A question of OLED

[Obsessive Power]

Okay so I will soon be getting an LG C2 42" OLED TV. I'm just a little concerned about OLED Burn in risks.

Just to be clear, I DO NOT INTEND TO USE IT AS A STANDALONE MONITOR. It will be used for my Series X and to play some PC games. General PC use will remain with my main PC monitor. So hardly any browsing or apps, just games.

I understand that with 'varied content, it should be fine, right?

Anyone here use an OLED for gaming?

[nullable]

I have an LG G1 which just bought last month, it is similar to the C2 and when I was shopping and it was between G1 or C2 in the end, very close call on my part. We wanted to wall mount the TV, so the G1 won out because it's packaged to be wall mounted (no stand, comes with a wall mount).

I don't think there's any real concern, and they're beautiful screens, and the G1 has some nice gaming features in the options menu. I would imagine the C2 has similar options.

I think what happens is there's some real edge case scenarios, that people read and get worked up about and start repeating and "warning" others about forgetting that it was always such an extreme edge case that making a big deal about it is just FUD run amok. And people love sharing those "maybes, coulds, woulds, possibles, etc" regardless of how relevant they are.

It's a non-issue. You're not playing any game long enough, for an extended period of time, which such a static UI that's going to burn the screen. It's easy to imagine that you could or will, but you're not going to. And the only thing that makes it seem plausible to you is you have no idea how edge case burn in is under normal usage. Playing video games is normal usage... after you use it for a while and it doesn't immediately burn in because you paused a game for twenty minutes you'll get over it.

[ZeekAncient]

From what I am hearing and reading, yes you should be fine. If you use an OLED for content consumption, you should be fine. If you use it for general PC work, where the screen will stay stagnant on one thing for an extended period of time, you will run the risk of burn- in.

I too have been seriously considering this display. That, or the Alienware AW3423DW, or perhaps the older LG C1. I am leaning toward the C1 because it is cheaper, but definitely leaning toward either the LG C1 or C2 over the Alienware because simply I want something that also doubles as a TV. To stream shows and movies. Harder on a traditional PC monitor because it doesn't have everything built in. These do.

A lot on here will try to detract you from going with an LG C1 or C2, or an OLED in general. But put simply, it is the greatest way to play games right now. The display just looks amazing. As far as TVs go, the LG C2, and even older C1 and CX, are the best for playing games on. Even PC games.

I think this review of the monitor says it all:

https://www.techspot.com/review/2507-lg-c2-monitor/

I for one can't wait to get an OLED display. But I might just wait a few months closer to Black Friday when they go down in price considerably.

[Obsessive Power]

Thank you both.

I've not had any TV with image burn or retention for years, but when I did I can remember how unsightly it was. The last time I saw anything like it was way back in 2009 on the early model HD Ready TV I was using. LCD's are pretty much immune to screen retention/burn now, but it was still an issue back then.

I'm not too concerned about general use, what worries me are UI elements on a game having burn in, like life/energy bars, speedometers and the like.

[_I_]

if you use it as a normal tv for shows and commercials, very little static image burn will not be noticeable

if its used for desktop, or news channels, the static burn images will be very noticeable

[nullable]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από _I_:

if you use it as a normal tv for shows and commercials, very little static image burn will not be noticeable

if its used for desktop, or news channels, the static burn images will be very noticeable

Well this is what I mean. How many endless hours of news channel would you have to watch? 50, 100, 1,000 nonstop? Clearly the problem with the fear of unknowns and unquantified claims. Not unlike SSD write exhaustion FUD... "SSDs can wear their bits out", "yeah, if you
erase and completely fill the drive up every day for five to ten years". Ultimately what people with fears like this need/want is some data to ease their concerns. (I'm just as guilty downplaying concerns without quantifying them, as raising concerns without quantifying them. So please don't chomp my head off.)

So I got curious, now granted the TV's used are a few years old, and an LG C2 is a newer panel so you might be willing to believe it's more resilient or whatever. I think my G1 is probably a bit nicer than a 2018 OLED.

https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/real-life-oled-burn-in-test

Seems like you have to do something pretty extreme to get noticeable burn in. Watching CNN 20 hours a day, every day, for four or five months to start to get some hints at burn in, so over 2,800 hours the way I figure it, rough math: 20 weeks, * 7 days, * 20 hours a day. And that's the worst scenario in the test setup. Less ridiculous use cases fare a lot better.

So that kinda seems like a non-issue. Normal use, more modern screens, a little maintenance and your OLED TV will last as long as any other TV you've had and didn't bother to fuss over. At least that's how I perceive it.

Also for perspective, the LG C7 used in the test versus a LG C2 https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/compare/lg-c7-oled-vs-lg-c2-oled/421/31229?usage=1&threshold=0.10

And rtings mentions starting up a new round of burn in tests with modern oleds, problem is even if it starts today it'll take a couple of years to get all the data to do a complete comparison.

[_I_]

time adds up
3,000 hours isnt alot for a tv

@6hrs a day = 500days = <2years of estimated use
3000hrs is only about 4mo of constant use

if used for games, it will burn in ui elements faster than the changing colors on the display

some of the oled displays can shift the image, which will blur the edges of the burned in areas

[nullable]

Kinda seems like someone didn't look at the page, and the results. I mentioned the worst case to highlight how ridiculous the scenario was and how extreme you'd have to go to get a burn in result prematurely. And I was pretty clear that other use cases fared much better. So picking that number, and it applying it to everything is 100% weapons grade bolognium.

The games tested appear to fare better than regular TV viewing, so that kinda cripples some of your claims. How many games have you played for 14,000+ hours I wonder. Is it zero? I'm betting it's zero. If only they had tested Pac-Man, then maybe you could have gotten the convenient result you wanted.

Ultimately if the root argument is eventually things wear out, well, you don't say. What's the need to make a fuss about that? I dunno, if the trade off is that my amazing looking OLED TV will eventually need to be replaced with an even nicer screen I'm good with that. I think most people who aren't stuck on repeating pedantic claptrap are ok with it too.

OP, you think you might be in the market for a new TV in 6-8 years as a worst case scenario?

[ZeekAncient]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από _I_:

time adds up
3,000 hours isnt alot for a tv

@6hrs a day = 500days = <2years of estimated use
3000hrs is only about 4mo of constant use

if used for games, it will burn in ui elements faster than the changing colors on the display

some of the oled displays can shift the image, which will blur the edges of the burned in areas

The LG C2, and C1, and even the Alienware, have that image shift technology. These displays also have some dimming features that help to prevent burn-in.

In fact, Linus from Linus Tech Tips, was using the LG C1(or it might have been the CX, I forget) as his main display for a year. He wasn't just using it just for content consumption, but using it for work which had static UI elements that stayed on the screen for awhile, and he ended up getting burn-in. However, the TV has a reset feature, where you can reset the image of the display internally, actually I am not too sure exactly what was done, or how, but he did a video on it. Anyway, it actually removed the burn-in.

However, like the reviews have stated. And owners of these displays have stated. It would take an incredibly long time for the static UI elements to cause burn-in. You would have to exclusively watch the news all day. Or exclusively play one game(which can happen, so I wouldn't recommend an OLED for a hardcore eSports player of one game, or a streamer of one game). Or use the display to display one image all day, lol, for burn-in to occur. So, if you use these displays for a wide range of content consumption, like I would, you would be fine.

Alienware is so confident of their burn-in protection that they even offer a 3 year warranty that covers burn-in. I even saw a video of someone testing the burn-in on a Nintendo Switch OLED, and they kept it on the same image, all day, and it took like 6 months for slight burn-in to occur. That is a long time. So, if he would have been playing varied games, or turning it off, or basically using the Switch normally, burn-in would not have occured, or at least taken several, several years.

The point is, is that the reviews for these displays are all very high. Reviews by well respected publications and individuals, and they all say that gaming on an OLED is just incredible. Next gen. And not just for a PS5 or XBox Series X, but for PC Gaming as well. It is incredible. And HDR on them is like nothing else. So, if what you are doing is content consumption. Playing games, watching shows and movies, etc., you have nothing to really worry about. If you are trying to use these displays as a traditional PC monitor for work, etc and exclusively that, probably not a good idea.

I for one am set on getting a good OLED display. Still not sure on which one I will get, but I am 99% sure that my next display will be an OLED. Cheers.

[Illusion of Progress]

Burn in is definitely not a non-issue. Things like pixel shift and pixel dimming (on an already brightness challenged display type) aren't things for their own sake, after all. Those existing doesn't suddenly make it an entire non-issue either.

Now it may be situationally a non-issue for some people and some use cases. I won't argue that. If someone is using their display for media consumption like videos and TV and games rather than static display like a desktop, or heavy use of specific games (MMOs and some others) or channels with static elements, or maybe they don't mind replacing it in around five years anyway to where they say it's not an issue for them. Again, I won't argue that it can't NOT be an issue situationally. But claiming it is wholly a non-issue outside of very unrealistic scenarios and just "FUD run amok" sounds like choosing to see only a side you want to see. It's probably also worth mentioning that the ones with a vested interested in selling TVs will of course list the uses that accelerate it as "extreme edge cases" to minimize their validity. I don't put much stock in them downplaying this or writing off causes that accelerate it.

There are plenty of people who have had issues with burn in a mere couple/few years after purchasing a set. I couldn't tell you what their use case was, but it's sort of besides the point when real world use case is objectively resulting in it, no?

That article is but one source, and it's not even entirely conclusive that burn in won't be an issue. It's merely concludes that it's not guaranteed to be one, and over a time span that I consider short to be honest.

The comparison to NAND wearing out is not an apt comparison. They are rather different time scales, and when NAND wears out, that's it, but when burn in settles in, someone might be bothered by a minor amount of it, and someone else might not consider a more severe case an issue at all (the amount of "clouding" or whatever it's called that LCDs do that my sister put up with for 5+ years was a testament to that for me, and I still don't know how she did).

[ZeekAncient]

Obviously, you bring up some good points. I mean, like I had said, for content consumption, and how I would use the display, I don't believe I would have to worry too much about burn-in. But I definitely did say that there is a risk of it. Depending on how you use it.

So, if most definitely is not a non-issue. OLEDS, for as great an image as they provide, ARE susceptible to burn-in. No doubt about that. So, I would take precautions. However, I did watch a video review from someone who stated that they didn't really take any precautions for burn-in, and still haven't got any burn-in after several years. So, maybe he got lucky.

Which brings up my next point, that I think we missed. Not all these OLED screens are created equal. Just like the silicon lottery. One LG C2 OLED might be more susceptible than another LG C2 OLED. There is just no way to be sure.

Just the way it is with everything. I am sure someone might be lucky, not use the screen just for content consumption, keep static UI elements on screen, not take any precautions, and not get burn-in of any kind. Then someone might be extremely cautious, not keep static UI elements on screen for too long, and just use it for content consumption, and receive burn-in after less than a year. It could happen. Just the luck of the draw I guess.

[Illusion of Progress]

Sorry, yes, I should have clarified because I didn't quote anyone.

My post wasn't meant to convey I am in opposition to OLED for the OP's situation (nor even in general). I'm not.

I just found the statements saying burn in is a non-issue and making it sound like it is just something people are manufacturing, so to speak, as off base.

[nullable]

Non-issue doesn't mean people are making things up. But it can mean they're making a mountain out of a molehill. Like I dunno, harping on NAND write exhaustion as being significant con for SSDs.

[_I_]

i would still give oleds another year or so before saying screen burn is a non issue with them

better, yes
good enough for a daily driver for more than a year, not yet

good displays can last 10+ years and several cpu/gpu upgrades

[nullable]

LG does offer a five year warranty on their higher end OLEDs.

What TV's are you guaranteeing for 10 years? I mean if you know of some good options, why not mention them?

[_I_]

none offer warranty that long, but most will last that long if they made it for 5+ years