Seeking GPU advice/Speculation on upcoming AMD GPUs

[Illusion of Progress]

I'm posting this separate from the GPU rumor/speculation thread since it applies to my own situation, and because I asked there a few days ago but either nobody knew or answered/it was overlooked.

I've been more and more closing in on the eventual time I will upgrade from my GTX 1060 that has served me rather well for over six years, and still does for the most part. I'm looking for advice on what to do between going with an older GPU like the RX 6800 series, or wait for the upcoming RX 7800 or RX 7700 series. And yes, I'm listing AMD GPUs for two reasons. The first is nVidia's RTX 40series has no options that appeal to me. That would leave something like the older RTX 30 series, but price for performance is worse than the RX 6000 series, and most importantly, the second reason is a rather recent issue that sort of rules out nVidia. Interestingly enough, I'm having driver issues.

LONG DETAILS VERSION: (go ahead and skip this, this is for those curious about the "driver issues".)

I play a lot of Minecraft (yes, it is ALWAYS this game causing me issues, haha). Anyone familiar with the Java version knows you can set up multiple profiles/versions. For the longest time, I stayed on an older version for numerous reasons that aren't relevant here. The last couple of years I moved to current versions and started a new world, and dug into shaders. Lately, I've been wanting to play my old world, so I loaded up the other profile/older version. I also thought I'd try the shaders on that version (1.11.2 in case anyone is interested), and they worked fine after I unded my "fboEnabled=false" options file edit I made ages ago to get anti-aliasing working, which... no longer does thanks to nVidia's drivers after 373.06.

Or... I THOUGHT they worked. I started noticing the game would sometimes visually hang, and then crash. Usually it happened when minimizing/maximizing the game window, or switching from fullscreen to window, or then clicking back in the game window, etc. (haven't QUITE narrowed down which of these causes it, but it's basically not handling task swapping well, but if I only play it never crashes).

The latest error the game gave me was this...

https://imgur.com/a/bOvYlOC

So i started to search the internet for that specific code. Everything I've found, including a plethora of posts on the official Mojang bug tracker[bugs.mojang.com], cites nVidia's drivers are to fault. Only... these are referencing driver versions from the late 3xx.xx times and I'm on recent drivers. Also, these drivers don't have issues under 1.16, 1.18, or 1.19, but with 1.11.2 they do. Odd.

I looked into Event Viewer and see this...

https://imgur.com/a/Gn6UqnF

What... What!?

Has anyone ever seen such an error as "An application has requested more GPU memory than is available in the system. That application will now be closed."?

Interestingly, this might be a clue. I've noticed that in the aforementioned recent versions that DON'T crash, I sometimes get VRAM exhausted and then it goes into system RAM. Seems it's simply crashing instead there in 1.11.2?

nVidia has this page about that error.

https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3553

In short, I'm finding my PC is crashing SPECIFICALLY under that version of Minecraft. I have two Minecraft profiles because my older world is being kept from being updated on purpose. the reasons aren't really relevant, but I'm listing this before someone says "update the game". I have, but I simply play both versions.

In short, this issue is accelerating my desire to change my GPU, and interestingly enough, away from nVidia for the reason of drivers when people often state this is a reason to go TO nVidia. Hopefully a potential future with an AMD video card doesn't give me new issues, and just trade what I have for another one. :(

END LONG DETAILS VERSION

So, back to the primary point, does anyone have suggestions? I'm looking to upgrade as early as maybe next month or two. Does anyone know when AMD is possibly expected to announce the RX 7800 or 7900 series? If it's not soon, the 6800 is an option, but I'd hate to pick one up on the eve of a GPU that may use less power, make less heat (these ARE factors for me), and so on. But the game crashing is pushing me to upgrade sooner, but since it's not yet frequent/random enough (I'll just... try and avoid multi-tasking entirely I suppose *sigh), I CAN wait a couple/few months if it gets me a better option.

Also, I won't have a FIRM budget. meaning, I can be flexible if it gives a better option, but I'm not looking to spend near or above four figures. that's ridiculous amounts of money to me. Rough ballpark, $500 to $750 (?) USD but more means I'll have to save more. earliest I'm looking to buy is a month or two.

Sorry for the long, somewhat unorganized/randomly trailed, thread. Thank you so much to anyone who read it (or didn't) and will advise me. I just want to play Minecraft without worries again. Is that so hard. :(

[GOD RAYS ON ULTRA™]

Computer Upgrade King has my favorite GPU on sale right now. The ASUS rouge strix rtx 3090 for $999!

I'm really thinking about getting one! This looks like an incredible value!

[UserNotFound]

Hardʬare Hero eredeti hozzászólása:

Computer Upgrade King has my favorite GPU on sale right now. The ASUS rouge strix rtx 3090 for $999!

I'm really thinking about getting one! This looks like an incredible value!

Honestly, if you think the RTX 3090 is worth it at 999USD, it's a sentiment I don't agree with. The RTX 4070 Ti at 799USD is a better buy, or, an AIB AMD RX 7900 XTX at 1100USD would be even better. The RTX 4070 Ti is about as fast as an RTX 3090 Ti, while the RX 7900 XT would be about as fast, if not faster at rasterize gaming. The AIB made RX 7900 XTX (1100USDm) or AIB made RTX 4080 (1300USD?) would obviously spank the RTX 3090...

[Illusion of Progress]

Hardʬare Hero eredeti hozzászólása:

Computer Upgrade King has my favorite GPU on sale right now. The ASUS rouge strix rtx 3090 for $999!

I'm really thinking about getting one! This looks like an incredible value!

Thanks, but that would be more than I'm looking to spend, and given the issue I'm having with a given software I use and nVidia's drivers not playing together well, I'm leaning against nVidia right now. Not purely by choice, as I love nVidia hardware and know mostly what to expect, but getting a better performance for price and fixing the issue together make a compelling case for an AMD option, so I'm looking at those right now.

I imagine I'm looking more towards an RX 6800 XT, or RX 7800 (?) or RX 7700. Maybe RX 6900? Not sure.

I was hoping for some feedback on some speculation, even if it was purely a bit of guessing, on what to expect with the next likely RX 7000 GPUs (7800/7700), or if I could maybe expect some sort of official announcement from AMD on those within the next month or two. I'm not really "in-the-know" on what may be coming up in the hardware world right now.

[GOD RAYS ON ULTRA™]

I'm still not sold on the rtx 4000 series and I'm definitely not sold on AMD offerings either.

Plus the ASUS rouge strix is a high-end model, looks absolutely gorgeous, $999 is priced well here. To me the rtx 3000 series is better.

These companies are too ambitious with their releases having unsafe power delivery and now vapor chamber issues on AMD. No thanks! I'll gladly pass this atrocious generation of overly ambitious garbage!

[Mad Scientist]

Honestly I would typically recommend NVIDIA - until the 4k series. Depending on what you're going to be doing or the resource cap you need, I'd wait for the new AMD lineup since they've been far more competitive, and chances are it'll be the more fine tuned lineup given all advancements.

There's a decent chance they'll do discounts on some sites of the current generation/series once the new lineup comes out as well. Sometimes they even do surprise price drops (rare, but can be a BIG difference) for 'older' amd equipment.

[emoticorpse]

As far as the Minecraft issue, I know you know what you're doing so I won't try insulting your intelligence or doing much research since you probably covered it what I would have. But if you haven't already try updating java? or check this page https://forums.sketchup.com/t/an-application-has-requested-more-gpu-memory-than-is-available-in-the-system/133378 and the OP says his issue was resolved with one of the posts there but I think his problem dealt with Sketchup so not sure if will solve the issue in Minecraft.

As for the GPU dilemma, I'm in a similar situation. You may even remember me talking about wanting to upgrade but not wanting to upgrade to. I've pretty much settled on Ryzen 7900x system, but now have a hard choice of what to do with my GPU.

I have a 2070 and my options are mainly these....

1. Keep the 2070 with my 7900x which would be ok since I still have a 1080p monitor and play practically no new games. Only drawback is that I'd hate a confused feeling of where my system sites in strength with a very strong CPU and a low-midrange budget card at this point.

2. Get a medium tier card now like a 6800 or a 3070 ti but then I'd still feel like my system is unbalanced and at the point I want to upgrade to 1440p (which will probably be soon) I may be left a bit underwhelmed at the performance and would want to get a new GPU but then I'm stuck with the one I just bought (I don't sell my old stuff so it would be wasted parts/money to me).

3. Invest and get a high end card to match my high end CPU but those GPU's really aren't worth it because the higher the price only slightly higher performance.

4. Just stick with what I have now and keep waiting. (I don't want to wait for the free 32 GB of ram promotion to go away), it's not often I see that happen and to pass on it would basically be throwint $175 in the garbage because then I would have to pay for that ram in the future.

I liked the idea of 7900 XT for $899 but to find out it still isn't on par with Nvidia gpus when it comes to raytracing would mean it's not that good a deal. You're paying less because you're getting less raytracing wise which is becoming a big deal nowadays even if it's just for "getting you feet wet" purposes.

I'm considering a 6800 because for the price it seems the best option but if it's lacking in raytracing it kind of voids my logic of not buying a high end AMD because it lacks good raytracing when here I am buying a 6800 which isn't very strong at raytracing.

I was considering just getting a 3070 which would sit somewhere in the middle because of lack of good options and it would still probably be good enough for me.

So that's where I'm at really right now. I have my main system pretty much picked out but no GPU's I want to jump on, and I don't like the idea of building most of a system right now then finishing it later. I want it all at once. Not sure how I want to do this. I'm also not on a firm budget. I'll spend a lot of it was worth it, but seems right now it's not.

[Cathulhu]

nVidia 4000 series is pretty expensive. The sad truth is, AMD has their own set of problems:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26Lxydc-3K8

[Illusion of Progress]

Mad Scientist eredeti hozzászólása:

Honestly I would typically recommend NVIDIA - until the 4k series. Depending on what you're going to be doing or the resource cap you need, I'd wait for the new AMD lineup since they've been far more competitive, and chances are it'll be the more fine tuned lineup given all advancements.

There's a decent chance they'll do discounts on some sites of the current generation/series once the new lineup comes out as well. Sometimes they even do surprise price drops (rare, but can be a BIG difference) for 'older' amd equipment.

Yeah, in a normal situation I'd be looking at nVidia and AMD evenly, maybe even leaning nVidia in a close-enough-to-even comparison, and going with the better price to performance. But my present issue is nVidia's drivers.

Also, and I probably should have mentioned this in the first post, but nVidia's recent stinginess with VRAM is a drawback. I'm often exhausting the 6 GB on my GTX 1060 more and more, so something with just 8 GB half a dozen years after I got it, and needing to last many more from here on out, won't do. Something with at least double digit GB VRAM with highly be preferred, ideally something like 16 GB rather than just 10 GB or 12 GB or whatever (though I could probably make do with the latter if need be). These are rather regular occurrences...

https://imgur.com/a/nM3nkMM

Granted, that's down to running not only Java Minecraft but shaders on top of them, with are not efficient at all, but... nothing I can do about that.

[emoticorpse]

Also, in addition to the post I just made would it make sense that Minecraft is crashing because it's asking for more GPU memory than available because you're simply out of GPU memory? A new GPU with more memory would fix it regardless of brand and maybe it doesn't have anything to do with drivers?

I'm guessing you don't have another GPU with more memory lying around to test with.

[Illusion of Progress]

emoticorpse eredeti hozzászólása:

As far as the Minecraft issue, I know you know what you're doing so I won't try insulting your intelligence or doing much research since you probably covered it what I would have. But if you haven't already try updating java?

No no no! Thank you for suggesting that! I didn't even think of that, namely because I have an updated version, but you reminded me Java Minecraft doesn't use the installed version but rather its own bundled version. It's worth a try. Maybe the issue is that specific version of Java and my drivers when playing with OptiFine/shaders.

At the least, I imagine an AMD option will be the better price to performance and VRAM proposition. But if it DOES turn out to be this, it least makes nVidia an option IF come buy time for me (still a month or three away), they have a better option. I'm doubting it since we sort of know some about the RTX 4070 Ti, but that's why i was asking about the RX 7800/7700 information. They might only barely be better.

emoticorpse eredeti hozzászólása:

As for the GPU dilemma, I'm in a similar situation. You may even remember me talking about wanting to upgrade but not wanting to upgrade to. I've pretty much settled on Ryzen 7900x system, but now have a hard choice of what to do with my GPU.

Yeah, I do, but I thought you already upgraded.

With me being on a GTX 1060, almost anything should be a vast improvement.

For your situation, do you need the 7900X? Don't you have an AM4 platform now? I'd sit on that and wait for the 3D cache AM5 CPUs, and upgrade the GPU before then (or at the same time if your RTX 2070 is enough for now). I think buying into Zen 4 now would be like buying into Zen 3 at first; that is, not so great a price for performance proposition that will soon be humiliated by later releases on the same platform. But to be fair, I think even then it will be expensive since the problem is partly DDR5, not just CPU pricing.

I want to skip that and move to a 5800X3D badly, but... GPU is a priority for me.

[emoticorpse]

Illusion of Progress eredeti hozzászólása:

emoticorpse eredeti hozzászólása:

As far as the Minecraft issue, I know you know what you're doing so I won't try insulting your intelligence or doing much research since you probably covered it what I would have. But if you haven't already try updating java?

No no no! Thank you for suggesting that! I didn't even think of that, namely because I have an updated version, but you reminded me Java Minecraft doesn't use the installed version but rather its own bundled version. It's worth a try. Maybe the issue is that specific version of Java and my drivers when playing with OptiFine/shaders.

At the least, I imagine an AMD option will be the better price to performance and VRAM proposition. But if it DOES turn out to be this, it least makes nVidia an option IF come buy time for me (still a month or three away), they have a better option. I'm doubting it since we sort of know some about the RTX 4070 Ti, but that's why i was asking about the RX 7800/7700 information. They might only barely be better.

emoticorpse eredeti hozzászólása:

As for the GPU dilemma, I'm in a similar situation. You may even remember me talking about wanting to upgrade but not wanting to upgrade to. I've pretty much settled on Ryzen 7900x system, but now have a hard choice of what to do with my GPU.

Yeah, I do, but I thought you already upgraded.

With me being on a GTX 1060, almost anything should be a vast improvement.

For your situation, do you need the 7900X? Don't you have an AM4 platform now? I'd sit on that and wait for the 3D cache AM5 CPUs, and upgrade the GPU before then (or at the same time if your RTX 2070 is enough for now). I think buying into Zen 4 now would be like buying into Zen 3 at first; that is, not so great a price for performance proposition that will soon be humiliated by later releases on the same platform. But to be fair, I think even then it will be expensive since the problem is partly DDR5, not just CPU pricing.

I want to skip that and move to a 5800X3D badly, but... GPU is a priority for me.

I don't need the 7900x. I just kind of want it maybe so my brain thinks "7900x + 7900xt must be a winner system" lol. I don't know. I probably will end up waiting GPU wise. I was (and still am) actually just considering waiting on just my GPU. I will end up getting a 1000 watt PSU to be prepared for anything coming up. I might even still keep my 3700x but I'm trying not to because of the free ram. If it wasn't for the free ram I wouldn't be so eager to buy. Well plus I hate this motherboard lol. Otherwise I would have probably just gotten a 5900x by itself and popped it into this current system.

[Illusion of Progress]

emoticorpse eredeti hozzászólása:

Also, in addition to the post I just made would it make sense that Minecraft is crashing because it's asking for more GPU memory than available because you're simply out of GPU memory? A new GPU with more memory would fix it regardless of brand and maybe it doesn't have anything to do with drivers?

Definite maybe, but I'm not willing to risk an expensive purchase on a guess when said crash code IS known to be nVidia driver related.

For all I know, it could be trying to write more than the GPU can handle, like not just VRAM-wise but TOTAL-wise, which in my case is 38 GB (!) because of some bug. Alternatively, if it's just the 6 GB it's exhausting, it's still crashing when it shouldn't and adding more VRAM is a bandage that could soon be worn through, so to speak. And i watched VRAM use and in the older version (the one that is crashing), it never goes as high as in the newer version, so it seems like it might not even be USING that much but is just... having some issue. I think it might be tied to changing full screen to window or vice versa, or minimizing or vice versa. No Minecraft crash logs, strangely, and the last thing in the game log just says...

[09:00:54] [Client thread/INFO]: [Shaders] Framebuffer created.

And then it fails.

One reply I found on Reddit had a former AMD GPU user who had no issues move to nVidia and start having said issue. So anecdotally, it seems AMD is free of at least that one particular issue (out of who knows how many possible).

[emoticorpse]

Illusion of Progress eredeti hozzászólása:

emoticorpse eredeti hozzászólása:

Also, in addition to the post I just made would it make sense that Minecraft is crashing because it's asking for more GPU memory than available because you're simply out of GPU memory? A new GPU with more memory would fix it regardless of brand and maybe it doesn't have anything to do with drivers?

Definite maybe, but I'm not willing to risk an expensive purchase on a guess when said crash code IS known to be nVidia driver related.

For all I know, it could be trying to write more than the GPU can handle, like not just VRAM-wise but TOTAL-wise, which in my case is 38 GB (!) because of some bug. Alternatively, if it's just the 6 GB it's exhausting, it's still crashing when it shouldn't and adding more VRAM is a bandage that could soon be worn through, so to speak. And i watched VRAM use and in the older version (the one that is crashing), it never goes as high as in the newer version, so it seems like it might not even be USING that much but is just... having some issue. I think it might be tied to changing full screen to window or vice versa, or minimizing or vice versa. No Minecraft crash logs, strangely, and the last thing in the game log just says...

[09:00:54] [Client thread/INFO]: [Shaders] Framebuffer created.

And then it fails.

One reply I found on Reddit had a former SMD GPU user who had no issues move to nVidia and start having said issue. So anecdotally, it seems AMD is free of at least that one particular issue (out of who knows how many possible).

Have you tried allocating more system memory to Minecraft? I really would like to help fix that since it doesn't seem right at all for you to be forced to upgrade/get a new GPU simply because of that error, especially if it's fixable.

[Illusion of Progress]

Well I mean I'm due for upgrading soon anyway so it's definitely not just for this. This is sort of just accelerating it a tad (still need more time to save up and wait on AMD options maybe).

JVM allocation probably isn't related but I can't personally claim that for absolute sure. But I'm reallllly thinking it's not. I already allocate 4 GB and don't use all that so I doubt that is what's running out (seems to be GPU VRAM instead). And besides, allocating too much does nothing at best, and hurts performance at worst, because then the garbage collector might decide it has to run less frequently, but will be dealing with bigger amounts of data when it does, and the garbage collector running is a rather important source of stutters in Minecraft. Would also accelerate "real" RAM use because actual use is often near twice what the JVM itself uses (plus committed above that, as I found out the hard way when I disabled my page file years ago).

It's an old myth that allocating more RAM helps. It can, but it only does if your current allocation is too little to begin with (which sometimes is the case with Mojang set defaults, but I use above those already). Everything indicated this is VRAM/GPU driver related, not JVM allocation.

[Yamantaka]

It's hard to say anything meaningful about future GPUs. For now 6800 xt or mostly the whole series is one of the better options. I guess it's about how keen you're for an upgrade. Waiting for AMD and Nvidia launching their next cards gives more options and certainty. Yet, if it's time for upgrade, then it's.

I don't see either as a bad option. More of a question when you want an upgrade. Future will hold better deals for more performance at some point. Still, that's no reason to hold back, if need is there right now.