Windows 7 support has ended

[Bobalazs]

Google chrome will be supported until end of this year, and that is good news for windows 7 users, and possibly is hope for extended steam support.

[Thermal Lance]

Yeah, I wont skip the requirement. Im fine with Linux. Don't want microsoft to update something that might not be compatible with my hardware since they will not even consider its existance going forward.

[Komarimaru]

引用自 MonkehMaster：

引用自 Komarimaru：

Last I checked, Windows 7 struggles on AMD 3000 Ryzen - 7000. Can't properly run 12000-13000 series Intel while struggling on Ampere and Higher GPU's. Struggles on USB 3.1+ etc etc. It just lacks the scheduler capability and microcode to run them, it's just that old.

And no, I don't count the half-wack mods people try and put into Windows 7 to count about 70% of the functionality of the hardware.

Let alone anything DX12 for DX 11.3+, just doesn't support it, game developers have to bend over backwards to try and make it work, why the ones who used to support it are dropping it now, like CP 2077 as just one example. Though, only 3 DX12 games ever worked on Windows 7, zero 11.3 games.

aside from microsoft/xbox studios games which use xbox apps and a random few games that left out compatibility libraries or dll's (and you can get them running on win 7 easily), i havent seen any dx 11 games i could not run on win 7, let alone any even bothering to say anything about using higher than dx 11.0, i would like to know which ones so i can check them out.

win 7 can also run 11.2 and 11.3 assuming said person can build and/or install the proper sdk to support it, in general all they need is specific files, will it run perfectly? not likely unless the person in question knows what they are doing.

also making a small dx 12 wrapper is hardly "bending over backwards to try and make it work", you are being foolish.

fyi, just because a game doest "support" win 7 anymore doesnt mean the game doesnt run on win 7 and also no one cares about cyberflop, that game is garbage.

anywho, i have already played this game with you, aside from telling me which games use anything higher than dx 11.0, i dont care to hear anything else.

Incorrect as always and as last time. A DX12 "Wrapper" is more than that for Windows 7. And they are fully dropping support for 7, meaning it will not run on 7, period. It's a pain to code into the software and why only 3 games ever attempted it.

And I see you didn't address your main lie that I quoated, that Windows 7 can use the newest hardware. Got any evidence of that? Since last I checked, again... Windows 7 doesn't have drivers for the newest hardware, doesn't have the mcirocode, etc etc.

I see you conveniently left it out to rant instead on something you don't understand, making you look worse. Sooo... Let's see this newest hardware working on Windows 7 that doesn't require various hacks and modifications, and even then you don't get full hardware support on a Dead Operating System.

[Aretak]

引用自 Komarimaru：

And I see you didn't address your main lie that I quoated, that Windows 7 can use the newest hardware. Got any evidence of that? Since last I checked, again... Windows 7 doesn't have drivers for the newest hardware, doesn't have the mcirocode, etc etc.

I know you'll likely just say it doesn't count and it has to be THE very latest hardware released in the past six months or something, but it's certainly possible to have very modern, very powerful hardware running Windows 7 just fine. For example, here[abload.de] is my X570-based Ryzen setup running Windows 7. All hardware working just fine as you can see, with drivers available for everything.

I only have a 5800X, but you could use a 5800X3D instead and get near-top tier gaming performance, or a 5950X for other things. I also only have an RTX 3070, but the 3090 Ti uses the same driver and also works on Windows 7. Nvidia actually just released a new Windows 7 driver for those cards back in December, and have committed to supporting them until September 2024. So it's certainly not like you're hurting for amazing hardware to run Windows 7, and both AM4 and RTX 3000 were the newest thing from each company until a few months ago.

DirectX 12 is also not too much of an issue because DXVK and VKD3D also work on Windows 7. Microsoft's official implementation of DX12 on Windows 7 wasn't widely used, but it's also unnecessary. Just about any game will work through those free and open source wrappers, and as anybody who games on Linux knows, they're pretty amazing.

To be clear, I don't use Windows 7 as my daily driver. Setting it up on this machine was just a bit of fun. To see what's possible. But I can understand why people do. I still would myself were it not for the impending forced software apocalypse. Windows 10 and 11 suck.

[Thermal Lance]

Yeah, but Vulkan is not some magic "do-it-all" fix. There is a cost in just using it. So, even if you make it work you are still losing some of just by using DXVK. But, I guess if you have a computer that is exceptionally powerful, you might not care about the loss.

[Komarimaru]

引用自 Aretak：

引用自 Komarimaru：

And I see you didn't address your main lie that I quoated, that Windows 7 can use the newest hardware. Got any evidence of that? Since last I checked, again... Windows 7 doesn't have drivers for the newest hardware, doesn't have the mcirocode, etc etc.

I know you'll likely just say it doesn't count and it has to be THE very latest hardware released in the past six months or something, but it's certainly possible to have very modern, very powerful hardware running Windows 7 just fine. For example, here[abload.de] is my X570-based Ryzen setup running Windows 7. All hardware working just fine as you can see, with drivers available for everything.

I only have a 5800X, but you could use a 5800X3D instead and get near-top tier gaming performance, or a 5950X for other things. I also only have an RTX 3070, but the 3090 Ti uses the same driver and also works on Windows 7. Nvidia actually just released a new Windows 7 driver for those cards back in December, and have committed to supporting them until September 2024. So it's certainly not like you're hurting for amazing hardware to run Windows 7, and both AM4 and RTX 3000 were the newest thing from each company until a few months ago.

DirectX 12 is also not too much of an issue because DXVK and VKD3D also work on Windows 7. Microsoft's official implementation of DX12 on Windows 7 wasn't widely used, but it's also unnecessary. Just about any game will work through those free and open source wrappers, and as anybody who games on Linux knows, they're pretty amazing.

To be clear, I don't use Windows 7 as my daily driver. Setting it up on this machine was just a bit of fun. To see what's possible. But I can understand why people do. I still would myself were it not for the impending forced software apocalypse. Windows 10 and 11 suck.

They stopped support for Windows 7 drivers last year. You're forever stuck on 474.11, there is no 2024 support.

And unfortunately, even with the custom images for Windows 7 to help try and make the 3000 series and 5000 series AMD Ryzen's work well on Windows 7, it just doesn't have the core scheduler functions needed.

So yes, you can run... somewhat... modern hardware. You'll never be able to fully utilize that hardware, ever. There's not even any official Windows 7 Chipset drivers for AMD 3000-5000 either sadly. Have to rely on community mods/changes and yet again, not even fully utilize the hardware.

And while DXVK/VKD3D are nice, won't compare in performance to a Windows 10 setup with the exact same hardware.

So, sadly... No, Windows 7 cannot fully use modern hardware.

[Crashed]

引用自 Komarimaru：

引用自 Aretak：

I know you'll likely just say it doesn't count and it has to be THE very latest hardware released in the past six months or something, but it's certainly possible to have very modern, very powerful hardware running Windows 7 just fine. For example, here[abload.de] is my X570-based Ryzen setup running Windows 7. All hardware working just fine as you can see, with drivers available for everything.

I only have a 5800X, but you could use a 5800X3D instead and get near-top tier gaming performance, or a 5950X for other things. I also only have an RTX 3070, but the 3090 Ti uses the same driver and also works on Windows 7. Nvidia actually just released a new Windows 7 driver for those cards back in December, and have committed to supporting them until September 2024. So it's certainly not like you're hurting for amazing hardware to run Windows 7, and both AM4 and RTX 3000 were the newest thing from each company until a few months ago.

DirectX 12 is also not too much of an issue because DXVK and VKD3D also work on Windows 7. Microsoft's official implementation of DX12 on Windows 7 wasn't widely used, but it's also unnecessary. Just about any game will work through those free and open source wrappers, and as anybody who games on Linux knows, they're pretty amazing.

To be clear, I don't use Windows 7 as my daily driver. Setting it up on this machine was just a bit of fun. To see what's possible. But I can understand why people do. I still would myself were it not for the impending forced software apocalypse. Windows 10 and 11 suck.

They stopped support for Windows 7 drivers last year. You're forever stuck on 474.11, there is no 2024 support.

And unfortunately, even with the custom images for Windows 7 to help try and make the 3000 series and 5000 series AMD Ryzen's work well on Windows 7, it just doesn't have the core scheduler functions needed.

So yes, you can run... somewhat... modern hardware. You'll never be able to fully utilize that hardware, ever. There's not even any official Windows 7 Chipset drivers for AMD 3000-5000 either sadly. Have to rely on community mods/changes and yet again, not even fully utilize the hardware.

And while DXVK/VKD3D are nice, won't compare in performance to a Windows 10 setup with the exact same hardware.

So, sadly... No, Windows 7 cannot fully use modern hardware.

To add to that, I use a 13900K which recommends Windows 11 whose scheduler understands the hybrid architecture and also means that the OS can mitigate the compatibility issues with games that use Denuvo and haven't been patched since late 2021 when the 12th Gen Intel CPUs came out.

[Illusion of Progress]

引用自 Crashed：

To add to that, I use a 13900K which recommends Windows 11 whose scheduler understands the hybrid architecture and also means that the OS can mitigate the compatibility issues with games that use Denuvo and haven't been patched since late 2021 when the 12th Gen Intel CPUs came out.

Wait, there was something in the 13th generation that changed to "fix" that? Because with the 12th generation it wasn't a thing limited Windows 10. There were indeed some games that didn't work under Windows 10 that Windows 11 would allow to work, but there were still some that didn't.

[Komarimaru]

引用自 Illusion of Progress：

引用自 Crashed：

To add to that, I use a 13900K which recommends Windows 11 whose scheduler understands the hybrid architecture and also means that the OS can mitigate the compatibility issues with games that use Denuvo and haven't been patched since late 2021 when the 12th Gen Intel CPUs came out.

Wait, there was something in the 13th generation that changed to "fix" that? Because with the 12th generation it wasn't a thing limited Windows 10. There were indeed some games that didn't work under Windows 10 that Windows 11 would allow to work, but there were still some that didn't.

Windows 11 scheduler knows how to properly handle the E-Cores, for 12900k and 13900k. so, you won't see the weird performance drops as previous versions could have happen, by like... I dunno, putting a high load process by mistake on an e-core vs a p-core.

[Crashed]

引用自 Komarimaru：

引用自 Illusion of Progress：

Wait, there was something in the 13th generation that changed to "fix" that? Because with the 12th generation it wasn't a thing limited Windows 10. There were indeed some games that didn't work under Windows 10 that Windows 11 would allow to work, but there were still some that didn't.

Windows 11 scheduler knows how to properly handle the E-Cores, for 12900k and 13900k. so, you won't see the weird performance drops as previous versions could have happen, by like... I dunno, putting a high load process by mistake on an e-core vs a p-core.

And the case of DRM was mitigated using a compatibility list that set the affinity to P-cores only for affected games. While several games were in fact mitigated in Windows 10 that was mostly by vendor patches. One example, Maneater, appears to continue to crash on Windows 10 but not 11 when using hybrid CPUs, and this game has been unpatched since 2021 due to a dispute between the publisher and developer over statements made by the publisher's former CEO.

[Illusion of Progress]

引用自 Komarimaru：

引用自 Illusion of Progress：

Wait, there was something in the 13th generation that changed to "fix" that? Because with the 12th generation it wasn't a thing limited Windows 10. There were indeed some games that didn't work under Windows 10 that Windows 11 would allow to work, but there were still some that didn't.

Windows 11 scheduler knows how to properly handle the E-Cores, for 12900k and 13900k. so, you won't see the weird performance drops as previous versions could have happen, by like... I dunno, putting a high load process by mistake on an e-core vs a p-core.

I wasn't referring to the performance, but rather that many games with DRM (at least Denuvo) didn't work right on 12th generation CPUs. The list of games did differ under Windows 10 and 11 though. I imagine some of the games have since been patched but I imagine not all were, and I wasn't sure if the 13th generation was entirely free of those issues, which is what I was asking.

[Komarimaru]

引用自 Illusion of Progress：

引用自 Komarimaru：

Windows 11 scheduler knows how to properly handle the E-Cores, for 12900k and 13900k. so, you won't see the weird performance drops as previous versions could have happen, by like... I dunno, putting a high load process by mistake on an e-core vs a p-core.

I wasn't referring to the performance, but rather that many games with DRM (at least Denvuso) didn't work right on 12th generation CPUs. The list of games did differ under Windows 10 and 11 though. I imagine some of the games have since been patched but I imagine not all were, and I wasn't sure if the 13th generation was entirely free of those issues, which is what I was asking.

Ya, as long as on Windows 11, the scheduler should be properly handling all the processes. All games should work, not encountered any with issues.

[kingjames488]

why does windows 11 need some fancy new MOBO with a crypto chip? sounds cryptic to me...

[Komarimaru]

引用自 kingjames488：

why does windows 11 need some fancy new MOBO with a crypto chip? sounds cryptic to me...

I could be mistaken, but firmware TPM 2.0 has existed on motherboards since 2015, some even since 2014? Been a while now.

[kingjames488]

引用自 Komarimaru：

引用自 kingjames488：

Well, you acted as if it was new, when been around a while. And it's for security reasons, obviously. A little research wouldn't hurt you know.

it's relatively new.... and if it was actually helpful I'm sure it would be advertised extensively how it's a feature that would benefit me...

the fact that it's not really being advertised but it simply a requirement leads me to believe that it's not there for my benefit, but in fact for the benefit of microsoft.

sounds like a great way to lock down the OS to specific MOBOs... a classic microsoft problem when trying to do something like, ya know, rebuild a PC and use the same OS you've payed for...

[Komarimaru]

引用自 kingjames488：

引用自 Komarimaru：

Well, you acted as if it was new, when been around a while. And it's for security reasons, obviously. A little research wouldn't hurt you know.

it's relatively new.... and if it was actually helpful I'm sure it would be advertised extensively how it's a feature that would benefit me...

the fact that it's not really being advertised but it simply a requirement leads me to believe that it's not there for my benefit, but in fact for the benefit of microsoft.

Ya prob been living under a rock in the tech sense then. Been talked about since Windows 11 beta. Reason why do little new information, is because people already were educated, or researched it to see why it is required.

Here's just one of many, a simple google search would give, that explains the benefits and why it's required for Windows 11.
https://practical365.com/windows-11-requirements-tpm-what-are-the-real-benefits/

As long as you're not on a PC that's reaching the decade old mark, shouldn't be a problem. Though anyone on a PC that old isn't really playing many games unless quite old.