What is the point in very high frame rates?

[mc5686]

This is out of pure curiosity:
I have seen very often hardware boasting 100+ FPS on "heavy" games.
OTOH AFAIK our eyes are incapable to appreciate more than ~30 FPS, at that rate even flickering is not appreciable.
Is there any real reason to to try to push higher than ~50/60 FPS?
What am I missing?

[Rod]

Yeah you might want to stop spreading false statements about 30fps. I can see the difference in 240 bs 280. You must be blind seriously or have no concept of sample and hold blur.


Sample and hold legit destroys the silly post.

[🦜Cloud Boy🦜]

first of, it is wrong that our eyes can see only 30 fps.
I don't know you tried it or not, 60 fps feels lot more smooth than 30 fps, same apply to 60 vs 120 fps. Obviously you need a high refresh rate monitor for it.

After playing at 60 fps, you won't able to tolerate 30 fps gaming. Same apply to 60 vs 120 fps.

[Supafly]

Think of it this way. more frame = you see more data and for competitive games you see the latest frame. If you only get 60 frames you see 1/2 ass much as someone at 120. Plus the person at 120 is always 1 frame ahead of a person with 60 fps. that extra frame may have the enemy changing direction, ducking or anything else. At 60 you'd miss it but at 120+ you see it.

We don't see frames. If you had a 120+hz display you'd see and feel the difference just moving the mouse cursor over the desktop compared to 60hz. Same thing with games and fps.

[Overseer]

What you are missing is more frames. It's as simple as that.
And human eyes don't see in frames per second.

[Wichtelman]

https://i.imgur.com/wA8G9d7.png

[_I_]

eyes dont see in frames or pixels
your brain does alot of image processing that you cannot control

image vibration?
are you talking about crt when the refresh rate was very close to the outlet freq? where the image would shake on the display due to emi, changing the refresh rate between ~59.94 and 60hz would often fix it

30hz (29.97) is often interlaced, 1080i, 720i, 480i 240i etc.. where there is a + and - frame each containing half of the horizontal lines of the display, and alternating updates

but all of that is not fps, its the display refresh rate


high fps only really helps if if the display has a high refresh rate
10,000fps on a 60hz display is pointless, either each displayed frame will only contain a few pixels of each drawn frame, or with vsync only one complete drawn frame will be displayed for each display refresh

but if the display is over 120hz, make sure it supports gsync/freesync, so when the cpu/gpu are limiting fps, the display will lower its refresh rate to match the gpus drawing rate

[Rod]

_I_ eredeti hozzászólása:

eyes dont see in frames or pixels
your brain does alot of image processing that you cannot control

image vibration?
are you talking about crt when the refresh rate was very close to the outlet freq? where the image would shake on the display due to emi, changing the refresh rate between ~59.94 and 60hz would often fix it

30hz (29.97) is often interlaced, 1080i, 720i, 480i 240i etc.. where there is a + and - frame each containing half of the horizontal lines of the display, and alternating updates

but all of that is not fps, its the display refresh rate


high fps only really helps if if the display has a high refresh rate
10,000fps on a 60hz display is pointless, either each displayed frame will only contain a few pixels of each drawn frame, or with vsync only one complete drawn frame will be displayed for each display refresh

but if the display is over 120hz, make sure it supports gsync/freesync, so when the cpu/gpu are limiting fps, the display will lower its refresh rate to match the gpus drawing rate

The background in Luigis Mansion vibrates on the Switch OLED. I find it unplayable its so distracting. Its basic image quality. Zelda BOTW same problems not so much just feels awful.


You only see this on 30fps every 60fps game on the oled plays great i got no issues at all until someone starts to mess with the framerate and they change it to dynamic or 30.

[wesnef]

Rod eredeti hozzászólása:

I can see the difference in 240 vs 280. You must be blind seriously or have no concept of sample and hold blur..

I can kind of understand 30 vs 60 vs 144. Maybe.
But I don't see the point in 240+.


But yeah, I am kinda blind - you don't want to know my prescription. :D I upgraded my GPU a couple months ago, tried Tiny Tina's Wonderlands with higher framerate. Only difference I could tell between 60 and 144 was that my GPU fans were louder. So I turned it back to 60..

And yeah, this is the first time I've heard the phrase "sample and hold blur".

[Rod]

wesnef eredeti hozzászólása:

Rod eredeti hozzászólása:

I can see the difference in 240 vs 280. You must be blind seriously or have no concept of sample and hold blur..

I can kind of understand 30 vs 60 vs 144. Maybe.
But I don't see the point in 240+.


But yeah, I am kinda blind - you don't want to know my prescription. :D I upgraded my GPU a couple months ago, tried Tiny Tina's Wonderlands with higher framerate. Only difference I could tell between 60 and 144 was that my GPU fans were louder. So I turned it back to 60..

And yeah, this is the first time I've heard the phrase "sample and hold blur".

Its easy, I owed crts when very young and own 3 OLEDS so for me its easier to spot mostly i am speaking about motion blur. Thats what sample and hold is and the reason it exists.I want it gone and the 240hz IPS i bought felt amazing a dream come true but i still saw some blur when i fast move my mouse the clarity on say the UI or ingame neons signs becomes unreadable. As soon as i overclocked the monitor by 40hz to 280hz theres a drastic improvement. Now i cam read the letters in motion on objects and the blur is mostly gone.


You can look for that easy enough to spot it, You can feel it as well but going in game and peeping at objects no... you wont notice anything. Also mouse feel better the higher you go.


Regardleas of if you can see it, I consider it better for eye health also not to stress the eye. So its much easier for the eye to see in higher resolutions and to interpret data from higher framerates.

[Reaper]

People can see up to 60 fps. At 120+ fps the motion will be so smooth that you might not even be able to tell the difference some people can. For me I can just barely see the difference between 60 and 120.

[Andrius227]

Reaper eredeti hozzászólása:

People can see up to 60 fps. At 120+ fps the motion will be so smooth that you might not even be able to tell the difference some people can. For me I can just barely see the difference between 60 and 120.

I used to think that 60fps is plenty. Then i got to experience 144hz and now 60fps feels awful. Although i am not too crazy about 144hz. I often drop down to 100 or 85hz to save power, especially during summer. Doesnt make much difference to me as long as its >60hz.

[_I_]

Rod eredeti hozzászólása:

The background in Luigis Mansion vibrates on the Switch OLED. I find it unplayable its so distracting. Its basic image quality. Zelda BOTW same problems not so much just feels awful.


You only see this on 30fps every 60fps game on the oled plays great i got no issues at all until someone starts to mess with the framerate and they change it to dynamic or 30.

kind aexplains it, luigis mansion was a gamecube game, made to run at 480i
so if its emulating the gamecbue, it would be drawing alternating +/- frames updating half the image at a time
(even and odd lines at 60fps, but an entire frame even+odd at 30fps)

[PopinFRESH]

mc5686 eredeti hozzászólása:

This is out of pure curiosity:
I have seen very often hardware boasting 100+ FPS on "heavy" games.
OTOH AFAIK our eyes are incapable to appreciate more than ~30 FPS, at that rate even flickering is not appreciable.
Is there any real reason to to try to push higher than ~50/60 FPS?
What am I missing?

You are just misinformed. Here is a video that should show you what you're missing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX31kZbAXsA

[Illusion of Progress]

_I_ eredeti hozzászólása:

image vibration?
are you talking about crt when the refresh rate was very close to the outlet freq? where the image would shake on the display due to emi, changing the refresh rate between ~59.94 and 60hz would often fix it

I remember back when I lived at home with my parents, my CRT would do that if the vacuum cleaner was being run in one of the houses we lived in. I always wondered why, even if I knew it was some sort of electrical thing.

I wouldn't have been running it at 60 Hz though. It would have been at least 75 Hz or maybe 85 Hz.

[PopinFRESH]

Illusion of Progress eredeti hozzászólása:

_I_ eredeti hozzászólása:

image vibration?
are you talking about crt when the refresh rate was very close to the outlet freq? where the image would shake on the display due to emi, changing the refresh rate between ~59.94 and 60hz would often fix it

I remember back when I lived at home with my parents, my CRT would do that if the vacuum cleaner was being run in one of the houses we lived in. I always wondered why, even if I knew it was some sort of electrical thing.

I wouldn't have been running it at 60 Hz though. It would have been at least 75 Hz or maybe 85 Hz.

Your AC power is 60Hz, regardless of the displays frequency. The vacuum motor was just causing a non-uniform load on the power lines which results in slight ripples in the power which impacted the stability of the power going to the electron gun in your CRT.