ALLOW WIN 7 USERS TO KEEP USING STEAM

[gyrotim]

How about you give a little control to your users instead of forcing stupid updates onto them? I haven't gotten a single virus on windows 7 since they stopped supporting it so don't give the "security update" excuse you always do. The only reason I used a dual-boot system for Windows 10 was to play Forza Horizon 4 which is a property of Microsoft. Or at the VERY LEAST allow the user to use older versions of steam! I know it sounds CRAZY that you'd allow the user to do such an awful thing but trust me, it'd be really good!

[r.linder]

Postat inițial de Cxrlin:

Rip my laptop then

Linux.

[GT]

Postat inițial de PopinFRESH:

That is the crux of it. The OS doesn't support modern security technologies.

I'm not aware of any security-impacting technology that is not available on Windows 7.
The only one that comes to my mind would be TLS 1.2, whose support will reach far into the future.
In case it doesn't and it is deemed unsafe further down the road, I'd be annoyed as well, but I'd understand if Valve would seize support for this. In this case it would be up to me to figure out a way to get compliant with those necessary security updates; I managed to get an unsupported SSD to run, I will figure this out too..

The only impacts that this update will have and that I am aware of, are solely cosmetic. Nobody needs electron; Electron is a horrible invention that should have never seen the light of day. It is a ressource hugger and frequently breaks things in other apps.

So I fail to see where we want special treatment still. Quite the opposite; We want nothing of Valve, but the current status quo. You are the ones getting special treatment; You get new features, new updates, full support etc..


Regarding the promise: I thought it was obvious that it was hyperbolic.

[PopinFRESH]

Postat inițial de GT:

....
I'm not aware of any security-impacting technology that is not available on Windows 7.
The only one that comes to my mind would be TLS 1.2, whose support will reach far into the future...

First, just because TLS 1.2 is available on Windows 7 doesn't mean it has all of the available cipher suites. Second, just because other things support TLS 1.2 doesn't mean Valve will and/or Valve doesn't want to implement TLS 1.3 for their services. Secondly, there are several new features in new versions of Chromium such as private state tokens, sandboxing of the network services for the browser elements, etc. that Valve may want to leverage.

You essentially have 3 options

1) Download, install, and launch any game you want to function prior to the deadline. Disable steam client Updates prior to the deadline. Set Steam in offline mode and play your installed games (assuming the game doesn't require updates and the game itself doesn't end support for Windows 7).

2) Upgrade to Windows 10 or 11 and continue using Steam normally

3) Switch to a supported version of Linux with Steam and Proton and continue using Steam normally with most games that you'd be talking about for "Muh windows 7". Most issues with this route would be 3rd party DRM and/or kernel level anti-cheat systems like Easy Anti-Cheat, which already don't support Windows 7.

EDIT:

Ok 4 options. Be super stubborn and masochistic so do none of those things and not play any games from Steam.

[GT]

Postat inițial de PopinFRESH:

[...]

I personally will go with d) All of the above. I will try to freeze the state on Win 7 to the best of my abilities and I will try to make the switch to Linux, while keeping a separate disc with that disgusting bloatware trojan some people call Windows 10/11 for "emergencies".

However I will definitely keep this behaviour in mind and make my future purchasing decisions accordingly. If you think this behaviour is acceptable, you have been brainwashed by this whole "Software as a service" cancer that is spreading like wildfire.


I wonder how long it will be until these discussions will be had for fridges and microwaves. "What are you complaining about? Just get the new router and make the required updates to your fridge. Nobody is in breach of the contract – you can still continue to use your fridge." "It's just a one-time payment of 80 bucks for the new router; Don't be so stubborn"


There are several reasons why a forced "upgrade" (which is actually a massive downgrade unless you get a hand on the LTSC version) are not so simple:

* My laptop refuses to run Linux when it is booted from disc and not usb stick (no idea why; I will not put more effort into this because Win 7 runs PERFECTLY fine)
* I have a game that barely runs on Windows 7 anymore but I still like to play
* For literally ANYTHING else aside from software I wouldn't even need to have this discussion because it is gоddаmnіt COMMON SENSE that you can use a product for as long as you wish after purchase and the manufacturer can not make changes to YOUR product AFTER purchase WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT [/rant]

[GfaRm]

Postat inițial de GT:

Postat inițial de TRethehedgehog:

You do know that not every piece of software will last forever

I can still go, pick up a few Floppy discs and install DOS 3.11 on a PC if I wanted to.

When you used steam or windows, you acknowledged an agreement saying that the software is not really yours, and will have an end of life.

When I agreed to Steam's ToS I ALSO was assured that in the event of Steam not being available to me, for example in the event of Valve going bankrupt, I would be offered the possibility to download all my digital possessions and be able to use them without Steam:

https://i.imgur.com/4sa1Ln6.jpg

This promise is (at least partially) broken by artificially completely excluding Win 7.

Thank you for this screenshot, I will include it in my petition I am preparing for E.U. Commissioner Margrethe Vestager and her team. I am sure the petition will be accepted, as I have had the opportunity to contact her team once before.
I'm curious to see what they will do this time about Steam's anti-consumer actions. They forced Apple to do some pro-consumer things in Europe so I'm sure if they only want to, they will also do something about Steam.

Steam must comply with European law, since they sell and offer their services here.
They sold me game licenses for Windows 7 and that means those games should work now and in the future on Windows 7 just like my old games on CDs still work on one of my gaming PCs running Windows XP. Period.

[gyrotim]

Postat inițial de GfaRm:

Postat inițial de GT:

I can still go, pick up a few Floppy discs and install DOS 3.11 on a PC if I wanted to.



When I agreed to Steam's ToS I ALSO was assured that in the event of Steam not being available to me, for example in the event of Valve going bankrupt, I would be offered the possibility to download all my digital possessions and be able to use them without Steam:

https://i.imgur.com/4sa1Ln6.jpg

This promise is (at least partially) broken by artificially completely excluding Win 7.

Thank you for this screenshot, I will include it in my petition I am preparing for E.U. Commissioner Margrethe Vestager and her team. I am sure the petition will be accepted, as I have had the opportunity to contact her team once before.
I'm curious to see what they will do this time about Steam's anti-consumer actions. They forced Apple to do some pro-consumer things in Europe so I'm sure if they only want to, they will also do something about Steam.

Steam must comply with European law, since they sell and offer their services here.
They sold me game licenses for Windows 7 and that means those games should work now and in the future on Windows 7 just like my old games on CDs still work on one of my gaming PCs running Windows XP. Period.

I agree that Win 7 users (Us) should be allowed to keep playing the older games we've bought on Steam, but newer features aren't gonna be available and screw it, i'm fine with that for the time being.

[PopinFRESH]

Postat inițial de GfaRm:

...
Steam must comply with European law, since they sell and offer their services here.
They sold me game licenses for Windows 7 and that means those games should work now and in the future on Windows 7 just like my old games on CDs still work on one of my gaming PCs running Windows XP. Period.

No they sold you game licenses for games; and you also agreed that the content and services may require updating and the system requirements to use the content and services may change over time.

Postat inițial de Steam Subscriber Agreement:

...
2. LICENSES ⏶

A. General Content and Services License

Steam and your Subscription(s) require the download and installation of Content and Services onto your computer. Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a non-exclusive license and right, to use the Content and Services for your personal, non-commercial use (except where commercial use is expressly allowed herein or in the applicable Subscription Terms). This license ends upon termination of (a) this Agreement or (b) a Subscription that includes the license. The Content and Services are licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Content and Services. To make use of the Content and Services, you must have a Steam Account and you may be required to be running the Steam client and maintaining a connection to the Internet.

For reasons that include, without limitation, system security, stability, and multiplayer interoperability, Valve may need to automatically update, pre-load, create new versions of or otherwise enhance the Content and Services and accordingly, the system requirements to use the Content and Services may change over time.

You consent to such automatic updating. You understand that this Agreement (including applicable Subscription Terms) does not entitle you to future updates (unless to the extent required by applicable law), new versions or other enhancements of the Content and Services associated with a particular Subscription, although Valve may choose to provide such updates, etc. in its sole discretion.
...

EDIT:
. PERIOD

[GfaRm]

Postat inițial de PopinFRESH:

Postat inițial de GfaRm:

...
Steam must comply with European law, since they sell and offer their services here.
They sold me game licenses for Windows 7 and that means those games should work now and in the future on Windows 7 just like my old games on CDs still work on one of my gaming PCs running Windows XP. Period.

No they sold you game licenses for games; and you also agreed that the content and services may require updating and the system requirements to use the content and services may change over time.

Postat inițial de Steam Subscriber Agreement:

...
2. LICENSES ⏶

A. General Content and Services License

Steam and your Subscription(s) require the download and installation of Content and Services onto your computer. Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a non-exclusive license and right, to use the Content and Services for your personal, non-commercial use (except where commercial use is expressly allowed herein or in the applicable Subscription Terms). This license ends upon termination of (a) this Agreement or (b) a Subscription that includes the license. The Content and Services are licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Content and Services. To make use of the Content and Services, you must have a Steam Account and you may be required to be running the Steam client and maintaining a connection to the Internet.

For reasons that include, without limitation, system security, stability, and multiplayer interoperability, Valve may need to automatically update, pre-load, create new versions of or otherwise enhance the Content and Services and accordingly, the system requirements to use the Content and Services may change over time.

You consent to such automatic updating. You understand that this Agreement (including applicable Subscription Terms) does not entitle you to future updates (unless to the extent required by applicable law), new versions or other enhancements of the Content and Services associated with a particular Subscription, although Valve may choose to provide such updates, etc. in its sole discretion.
...

EDIT:
. PERIOD

This is something that I hope and believe will be judged by E.U law professionals. The rules and regulations of a company (of any kind) cannot stand above the laws of the E.U, at least here in E.U. And past examples shows that the lawyers of big corpo invent for themselves laws and regulations that suit them and their employers and do not necessarily comply with regulations that protect consumers. We'll see...
BTW, out of curiosity, I'll check what terms of use are attached to my 2004 Half Life 2 game (I have it on disc), which could only be run through the original Steam client. Thanks for the hint!

[PopinFRESH]

Postat inițial de GfaRm:

Postat inițial de PopinFRESH:

No they sold you game licenses for games; and you also agreed that the content and services may require updating and the system requirements to use the content and services may change over time.



EDIT:
. PERIOD

This is something that I hope and believe will be judged by E.U law professionals. The rules and regulations of a company (of any kind) cannot stand above the laws of the E.U, here in E.U. And past examples shows that the lawyers of big corpo invent for themselves laws and regulations that suit them and their employers and do not necessarily comply with regulations that protect consumers. We'll see...
BTW, out of curiosity, I'll check what terms of use are attached to my 2003 Half Life 2 game (I have it on disc), which could only be run through the original Steam client. Thanks for the hint!

So you haven't made a purchase on Steam since Half-Lifef 2? Also Half-Life 2 didn't come out in 2003, it came out November 13, 2004. So I'd love to see your "2003 terms of use" from Half-Life 2.

[r.linder]

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/13e1vft/psa_windows_7_is_not_safe_youre_not_cool_for/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1

[gyrotim]

Postat inițial de 尺．し工几句ヨ尺:

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/13e1vft/psa_windows_7_is_not_safe_youre_not_cool_for/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1

I don't care if I'm "cool" or not for using Win 7. No virus in over 6 years now even since they stopped support.

[GfaRm]

Postat inițial de PopinFRESH:

Postat inițial de GfaRm:

This is something that I hope and believe will be judged by E.U law professionals. The rules and regulations of a company (of any kind) cannot stand above the laws of the E.U, here in E.U. And past examples shows that the lawyers of big corpo invent for themselves laws and regulations that suit them and their employers and do not necessarily comply with regulations that protect consumers. We'll see...
BTW, out of curiosity, I'll check what terms of use are attached to my 2003 Half Life 2 game (I have it on disc), which could only be run through the original Steam client. Thanks for the hint!

So you haven't made a purchase on Steam since Half-Lifef 2? Also Half-Life 2 didn't come out in 2003, it came out November 13, 2004. So I'd love to see your "2003 terms of use" from Half-Life 2.

I already edited my original post, you were faster, but I don't care, these are details without any significance
BTW, I have 107 games purchased on Steam, all can be run on Widnows 7...

[PopinFRESH]

Postat inițial de 尺．し工几句ヨ尺:

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/13e1vft/psa_windows_7_is_not_safe_youre_not_cool_for/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1

Bro they know better than you my guy. They are like the author of one of the top comments on that page...

Listen, I wrap my ethernet cord in a condom it's fine.

It's fine.

[r.linder]

Postat inițial de PopinFRESH:

Postat inițial de 尺．し工几句ヨ尺:

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/13e1vft/psa_windows_7_is_not_safe_youre_not_cool_for/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1

Bro they know better than you my guy. They are like the author of one of the top comments on that page...

Listen, I wrap my ethernet cord in a condom it's fine.

It's fine.

What’s with the passive aggressive response? Just sharing a Reddit post that has links to exploits affecting 7, and I use Linux.

[PopinFRESH]

Postat inițial de GfaRm:

...
BTW, I have 107 games purchased on Steam, all can be run on Widnows 7...

Cool story hanz. I have 1889 games purchased on Steam and have no issues running them on Windows 11; Other than the ones that used dead 3rd party DRM and/or live services that died like Firefall.

Do you have a specific example in that 107 game library flex that will not run on Windows 11?