Steam deck SSD

[Legion]

bait-and-switch
/bāt and,(ə)n(d) swiCH/
noun
noun: bait-and-switch
the action (generally illegal) of advertising goods which are an apparent bargain, with the intention of substituting inferior or more expensive goods.
"a bait-and-switch scheme"

[Obsessive Power]

Look, 90% or more of the people who are going to buy a deck will play games on it and nothing else. They'll probably play them off SD-cards. This reduced speed SSD isn't going to make a difference to the vast majority of users.

If you don't like it buy something else.

[Andrius227]

Obsessive Power eredeti hozzászólása:

Look, 90% or more of the people who are going to buy a deck will play games on it and nothing else. They'll probably play them off SD-cards. This reduced speed SSD isn't going to make a difference to the vast majority of users.

If you don't like it buy something else.

Pretty much. If you want a portable device for work you buy a laptop. Steam deck is for gaming. Just because it can do other things doesnt mean its made for it.

And ssd speed means absolutely nothing. Steam deck is designed to run games from micro sd cards.

[AmaiAmai]

I don't understand the point of this, is it simply to inform or to seek remedy?

All I can say is that is why you never early adopt and research all products thoroughly.

Personally, I'd only trust a handheld that I built myself. I learned from the Sony PSP days that handhelds generally are a "no-go" for gaming (the stick on that thing was really easy to break).

Too bad you really can't source any hardware these days. That, and batteries past the 20Whr mark tend to be quite bulky...

[GOD RAYS ON ULTRA™]

Just cancel and wait for the steam deck 2. All they did is update their store page on the matter when they should've sent out notifications about the SSD.

Pretty damn shady if you ask me. Like everyone visits the store page or even check the forums every day. I know I don't, I have a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ life with family, bills, job I'm not peeking at the store every day or lurking the threads like some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mole.

[nullable]

Legion eredeti hozzászólása:

You probably won't notice a downgrade is not a good defense.

It can be a defense, because you're claiming the substitution is going to cause you harm or dages. OK, so you would have to demonstrate that in concrete terms. What is the harm, how significant is the damage. And was the intent to cause harm?

Calling any change you don't agree with bait and switch, doesn't necessarily create harm or damages.

And ultimately the problem is going to be that while the bandwidth differences look significant on paper, in real world uses the differences are going to be small, which makes any claimed damages small.

It may be a big deal for you personally, for whatever reasons and you can harp on every edge case or optimal performance scenario where you imagine the x4 drive would make significant difference. No one can dissuade you from that. But no one has to agree with your hyperbole either.

Legion eredeti hozzászólása:

You don't know what type of work I'll do on the deck. Further more they marketed it as a pc so when down grading the ssd to something that's only capable of half the speeds without notifying buyers is literally a bait and switch. No matter how you may feel about it. You may not care your ram is clocked slightly lower that someone else but I garuntee if you paid for ram you thought was 3200 and they swapped for something slower without notifying you, you'd say something. To me this is no different. What would have mad this not a bait and switch is everyone who reserved should've got an email or something to notify them when making a purchase that the specs had changed, but they ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ didn't. Steam did it hush hush deceptively secretly. I couldn't care 1 ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ bit if it only effects file transfers and only .001% that's change should've been disclosed to me. ♥♥♥♥ steam for acting like all the other dishonest pos retailers.

Sure, they could have emailed everyone. But on the other hand Valve doesn't need to inform users about every hardware revision when that revision doesn't affect performance or functionality.

But in this specific instance of who's opinion is right, that would be for a court to decide. Was this change significant enough that users should have been informed? Maybe. If it was something like the analog sticks being revised? Maybe not.

And you say it was all secret, and it wasn't. Valve added the information to a publicly visible website that countless people saw, and gaming news reported on it. That's how you know about it. Secret would have been they said nothing anywhere and users discovered in tear downs that they had Gen3 x2 SSD's and Valve never mentioned it anywhere. It wasn't a secret and Valve didn't make a big fuss about it because they didn't think it was fuss worthy. Your disagreement may not change their informed opinion.

Not approving of the way you found out about it may not be a significant argument either.

[Crashed]

Did they say NVMe or NVME x4 in their advertising materials?

I would think 2230 NVMe drives would be slower than 2280 sized drives due to less room for controller circuitry and perhaps greater likelihood of the memory cells being QLC.

[invision2212]

Crashed eredeti hozzászólása:

Did they say NVMe or NVME x4 in their advertising materials?

I would think 2230 NVMe drives would be slower than 2280 sized drives due to less room for controller circuitry and perhaps greater likelihood of the memory cells being QLC.

they actually arent slower, i installed a 512gb into the 64gb steam deck and bench marked it at 3400mb/sec which is as fast as my pc's

[Crashed]

invision2212 eredeti hozzászólása:

Crashed eredeti hozzászólása:

Did they say NVMe or NVME x4 in their advertising materials?

I would think 2230 NVMe drives would be slower than 2280 sized drives due to less room for controller circuitry and perhaps greater likelihood of the memory cells being QLC.

they actually arent slower, i installed a 512gb into the 64gb steam deck and bench marked it at 3400mb/sec which is as fast as my pc's

So x2 would cut the performance in half then. How's write performance?

[invision2212]

Crashed eredeti hozzászólása:

invision2212 eredeti hozzászólása:

they actually arent slower, i installed a 512gb into the 64gb steam deck and bench marked it at 3400mb/sec which is as fast as my pc's

So x2 would cut the performance in half then. How's write performance?

heres a link to screenshot i took of the benchmark

https://imgbb.com/hVJRMDC

[xSOSxHawkens]

Legion eredeti hozzászólása:

Steam did it hush hush deceptively secretly. I couldn't care 1 ****ing bit if it only effects file transfers and only .001% that's change should've been disclosed to me. **** steam for acting like all the other dishonest pos retailers.

Just gonna say, despite all the vitriol in the thread, this is pretty much true:

https://www.newsdirectory3.com/steam-deck-secretly-downgrades-hardware-ssd-from-x4-to-pcie-3-0-x2/

https://latestgamestories.com/2022/06/30/steam-deck-downgrade-vavle-is-secretly-changing-specifications-of-some-models/"

https://kotaku.com/steam-deck-valve-specs-components-ssd-downgrade-pc-1849126677


As clearly shown, they *did* change the specs without notification to customers, they *did* to this to orders already in place without notification of any kind, and at *BEST* they seem to have intentionally provided the bare minimum likely legally required notification in such a way that even major publications who purpose is to report on Tech News were unaware.

Facts.

Also:

https://sdpict.com/valve-says-steam-decks-ssd-change-impacts-performance-only-in-extremely-uncommon-cases/

Valve themselves have admitted the change can and does impact performance. They claim that its only in extremely uncommon cases" but that does not negate that such cases do exist, and that Valve themselves already concede that the change is a reduction in those areas of performance.


_______________________

Not saying OP's arm-chair lawyering will pay off, just pointing out that his major points:

A) that they were deceptive and or secretive
B) that they did not reasonably notify people who had already placed purchase orders
C) that the change does have an impact in specific use cases

*ARE* all supported by the known facts at this time.

This may not hold up in a court, but we have all seen companies sued for and settle over less. This in the long run likely wont be any different. Valve botched it hard and could and should have done better in how they handled it.

What *IS* clear, is that even if they were to win in court on technicalities, Valve acted poorly and in bad faith against the consumers here. Its a bit silly to see people defend that just because they want to rip on the OP's armchair lawyering.

[xSOSxHawkens]

For clarity, I don't think its a big deal performance wise, and have actually gotten on the reservation list post x2 change. I am unhappy about the change and would have liked the faster drive but I know going in what I will get.

That said I understand and support people who feel wronged by Valve in this. They were. They expected one thing and are getting another with little if any way to know which is which. That is wrong. I am glad I didn't pre-order sooner else I *would* be more upset and *would* feel wronged. As is I feel sympathy for those who are affected and see shame on Valve for how they have handled it all.

[nullable]

So in essence your and OP's negative opinions are right, and other people having more permissive opinions are wrong?

If real world performance in most use cases isn't really impacted and some of us feel it's not a big deal, then our opinions don't matter? Only someone who has a strong emotional reaction has a legitimate opinion?

[xSOSxHawkens]

Snakub Plissken eredeti hozzászólása:

So in essence your and OP's negative opinions are right, and other people having more permissive opinions are wrong?

I mean... I kept it pretty light on opinions. I also am (so far outside of the benchmark dude) the *only* one to provide backing sources.

Outside of finding it silly people are defending this stuff all of my main post (the long first one) is factual and backed by sources.

You think otherwise? Prove your views. I have mine. Its called having sourcing.

I sourced out supporting evidence that the facts support OP's viewpoint.

That it.

[nullable]

xSOSxHawkens eredeti hozzászólása:

Snakub Plissken eredeti hozzászólása:

So in essence your and OP's negative opinions are right, and other people having more permissive opinions are wrong?

I mean... I kept it pretty light on opinions. I also am (so far outside of the benchmark dude) the *only* one to provide backing sources.

SSD Gen3 x2 and x4 performance isn't some unknown that needs to be proved out. And the Steam Deck isn't some magic machine where those drives would perform differently.

And lots of us have years of experience across every tier of SSD performance.

But sure, lets look at some benchmarks. While it's not specific to Gen3 x2 vs Gen 3 x4, https://www.techspot.com/review/2116-storage-speed-game-loading/ it does cover Gen4, Gen3 and SATAIII and the difference between Gen3 and Gen4 is twice as large between Gen3 x2 and Gen3 x4, for prespective.

Now the way I read this is outside of benchmarks the performance difference between Gen3 and Gen4 is pretty marginal. And even Gen4 vs SATAIII isn't shocking even though in benchmarks the Gen4 drive would be over ten times faster in some tests.

So if someone wants to cherry pick the crystal disk results. If they want to say "but there is a difference". If they want to harp on technicalities and say I paid for a console that would load Borderlands 3 in 17 seconds, not 18 seconds. If they want to confirm their feelings that they've been wronged, they can do that with this page.

But the way I read these tests is the difference is pretty marginal most of the time. And that's not going to change when discussing Gen3 x2 vs Gen3 x4 specifically.

If you ask my professional, expert opinion, crying about the SSD is crying over technicalities, not real world performance. If the technicalities are the only detail that matters, then sure Valve is wrong. If the practical reality is what matters, it's not a big deal, period.

[Legion]

Snakub Plissken eredeti hozzászólása:

xSOSxHawkens eredeti hozzászólása:

I mean... I kept it pretty light on opinions. I also am (so far outside of the benchmark dude) the *only* one to provide backing sources.

SSD Gen3 x2 and x4 performance isn't some unknown that needs to be proved out. And the Steam Deck isn't some magic machine where those drives would perform differently.

And lots of us have years of experience across every tier of SSD performance.

But sure, lets look at some benchmarks. While it's not specific to Gen3 x2 vs Gen 3 x4, https://www.techspot.com/review/2116-storage-speed-game-loading/ it does cover Gen4, Gen3 and SATAIII and the difference between Gen3 and Gen4 is twice as large between Gen3 x2 and Gen3 x4, for prespective.

Now the way I read this is outside of benchmarks the performance difference between Gen3 and Gen4 is pretty marginal. And even Gen4 vs SATAIII isn't shocking even though in benchmarks the Gen4 drive would be over ten times faster in some tests.

So if someone wants to cherry pick the crystal disk results. If they want to say "but there is a difference". If they want to harp on technicalities and say I paid for a console that would load Borderlands 3 in 17 seconds, not 18 seconds. If they want to confirm their feelings that they've been wronged, they can do that with this page.

But the way I read these tests is the difference is pretty marginal most of the time. And that's not going to change when discussing Gen3 x2 vs Gen3 x4 specifically.

If you ask my professional, expert opinion, crying about the SSD is crying over technicalities, not real world performance. If the technicalities are the only detail that matters, then sure Valve is wrong. If the practical reality is what matters, it's not a big deal, period.

From what I gather you are saying is there is a level of being screwed you are ok with, and I'm saying I don't want to be screwed even a little. I think I hear you.