Windows 7 support ends?? wtf??

[Dutchgamer1982]

My gaming pc still runs windows 7.. this was a willfull chooise.. as windows 10 does not support many of the games I like to run.

I just read steam will stop supporting windows 7 Big red banner..
what exactly does that mean?

-can I still install/play my games just not recieve any updates??
-can I still reinstal the last working version of steam for windows 7 after this date?
-can I still install/reinstal my games under windows 7 after this date?
-can I still play my library under windows 7 after this date?

**installing every game in my library and play in offline mode only.. is ofcourse possible..
would likely need to buy a much larger m.2 for that though+an external drive for a backup.
-Or does even the offline launcher no longer work after this date?

Is this a FORCED update to windows 10?? rendering twothirds of my games unplayable?
**upgrading to windows 11 is out of the question, hardware not new enough
**installing my entire library will be very costly.

WTF steam WTF..

please give me more info..

-can I somehow like I still use windows 7.. keep using my games on steam under windows 7 after the deadline on this scary red banner hits?

[Euphytose]

Have you ever tested Windows 7 without aero? I highly doubt it.

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

Komarimaru a écrit :

Curiously, how are you testing said input lag?

^This, either going off what find on google search with no real testing, or just placebo into believeing windows 10 is such horror.


Also delay input can depend on the game more than OS, hence why you play games you see input added only by ~20+ MS when in windows mode, compare to full screen, and you can see this across all testing, not even Windows 7 is exempt from this even if you turn off aero.

Yes Vsync can cause input lag ~100+ which is more than you think, the range of input can also vary from game to game how well done the game was handle, as well if forcing your own vsync onto game, or not.

But if ask what this means to avg joe, or most gamers, it means little to nothing as they either don't care, or don't even notice it, for those that looking to be top pro competitive, you wouldn't look towatds playing game in windows mode to begin with, as you will always play full screen, and have vsync off, as well take into account any other things that cause input lag such as mouse & keyboard, apps running, and anything else.

AFAIK Windows 10 is not a problem, so if it really was a problem for pro competitive players you would've heard of this by now as it been almost 10 years since it release....

[Euphytose]

You didn't read everything Dr. I'll say it again: Pro players never run their games in windowed, so the input lag isn't present. It's ONLY a problem with borderless games.

Windows 7 IS exempt from input lag in borderless.

So I was right. You guys never tested Windows 7 without aero to see how instantaneous everything is.

I'll give you the script I use, just in case your curiosity gets so high you reinstall the OS just to test it, although I sincerely doubt it lol.

@echo off
sc interrogate uxsms | find "1062"
if %errorlevel%==0 goto :sc_start
sc stop uxsms
exit

:sc_start
sc start uxsms
exit

Edit: If you run this on Windows 10, your screen will flash briefly. Because dwm.exe cannot be turned off here.

[Komarimaru]

Euphytose a écrit :

Have you ever tested Windows 7 without aero? I highly doubt it.

I despised Aero on Windows 7 and never used it. Ever.
So for its entire tenure of being an operating system that was supported. I never used it on Vista ever either. And sure as hell don't use the fancy effects on 10 either.

[Euphytose]

Komarimaru a écrit :

Euphytose a écrit :

Have you ever tested Windows 7 without aero? I highly doubt it.

I despised Aero on Windows 7 and never used it. Ever.
So for its entire tenure of being an operating system that was supported. I never used it on Vista ever either. And sure as hell don't use the fancy effects on 10 either.

That's the issue you see. Whether you like the fancy effects on 10 or not, you don't have a choice in whether the service is running.

Edit: Turn down your screen to 60hz and test again, I'm pretty sure you'll find your games completely unplayable in borderless.

[Komarimaru]

Euphytose a écrit :

You didn't read everything Dr. I'll say it again: Pro players never run their games in windowed, so the input lag isn't present. It's ONLY a problem with borderless games.

Windows 7 IS exempt from input lag in borderless.

So I was right. You guys never tested Windows 7 without aero to see how instantaneous everything is.

I'll give you the script I use, just in case your curiosity gets so high you reinstall the OS just to test it, although I sincerely doubt it lol.

@echo off
sc interrogate uxsms | find "1062"
if %errorlevel%==0 goto :sc_start
sc stop uxsms
exit

:sc_start
sc start uxsms
exit

You obviously have no idea how Borderless works in Windows 10 now.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/direct3ddxgi/images/blt-flip-mode-present.png

There's a pretty graphic for you. And that script does nothing. It just disables Aero in Windows 7, it's not for latency.

[Euphytose]

Komarimaru a écrit :

Euphytose a écrit :

You didn't read everything Dr. I'll say it again: Pro players never run their games in windowed, so the input lag isn't present. It's ONLY a problem with borderless games.

Windows 7 IS exempt from input lag in borderless.

So I was right. You guys never tested Windows 7 without aero to see how instantaneous everything is.

I'll give you the script I use, just in case your curiosity gets so high you reinstall the OS just to test it, although I sincerely doubt it lol.

You obviously have no idea how Borderless works in Windows 10 now.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/direct3ddxgi/images/blt-flip-mode-present.png

There's a pretty graphic for you. And that script does nothing. It just disables Aero in Windows 7, it's not for latency.

Again, are you joking? Disabling aero IS what removes the latency on 7. Lol man, are you serious?

You get tearing on your desktop if you use that script. Of course for watching movies it's really bad, but for gaming it isn't.

Edit: When was this thing added?

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

Euphytose a écrit :

You didn't read everything Dr. I'll say it again: Pro players never run their games in windowed, so the input lag isn't present. It's ONLY a problem with borderless games.

Windows 7 IS exempt from input lag in borderless.

So I was right. You guys never tested Windows 7 without aero to see how instantaneous everything is.

I'll give you the script I use, just in case your curiosity gets so high you reinstall the OS just to test it, although I sincerely doubt it lol.

@echo off
sc interrogate uxsms | find "1062"
if %errorlevel%==0 goto :sc_start
sc stop uxsms
exit

:sc_start
sc start uxsms
exit

Honey you're not getting 0 MS on Windows 7 just to be clear, yes it's lower, but not enough to actual make a difference in gaming.

[Euphytose]

Dr.Shadowds 🐉 a écrit :

Euphytose a écrit :

You didn't read everything Dr. I'll say it again: Pro players never run their games in windowed, so the input lag isn't present. It's ONLY a problem with borderless games.

Windows 7 IS exempt from input lag in borderless.

So I was right. You guys never tested Windows 7 without aero to see how instantaneous everything is.

I'll give you the script I use, just in case your curiosity gets so high you reinstall the OS just to test it, although I sincerely doubt it lol.

Honey you're not getting 0 MS on Windows 7 just to be clear, yes it's lower, but not enough to actual make a difference in gaming.

Yes, it makes a big difference. That's the difference between you and me I guess. The games respond much quicker with this. In borderless ONLY. In fullscreen it makes no difference.

I mean, honey, you said it yourself, v-sync adds a significant amount of input lag.

Guess what dwm.exe adds to your desktop? You got it, v-sync.

[Komarimaru]

Euphytose a écrit :

Dr.Shadowds 🐉 a écrit :

Honey you're not getting 0 MS on Windows 7 just to be clear, yes it's lower, but not enough to actual make a difference in gaming.

Yes, it makes a big difference. That's the difference between you and me I guess. The games respond much quicker with this. In borderless ONLY. In fullscreen it makes no difference.

Exclusive fullscreen, will always perform better. Borderless in Windows 10, is the same as Fullscreen is in 7. That's what you don't understand.

And you really think pros are using Windows 7 still? I've yet to see any of them using Windows 7 at any tournaments for many years now.

[Euphytose]

Komarimaru a écrit :

Euphytose a écrit :

Yes, it makes a big difference. That's the difference between you and me I guess. The games respond much quicker with this. In borderless ONLY. In fullscreen it makes no difference.

Exclusive fullscreen, will always perform better. Borderless in Windows 10, is the same as Fullscreen is in 7. That's what you don't understand.

And you really think pros are using Windows 7 still? I've yet to see any of them using Windows 7 at any tournaments for many years now.

Where did I say pros use 7 lol? I said they never run their games in borderless, and that's true.

You didn't answer me. When was the flip thingy added? I did my tests in May of 2020.

If something changed since then, then good. If nothing changed, then you're wrong.

Borderless in 10 is not the same as fullscreen in 7 and never will be until they get rid of the v-sync that's on the desktop rendering.

[Komarimaru]

Euphytose a écrit :

Komarimaru a écrit :

Exclusive fullscreen, will always perform better. Borderless in Windows 10, is the same as Fullscreen is in 7. That's what you don't understand.

And you really think pros are using Windows 7 still? I've yet to see any of them using Windows 7 at any tournaments for many years now.

Where did I say pros use 7 lol? I said they never run their games in borderless, and that's true.

You didn't answer me. When was the flip thingy added? I did my tests in May of 2020.

If something changed since then, then good. If nothing changed, then you're wrong.

Borderless in 10 is not the same as fullscreen in 7 and never will be until they get rid of the v-sync that's on the desktop rendering.

Did you not see the image I posted? No vsync is applied in Borderless mode, since no such thing as fullscreen in Windows 10. Fullscreen, is borderless.

What's more funny, is you're comparing a laptop and a desktop, one with 7 and one with 10. Talk about not knowing how to do a test.

[Euphytose]

Then why is there a significant difference for games when I set them to exclusive fullscreen vs borderless in Windows 10?

[Komarimaru]

Euphytose a écrit :

Then why is there a significant difference for games when I set them to exclusive fullscreen vs borderless in Windows 10?

I'm guessing you disabled Full Screen Optimization then. Since If you don't, the performance should be the same.

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/demystifying-full-screen-optimizations/

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

Euphytose a écrit :

Dr.Shadowds 🐉 a écrit :

Honey you're not getting 0 MS on Windows 7 just to be clear, yes it's lower, but not enough to actual make a difference in gaming.

Yes, it makes a big difference. That's the difference between you and me I guess. The games respond much quicker with this. In borderless ONLY. In fullscreen it makes no difference.

You do understand 1ms = 1000th of a second right? It's not even close to 100ms what going on so it pretty not noticeable unless you're focus on it.

The other thing is that DWM is worse on W7, than is W10 AFAIK, but again not whole lot of testing in that area for years due to the fact it's not big of a problem people try to make it out to be on Windows 10. So if you want to mitigate the problem you can use higher refresh rate monitor, or if you're really that fixed on wanting best possible lowest MS you can just use linux. For gaming wise, if you're using windows to compare 7 to 10 it's just placebo at full screen seeing you agree to that, we both understand it doesn't matter, and when in windows mode it doesn't add a whole lot one may make it out to be.

For DXGI flip model you can look into that if you want.

Komarimaru a écrit :

Euphytose a écrit :

Then why is there a significant difference for games when I set them to exclusive fullscreen vs borderless in Windows 10?

I'm guessing you disabled Full Screen Optimization then. Since If you don't, the performance should be the same.

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/demystifying-full-screen-optimizations/

^This link is worth looking into just saying.