What is the point in very high frame rates?

[mc5686]

This is out of pure curiosity:
I have seen very often hardware boasting 100+ FPS on "heavy" games.
OTOH AFAIK our eyes are incapable to appreciate more than ~30 FPS, at that rate even flickering is not appreciable.
Is there any real reason to to try to push higher than ~50/60 FPS?
What am I missing?

[wesnef]

Originally posted by Andrius227:

Originally posted by Reaper:

People can see up to 60 fps. At 120+ fps the motion will be so smooth that you might not even be able to tell the difference some people can. For me I can just barely see the difference between 60 and 120.

I used to think that 60fps is plenty. Then i got to experience 144hz and now 60fps feels awful. Although i am not too crazy about 144hz. I often drop down to 100 or 85hz to save power, especially during summer. Doesnt make much difference to me as long as its >60hz.

Whereas I never got on board the "60fps or it's awful!" train, so "only" 60fps doesn't bother me. (ex: played CP2077 at release with low-30's fps, and thought it was fine - RX 570, 1080p, med/high settings) And the few times I've tried it (now that I've got a bigger GPU and 144hz monitor), I couldn't really tell the difference of above-60 framerates.


I'm sure it also matters what games one plays. I don't do fast-twitch multiplayer pvp, for instance (I've heard people say that uber-high framerates are important for esports-level pvp shooters)

[The Commendatore]

To repeat what the others said: You can definitely see a difference.

For me though, if it gets too high, I just get dizzy.

[Illusion of Progress]

Originally posted by PopinFRESH:

Your AC power is 60Hz, regardless of the displays frequency. The vacuum motor was just causing a non-uniform load on the power lines which results in slight ripples in the power which impacted the stability of the power going to the electron gun in your CRT.

Mhm, I thought as much.

But the way I was possibly reading the post was that changing the refresh rate from 60 to a slight value below would fix it (maybe I was reading this part wrong?), so I thought it was being stated that moving to a non-60Hz value would remedy it.

[PopinFRESH]

Originally posted by Illusion of Progress:

Originally posted by PopinFRESH:

Your AC power is 60Hz, regardless of the displays frequency. The vacuum motor was just causing a non-uniform load on the power lines which results in slight ripples in the power which impacted the stability of the power going to the electron gun in your CRT.

Mhm, I thought as much.

But the way I was possibly reading the post was that changing the refresh rate from 60 to a slight value below would fix it (maybe I was reading this part wrong?), so I thought it was being stated that moving to a non-60Hz value would remedy it.

It's not that it was a non-60Hz value and while they are similar in nature the issues you're describing is different than the issue that I think _|_ was talking about. I think the issue they are referring to was with the moiré patterning resulting from the frequency difference between the sound and the difference color signals. NTSC shifted the frequency down slightly to avoid this.

The issue you're describing is similar in that it is another frequency distorting the frequency of the AC power but I don't think you're talking about the same issue.

[Zefar]

Originally posted by mc5686:

This is out of pure curiosity:
I have seen very often hardware boasting 100+ FPS on "heavy" games.
OTOH AFAIK our eyes are incapable to appreciate more than ~30 FPS, at that rate even flickering is not appreciable.
Is there any real reason to to try to push higher than ~50/60 FPS?
What am I missing?

VR has to run in 90+ FPS in order to not make people physically ill when using the headset because it's at that point where things get smooth enough for the eyes.

The 30 FPS remark is so easily debunked I can't believe people still believe it's true.
https://www.testufo.com/framerates-versus
If you can't tell the difference, something is wrong with you or your hardware only support 30 FPS.

Originally posted by Rod:

Yeah you might want to stop spreading false statements about 30fps. I can see the difference in 240 bs 280. You must be blind seriously or have no concept of sample and hold blur.


Sample and hold legit destroys the silly post.

You're right about 30 FPS but above 240 FPS? No, US army did test on their fighter pilots and they capped out at around 220 FPS.

[A&A]

There is no point having higher FPS than your monitor's refresh rate, unless you are playing an esport game.

Actually, the difference between 30 and 50FPS is huge, unless you are using motion blur.

Originally posted by Zefar:

You're right about 30 FPS but above 240 FPS? No, US army did test on their fighter pilots and they capped out at around 220 FPS.

220FPS and 360FPS have a difference of 1.4ms and knowing that the average response time is around 200ms, the tests become expensive and the results are close to measurement errors.

[r.linder]

An advantage that most people seem to miss when it comes to high framerates is the lowered frametimes.

Frametimes are just as important if not more important than frames per second, because it's the amount of time that each frame takes to render.

The standard frametime for 60 FPS is around 16.7ms, while for 30 FPS, it's 33.3ms. The lower your frametimes, the more smoothly that frames are rendered, which is the real reason why high framerates look so much smoother on a high refresh rate display, if for some reason your frametimes were still 16ms or higher even at 144Hz, it wouldn't give the full benefit.

That said, once you cross the 240 FPS mark, the benefits heavily drop as frametime improvements become so minimal when you step up to 360, 420, etc.

[Rod]

Originally posted by _I_:

Originally posted by Rod:

The background in Luigis Mansion vibrates on the Switch OLED. I find it unplayable its so distracting. Its basic image quality. Zelda BOTW same problems not so much just feels awful.


You only see this on 30fps every 60fps game on the oled plays great i got no issues at all until someone starts to mess with the framerate and they change it to dynamic or 30.

kind aexplains it, luigis mansion was a gamecube game, made to run at 480i
so if its emulating the gamecbue, it would be drawing alternating +/- frames updating half the image at a time
(even and odd lines at 60fps, but an entire frame even+odd at 30fps)

Nah its the third one and a native Switch game. Its simply 30fps in motion, Its so bad the backgrounds have the judder vibration from bluray movies lol.

[_I_]

Originally posted by Rod:

Originally posted by _I_:

kind aexplains it, luigis mansion was a gamecube game, made to run at 480i
so if its emulating the gamecbue, it would be drawing alternating +/- frames updating half the image at a time
(even and odd lines at 60fps, but an entire frame even+odd at 30fps)

Nah its the third one and a native Switch game. Its simply 30fps in motion, Its so bad the backgrounds have the judder vibration from bluray movies lol.

how interlacing works
edit: this explains better when i is displayed on new displays
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKMWjRlIvrY

[PopinFRESH]

Originally posted by _I_:

Originally posted by Rod:

Nah its the third one and a native Switch game. Its simply 30fps in motion, Its so bad the backgrounds have the judder vibration from bluray movies lol.

how interlacing works
edit: this explains better when i is displayed on new displays
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKMWjRlIvrY

They aren't talking about the game cube first game. They are talking about Luigi's Mansion 3 on Nintendo Switch. It's not interlaced. It is just 720p @ 30fps hand held, and 1080p @ 30fps when docked to a TV.

EDIT: And for clarity, it barely maintains 30fps and has fairly significant frame pacing issues in handheld mode so it stutters pretty badly.

[_I_]

its using 60i not 30p, showing even and odd frames mixed, which is why it looks blocky/shaky

[PopinFRESH]

Originally posted by _I_:

its using 60i not 30p, showing even and odd frames mixed, which is why it looks blocky/shaky

no it's not. It is 720p30 and the stuttering is because it struggles to maintain 30fps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBrDxX-X5iQ&t=23s

^ You can see the frame time inconsistency in this.

You can also get it to fairly stable 60fps if you mod the game if you have a hacked switch and/or running it with a rom hack via emulation on Yuzu by dropping the resolution down to 432p60 in handheld or 720p60 in docked.

[_I_]

please say the correct name of the game, thats luigis mansion 3, designed to run on the switch, not the orig ported

[PopinFRESH]

Originally posted by _I_:

please say the correct name of the game, thats luigis mansion 3, designed to run on the switch, not the orig ported

So you mean like...

Originally posted by Rod:

...Nah its the third one and a native Switch game....

Originally posted by PopinFRESH:

...They are talking about Luigi's Mansion 3 on Nintendo Switch. It's not interlaced. It is just 720p @ 30fps hand held, and 1080p @ 30fps when docked to a TV....

[Rod]

Originally posted by _I_:

please say the correct name of the game, thats luigis mansion 3, designed to run on the switch, not the orig ported

Well i did say Switch and Luigis Mansion 3 is the only one on the Switch. Sadly for me i have to give Zelda Xenoblade and Luigi a miss for now but no doubt will be good remasters in future.

1080p+ 60fps is when these games become good and thus i call them early access. I think Nintendo know what they are doing too with double buffered games