? ive managed to get my ram in dual channel mode will this make a difference?

Did you test your APU integrated graphics again then?

Single channel to dual channel will make a improvement but there's still lots of stuff that won't play well on the APUs integrated graphics even when they are tuned up to the max.

yes i have and games run alot better than before but there is quite a bit of stuttering on some games and things run a bit slower

its also getting hot just at idle (50 degrees)

Ostatnio edytowany przez: Big Boned Lizzo; 4 kwietnia 2016 o 7:49

#82

Rove 4 kwietnia 2016 o 8:00

Początkowo opublikowane przez Readrd:
Początkowo opublikowane przez Rove:

Did you test your APU integrated graphics again then?

Single channel to dual channel will make a improvement but there's still lots of stuff that won't play well on the APUs integrated graphics even when they are tuned up to the max.

yes i have and games run alot better than before but there is quite a bit of stuttering on some games and things run a bit slower

its also getting hot just at idle (50 degrees)

I think the stuttering may be due to not having enough RAM. The integrated graphics take RAM from the system so when they are using 2GB of RAM you only have 4GB of RAM left of 6GB.

Could also just be due to the fact that they are still fairly low power, like a R7 240 in power.

Get AMD Overdrive and check your idle and usage "thermal margin" this gives a lot more accurate readout. Also is this degrees F or C? Your APU is good to 71C.

#83

Big Boned Lizzo 4 kwietnia 2016 o 8:08

Początkowo opublikowane przez Rove:
Początkowo opublikowane przez Readrd:

yes i have and games run alot better than before but there is quite a bit of stuttering on some games and things run a bit slower

its also getting hot just at idle (50 degrees)

I think the stuttering may be due to not having enough RAM. The integrated graphics take RAM from the system so when they are using 2GB of RAM you only have 4GB of RAM left of 6GB.

Could also just be due to the fact that they are still fairly low power, like a R7 240 in power.

Get AMD Overdrive and check your idle and usage "thermal margin" this gives a lot more accurate readout. Also is this degrees F or C? Your APU is good to 71C.

i have crismson and i use to have overdrive but its disappeared. its in degrees celsius,when i had gpu it wasnt as hot

#84

Rove 4 kwietnia 2016 o 9:06

Ok are you seeing 50C "thermal margin" or 50C temperature? 2 different things.

Also what temperature does ti get at 100% load? The A10-6700 should be pretty cool running.

Might want to get some thermal paste and reapply to your cooler or get a new cooler if it's hot.

Ostatnio edytowany przez: Rove; 4 kwietnia 2016 o 9:06

#85

Big Boned Lizzo 4 kwietnia 2016 o 9:22

Początkowo opublikowane przez Rove:
Ok are you seeing 50C "thermal margin" or 50C temperature? 2 different things.

Also what temperature does ti get at 100% load? The A10-6700 should be pretty cool running.

Might want to get some thermal paste and reapply to your cooler or get a new cooler if it's hot.

im using gpu z thats saying 50c temp. 100% load is about 60c but with the dedicated gpu it was about 40-50c. the stuttering wasnt low fps the fps was about 40 in some games but when i moved the camera it would stutter does this make any difference
it cools really quickly though as soon as i exit game it goes down to 46c

Ostatnio edytowany przez: Big Boned Lizzo; 4 kwietnia 2016 o 9:23

#86

Rove 4 kwietnia 2016 o 9:36

1. GPU-Z might be measuring socket temp. Try using AMD Crimson or Overdrive to measure.
2. 60C at 100% load is absolutely fine on a A10-6700 APU though I'd have thought it cooler.
3. I'm not 100% sure what causes the sutter since I don't know which games at which settings but my best guess is it just might be because of your mismatched RAM or not enough RAM.

Try following my previous shopping recommendation and getting the 16GB of RAM and the case and see if the stutter goes away. If not then it wasn't the RAM and probably just the low power integrated GPU. That will be fixed when you buy a new GPU with the second upgrade plan.

#87

Big Boned Lizzo 4 kwietnia 2016 o 10:02

Początkowo opublikowane przez Rove:
1. GPU-Z might be measuring socket temp. Try using AMD Crimson or Overdrive to measure.
2. 60C at 100% load is absolutely fine on a A10-6700 APU though I'd have thought it cooler.
3. I'm not 100% sure what causes the sutter since I don't know which games at which settings but my best guess is it just might be because of your mismatched RAM or not enough RAM.

Try following my previous shopping recommendation and getting the 16GB of RAM and the case and see if the stutter goes away. If not then it wasn't the RAM and probably just the low power integrated GPU. That will be fixed when you buy a new GPU with the second upgrade plan.

on crimson there use to be a setting for oc gpu but now thats dissapeared also where would the cpu temp be on crimson if you know. cities skylines was the worst i had on low and it was really good fps but stuttering badly.

#88

Rove 4 kwietnia 2016 o 10:07

Maybe RAM, maybe just some games don't support APU well or need more powerful graphics.

Download AMD Overdrive, a separate preogram from Crimson or Catalyst and check temps. Don't worry though, 60C is fine even if it's that hot. I would have guessed more like 50C at load.

EDIT: here;s the likely problem in Cities: Skylines
MINIMUM:
OS: Microsoft Windows XP/Vista/7/8/8.1 (64-bit)
Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo, 3.0GHz or AMD Athlon 64 X2 6400+, 3.2GHz
Memory: 4 GB RAM
Graphics: nVIDIA GeForce GTX 260, 512 MB or ATI Radeon HD 5670, 512 MB (Does not support Intel Integrated Graphics Cards)
DirectX: Version 9.0c
Network: Broadband Internet connection
Storage: 4 GB available space

"(Does not support Intel Integrated Graphics Cards)" probably means it also doesn't support AMD integrated graphics or at least not well. Probably near minimum specs in power as well.

Ostatnio edytowany przez: Rove; 4 kwietnia 2016 o 10:13

#89

Aliquis Freedom & Ethnopluralism 4 kwietnia 2016 o 10:26

Początkowo opublikowane przez Readrd:
on crimson there use to be a setting for oc gpu but now thats dissapeared also where would the cpu temp be on crimson if you know. cities skylines was the worst i had on low and it was really good fps but stuttering badly.

V-sync and stuttering?
Or V-sync off and tearing?

#90

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