AMD vs NVidia in DirectX 12?

[Icedwhisper]

So after looking at a few benchmarks online, I've made it out that AMD is better than nvidia in DirectX 12. I mean in DirectX 11, AMD gets less frames but as soon as it's DirectX 12, the frames increase a lot. However, from what I've seen from NVIdia benchmarks, nvidia gets less frames in DirectX 12 than it does in DirectX 11. Even though nvidia beats every other card, it still doesn't do better in Directx 12, which scares me from buying the GTX 1070.
So is AMD ever going to reveal a card that can match the GTX 1070 with same or less price?
Thanks!

[Bad 💀 Motha]

Single GTX 1070 would still be more then enough for 60+ FPS @ 1080p or even 1440p
Pretty much across the board with games; so where is the issue?
And by the time DX12 is here to where we require it to run our newest games, we'll be looking ahead at already being to the point where GTX 1100 or 1200 series are coming...

And it all requires Win10 64bit, so that comes first.

[Revelene]

It depends on the implementation of the API. In a perfect example, Nvidia can get a performance increase... Just not as much as AMD. It isn't a simple cut and dry answer, either. There are factors, such as resolution.

The problem is that DX12 is far from perfect implementation. It will be a few years until DX12 will be widely used. It is also far from perfect, with many kinks that need to be worked out.

Getting a GPU now, based on DX12 performance, is silly. By the time it is the main DX to use, there will be a newer generation of GPUs to use as well.

[Icedwhisper]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Bad-Motha:

Single GTX 1070 would still be more then enough for 60+ FPS @ 1080p or even 1440p
Pretty much across the board with games; so where is the issue?

The fact that I could've bought a better card that could have lived longer for playing games at ultra settings (8xmsaa etc) with consistent 60FPS and still have a good resale value (So that I could have extra budget to buy a newer card). Anyways, the GTX 1080 is losing upto 40FPS in some DirectX 12 titles whereas the AMD cards are GAINING upto 30~40 FPS in DirectX 12 titles, So just imagine what would happen in the future?

[Rumpelcrutchskin]

Thing is AMD has nothing that could compete with GTX 1070 or 1080 at the moment, Vulkan or DX 12 or whatever. RX 480 can just about break even with GTX 1060 if game uses Vulkan, if not the GTX 1060 beats it.

[Icedwhisper]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Rumpelcrutchskin:

Thing is AMD has nothing that could compete with GTX 1070 or 1080 at the moment, Vulkan or DX 12 or whatever. RX 480 can just about break even with GTX 1060 if game uses Vulkan, if not the GTX 1060 beats it.

So games HAVE to use the Vulkan API for AMD to do better? Or is Vulkan part of DirectX 12?
Also, do they have any plans to reveal a card that can beat the GTX 1070? I read somewhere that the RX490 is going to rival the GTX 1080, but never read anything about there being a card rivaling the GTX 1070. Is that true? Thanks!

[b0nes]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Icedwhisper:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Rumpelcrutchskin:

Thing is AMD has nothing that could compete with GTX 1070 or 1080 at the moment, Vulkan or DX 12 or whatever. RX 480 can just about break even with GTX 1060 if game uses Vulkan, if not the GTX 1060 beats it.

So games HAVE to use the Vulkan API for AMD to do better? Or is Vulkan part of DirectX 12?
Also, do they have any plans to reveal a card that can beat the GTX 1070? I read somewhere that the RX490 is going to rival the GTX 1080, but never read anything about there being a card rivaling the GTX 1070. Is that true? Thanks!

No, a videogame needs Vulkan or/and DX12 async compute for AMD to benefit. Vulkan (Khronos) is not part of DX12 (Microsoft). Buy a GPU that works well in your situation, if you really care about DX12 that much AMD is the way to go, AMD cards also tend to scale better at higher resolutions moreso when Vulkan and DX12 are added to the mix

[_I_]

vulcan uses ogl not dx
similar to mantle, but with much more suport

atleast ogl has a few games/engines that support it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OpenGL_programs

[Revelene]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από _I_:

vulcan uses ogl not dx
similar to mantle, but with much more suport

atleast ogl has a few games/engines that support it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OpenGL_programs

I know what you mean but the wording that an API uses another API bothers me...

[Squirrell]

If in the future an advantage becomes apparent one way or another, the card manufacturers will adjust prices to remain competitive. Card prices are tied to performance and demand, not manufacturing cost. The worst thing that can happen for gamers is that one of them gets a monopoly.

[_I_]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Bill S. Preston, Esquire:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από _I_:

vulcan uses ogl not dx
similar to mantle, but with much more suport

atleast ogl has a few games/engines that support it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OpenGL_programs

I know what you mean but the wording that an API uses another API bothers me...

an api can use another api
ex. glide wrapper coverts glide to ogl or dx/d3d

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Squirrell:

If in the future an advantage becomes apparent one way or another, the card manufacturers will adjust prices to remain competitive. Card prices are tied to performance and demand, not manufacturing cost. The worst thing that can happen for gamers is that one of them gets a monopoly.

even if it is a monopoly, they will need to compete with their own price/performance curves
prev top gen gpus prices drop so the newer similar performing gpus will need to match that
alot like what intel has done with their cpu prices

[Revelene]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από _I_:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Bill S. Preston, Esquire:

I know what you mean but the wording that an API uses another API bothers me...

an api can use another api
ex. glide wrapper coverts glide to ogl or dx/d3d

That is not how Vulkan works.

It's one API implementation... Yes, it has some similarities but it is NOT OpenGL and it isn't running off of it.

Vulkan was a ground up design and Khronos Group is rather proud of that fact as well.

They are even continuing development for OpenGL separately, as Vulkan is not a direct replacement either.

[pasa]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από _I_:

an api can use another api
ex. glide wrapper coverts glide to ogl or dx/d3d

Yes, but tha it the best way to kiss performance goodbye.

[_I_]

actually no

on games that were designed to use glide/ogl, using glide/ogl wrapper to convert it to dx would increas its performance by alot, over double in some cases

the wrapper running on an independant thread can use its own core, reducing the load on the game dependant cores
if the game is optimized for glide/ogl that will give a boost
and if the gpu is optimized for dx that gives another boost

[Revelene]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από _I_:

actually no

on games that were designed to use glide/ogl, using glide/ogl wrapper to convert it to dx would increas its performance by alot, over double in some cases

the wrapper running on an independant thread can use its own core, reducing the load on the game dependant cores
if the game is optimized for glide/ogl that will give a boost
and if the gpu is optimized for dx that gives another boost

Last time I checked, we were talking about DX12 and Vulkan was brought into the discussion, due to being similar low-level API design...

Why are you talking about Glide emulation? Again, this has nothing to do with how Vulkan works.

[pasa]

Err, compared to what? I'm talking about cost of abstractions. The exist. With very rare exceptions. If you compare a "native" approach to one using extra layer of light API wrappers, performance will suffer a little.

And if you use a framework/heavy wrapper with its own approach to things that must be CONVERTED to the native, then look for massive loss. All those things are used for developer convenience as it increases code reuability and shorten dev cost by really much. And allow separation of work too. Also easy switch to a different raw API. And in practice the area with measurable perf loss may be limited to a few points -- possibly those get rewritten to variants of native going around the usual ways.