why 60hz on 100hz monitor look bad ?

[KianyaNoTuna]

recently ive got a new 100hz monitor, my old monitor was 60hz. while playing rdr 2 i notice that when i change the refresh rate to 60hz (on my 100hz monitor) the camera motion look unsmooth. Btw my monitor does not support gsync so i always use vsync to get rid of the tearing

[Julien, cut it out.]

It looks unsmooth because the frames are not equally delivered over time to the monitor because of running the game at a lower FPS than the monitor's native refresh rate while VSync is enabled.

Without VSync, there is one place (framebuffer) in video memory in which the GPU writes its output - the image you see on your screen - and the monitor reads. Since the writing and reading of these data are not synchronised and writing happens rather arbitrarily (frametime), you don't see a full image/ picture at any given time. There are tears on the screen.

To avoid this artifacting called screen tearing, VSync was introduced. It prohibits the GPU from updating the framebuffer during the monitor's read cycle of that data.
Instead, there is a second place used in video memory for the creation of the latest data/image. When the GPU has finished its calculation and the data is ready, the GPU tells the monitor to read the new data (change of framebuffer), so that the GPU can start to create the subsequent image on the now unused framebuffer.

The issue when the FPS are lower than the monitor's refresh rate in a VSync scenario; The monitor has read the data but the image is not ready to be swapped, because the GPU is still doing calculations on the subsequent image. Because of this, there won't be a swap of the framebuffer and instead the monitor will show the same image for multiple cycles of the monitor's refresh rate. This induces stuttering, because some frames are shown for a longer period of time than others.

FPS is just an average number and does not give insight about the succession of frames. The time for the calculation of a frame by the GPU varies.

KianyaNoTuna původně napsal:

I reduce the refresh rate cause my fps is below the 100hz. Is about 60 to 67 fps when I play rdr 2 at 4k so I want to cap the refresh rate at 60hz to prevent tearing and unsmooth when rotating the camera

Running the monitor at a lower refresh rate than native is the only thing you can do to avoid screen tearing without a VRR-featured monitor.

Use NVCP or AMD's equivalent to create a custom resolution and refresh rate profile.

You seem to confuse FPS - the ability of the GPU to perform a certain workload in a period of time - with Hz - the monitor's ability to show the content of the framebuffer in a period of time.

[Syad]

The OP is asking why his new 60Hz monitor feels less smooth than his old 60Hz monitor. And the info that's missing here are the names of the 2 monitors.

[KianyaNoTuna]

Julien, cut it out. původně napsal:

It looks unsmooth because the frames are not equally delivered over time to the monitor because of running the game at a lower FPS than the monitor's native refresh rate while VSync is enabled.

Without VSync, there is one place (framebuffer) in video memory in which the GPU writes its output - the image you see on your screen - and the monitor reads. Since the writing and reading of these data are not synchronised and writing happens rather arbitrarily (frametime), you don't see a full image/ picture at any given time. There are tears on the screen.

To avoid this artifacting called screen tearing, VSync was introduced. It prohibits the GPU from updating the framebuffer during the monitor's read cycle of that data.
Instead, there is a second place used in video memory for the creation of the latest data/image. When the GPU has finished its calculation and the data is ready, the GPU tells the monitor to read the new data (change of framebuffer), so that the GPU can start to create the subsequent image on the now unused framebuffer.

The issue when the FPS are lower than the monitor's refresh rate in a VSync scenario; The monitor has read the data but the image is not ready to be swapped, because the GPU is still doing calculations on the subsequent image. Because of this, there won't be a swap of the framebuffer and instead the monitor will show the same image for multiple cycles of the monitor's refresh rate. This induces stuttering, because some frames are shown for a longer period of time than others.

FPS is just an average number and does not give insight about the succession of frames. The time for the calculation of a frame by the GPU varies.

KianyaNoTuna původně napsal:

I reduce the refresh rate cause my fps is below the 100hz. Is about 60 to 67 fps when I play rdr 2 at 4k so I want to cap the refresh rate at 60hz to prevent tearing and unsmooth when rotating the camera

Running the monitor at a lower refresh rate than native is the only thing you can do to avoid screen tearing without a VRR-featured monitor.

Use NVCP or AMD's equivalent to create a custom resolution and refresh rate profile.

You seem to confuse FPS - the ability of the GPU to perform a certain workload in a period of time - with Hz - the monitor's ability to show the content of the framebuffer in a period of time.

No I do not confuse about fps and hz I just use the wrong word instead of saying cap the refresh rate I should say I reduce the refresh rate from 100hz to 60hz. And rdr 2 has an option that allow u change the refresh rate. I dont want to run game at 60 to 67 fps with 100hz so I reduce the monitor refresh rate to 60hz to reduce rearing but that 60hz is not as smooth as a 4k 60hz monitor I used to have

[Agent]

KianyaNoTuna původně napsal:

Julien, cut it out. původně napsal:

It looks unsmooth because the frames are not equally delivered over time to the monitor because of running the game at a lower FPS than the monitor's native refresh rate while VSync is enabled.

Without VSync, there is one place (framebuffer) in video memory in which the GPU writes its output - the image you see on your screen - and the monitor reads. Since the writing and reading of these data are not synchronised and writing happens rather arbitrarily (frametime), you don't see a full image/ picture at any given time. There are tears on the screen.

To avoid this artifacting called screen tearing, VSync was introduced. It prohibits the GPU from updating the framebuffer during the monitor's read cycle of that data.
Instead, there is a second place used in video memory for the creation of the latest data/image. When the GPU has finished its calculation and the data is ready, the GPU tells the monitor to read the new data (change of framebuffer), so that the GPU can start to create the subsequent image on the now unused framebuffer.

The issue when the FPS are lower than the monitor's refresh rate in a VSync scenario; The monitor has read the data but the image is not ready to be swapped, because the GPU is still doing calculations on the subsequent image. Because of this, there won't be a swap of the framebuffer and instead the monitor will show the same image for multiple cycles of the monitor's refresh rate. This induces stuttering, because some frames are shown for a longer period of time than others.

FPS is just an average number and does not give insight about the succession of frames. The time for the calculation of a frame by the GPU varies.

Running the monitor at a lower refresh rate than native is the only thing you can do to avoid screen tearing without a VRR-featured monitor.

Use NVCP or AMD's equivalent to create a custom resolution and refresh rate profile.

You seem to confuse FPS - the ability of the GPU to perform a certain workload in a period of time - with Hz - the monitor's ability to show the content of the framebuffer in a period of time.

No I do not confuse about fps and hz I just use the wrong word instead of saying cap the refresh rate I should say I reduce the refresh rate from 100hz to 60hz. And rdr 2 has an option that allow u change the refresh rate. I dont want to run game at 60 to 67 fps with 100hz so I reduce the monitor refresh rate to 60hz to reduce rearing but that 60hz is not as smooth as a 4k 60hz monitor I used to have

What's your frametime latency like? It will be more on 4k than say 1440p.

[_I_]

KianyaNoTuna původně napsal:

_I_ původně napsal:

how are you changing the refresh rate?
in gpu control panel?
or are you limiting fps to 60 while refresh is still at 100hz

In RDR 2 there is an option that let u change the refresh rate

does the change reflect in the monitors osd menu?
if its using windowed full, its still using windows desktop refresh, and 60 will have odd frame pacing

[A&A]

With the Custom Resolution Utility, you can add FreeSync if the monitor has panel self-refresh feature.

[Rod]

I tried gsync and everything and 60hz was not good on 120hz. Thats why i bought a 60hz portable oled. I dont know why but it just doesnt work.


On screens past 60hz say 100-120hz you need 120fps. But not on 240-500hz there you still only need 120. So on that screen half the fps is smooth but on 120hz it isnt? Its crazy ive used pcs for 25yrs and cant explain this.

[Bad 💀 Motha]

KianyaNoTuna původně napsal:

Tiberius původně napsal:

Idk, but its always better to run at native hz. Then cap your fps with nvidia control panel if you wanna limit your fps

I reduce the refresh rate cause my fps is below the 100hz. Is about 60 to 67 fps when I play rdr 2 at 4k so I want to cap the refresh rate at 60hz to prevent tearing and unsmooth when rotating the camera

That's jiat doing it all wrong. Doesn't matter if it's 500Hz and get 60 FPS. You want to run the 500Hz for the panel to work like it's supposed to. Then apply a VSync setting that works properly with avoiding screen tearing such as VSync=Fast

[KianyaNoTuna]

Everyone recently i just realized that 60hz on a 120hz is better than on a 100hz. Because my monitor is 100hz so its sweet spot gonna be 100hz 75hz 50hz, unlike 120hz sweet spot are 120hz, 90hz, 60z. The sweet spot of each monitor is its highest refresh rate minus 25% of it

In conclusion if u want a smooth 60fps on a high refresh rate monitor u should choose a monitor which have a refresh rate divisible by 60

[A&A]

That doesn't make any sense, but okay.
It sounds like if I'm 144, the sweet spot is 72. No, just not.

Who knows what makes the camera unsmooth. Perhaps because the monitor has a VA matrix (panel) and creates ghosting - like if the objects leave traces if there is movement. To check if you have this problem on UFO Test can be seen very easily.

[_I_]

66/75% is uneven frame pacing too

50/33/25% are duplicating even numbers of frames, will not be as jittery

but if freesync/gsync is working correctly, the refresh rate will be lowered to match the output of the gpu

[Julien, cut it out.]

KianyaNoTuna původně napsal:

Everyone recently i just realized that 60hz on a 120hz is better than on a 100hz. Because my monitor is 100hz so its sweet spot gonna be 100hz 75hz 50hz, unlike 120hz sweet spot are 120hz, 90hz, 60z. The sweet spot of each monitor is its highest refresh rate minus 25% of it

In conclusion if u want a smooth 60fps on a high refresh rate monitor u should choose a monitor which have a refresh rate divisible by 60

There is no "sweet spot". The monitor should be able to produce an output at any arbitrary frequency up to its maximum refresh rate or the maximum signal bandwitdh of the data cable.

You can create a profile within Nvidia Control Panel or AMD Radeon Software (or Custom Resolution Utility) and choose an arbitrary frequency within the monitor's or cable's limit. The panel will output the images at that specified frequency.
The monitor's OSD/menu should tell you the frequency the monitor is running at.

The only valid scenario of these number games is with a software solution like Adaptive VSync or RTSS' Scanyline Sync x/2 respectively x2. (double or half the FPS of the monitor's refresh rate)

Regarding RDR2:
I don't own RDR2, so I can't test the impact of that 'refresh rate' option. Can you evaluate if that option actually changes the monitor's refresh rate by looking at the monitor's OSD (menu of the monitor). The information tab should show the refresh rate. _I_ mentioned it in post #20.

Furthermore, frametime inconsistencies (stutters) are visible on a frametime graph provided by a many hardware monitoring tools like MSI Afterburner (or RTSS itself).

[Tiberius]

_I_ původně napsal:

66/75% is uneven frame pacing too

50/33/25% are duplicating even numbers of frames, will not be as jittery

I thought vrr should prevent this

[_I_]

Tiberius původně napsal:

_I_ původně napsal:

66/75% is uneven frame pacing too

50/33/25% are duplicating even numbers of frames, will not be as jittery

I thought vrr should prevent this

op display does not support gsync/freesync

[Bad 💀 Motha]

And using AMD GPU too?