good upgrade from an i5 8600k

[stoneyoda]

I5 8600k
gtx 1070
16gb 3200mhz

i know the GPU could use an upgrade
but i'm only looking for CPU upgrades
AMD or Intel. whatever is the better deal.

i mainly play RUST and other Heavily single thread games.

budget is whatever.

[stoneyoda]

引用自 ☥ - CJ -：

Is your CPU hitting 100% usage in RUST?

nah, but RUST only uses 1-2 cores mainly, with windows dynamically spreading the load across the cores, i know i'm CPU bound as my GPU doesn't hit 100% usage
and changing resolution or graphical settings doesn't make my FPS go higher

RUST is a unity game and mainly relies on singlethread performance
(IPC/how strong each core is)

[stoneyoda]

引用自 Cloudy Canadian：

With a motherboard BIOS update you could get away with upgrading to an i9-9900K, although you'll have to make sure to have decent cooling. But now that it is older, you most likely will have to get one second hand if you want a good price. Honestly though you are better off getting a better GPU for gaming performance, unless you are doing a bunch of multi tasking like streaming while gaming too.

i'v been considering the i9 9900k but it's pretty expensive in canada
and isn't really a "big" leap in terms of singlethread performance
witch is what im mainly wanting as rust is very IPC dependent
i don't mind getting a new mobo and ram kit if i can get a really good leap in singlethread
performance. i want to hit 144fps all the time
(my GPU in RUST isn't the bottleneck, my CPU is)

also i have a cooler master 240m water cooler, so cooling isn't an issue.

[stoneyoda]

引用自 _I_：

8600k should be able to handle any game you can throw at it
how is the cooling?

12600k would be a nice jump, but needs new mobo and maybe ram

i have a cooler master 240m rad so temps are quite low, i run the i5 8600k at 5.0ghz
with no issues with max temps in MSI after burner reading 65c
and the mobo i have is the "ROG STRIX Z370-E GAMING"

link : https://rog.asus.com/motherboards/rog-strix/rog-strix-z370-e-gaming-model/

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

引用自 It's Almost As If I Cared.：

引用自 ☥ - CJ -：

Is your CPU hitting 100% usage in RUST?

nah, but RUST only uses 1-2 cores mainly, with windows dynamically spreading the load across the cores, i know i'm CPU bound as my GPU doesn't hit 100% usage
and changing resolution or graphical settings doesn't make my FPS go higher

RUST is a unity game and mainly relies on singlethread performance
(IPC/how strong each core is)

If I remember correctly there guide to for using all your cores, which I suggest look into that, so if it only using 2 cores, you can easily see bumping to 6 core usage may massively bump performance, as well ensure don't have vsync on, as that also restrict FPS to your display HZ.

Even if went out of your way to grab best CPU, is still playing with 1 - 2 cores, your performance isn't going to shoot up as you think, more like maybe up to 20 fps over what had my guess, but still wouldn't get 100% GPU usage due to limiting to use 1/3 of the CPU resource. So really look into getting the game using all cores if you're able to on rust.

[mtono]

this is what i would buy for sure..96 mb level 3 cache, if money doesnt mean a thing to you...

https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-7-5800x3d

[stoneyoda]

引用自 Dr.Shadowds 🐉：

引用自 It's Almost As If I Cared.：

nah, but RUST only uses 1-2 cores mainly, with windows dynamically spreading the load across the cores, i know i'm CPU bound as my GPU doesn't hit 100% usage
and changing resolution or graphical settings doesn't make my FPS go higher

RUST is a unity game and mainly relies on singlethread performance
(IPC/how strong each core is)

If I remember correctly there guide to for using all your cores, which I suggest look into that, so if it only using 2 cores, you can easily see bumping to 6 core usage may massively bump performance, as well ensure don't have vsync on, as that also restrict FPS to your display HZ.

Even if went out of your way to grab best CPU, is still playing with 1 - 2 cores, your performance isn't going to shoot up as you think, more like maybe up to 20 fps over what had my guess, but still wouldn't get 100% GPU usage due to limiting to use 1/3 of the CPU resource. So really look into getting the game using all cores if you're able to on rust.

it's baked into the Unity engine, i can't make it use all my cores.
even with forced launch commands the game still vastly benefits from singlethread performance.
anyways, have a recommendation for a good upgrade on singlethread performance
(AMD or Intel)

[stoneyoda]

引用自 mtono：

this is what i would buy for sure..96 mb level 3 cache, if money doesnt mean a thing to you...

https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-7-5800x3d

ill check it out, thanks.

[r.linder]

If your average framerate and frametimes aren't a problem, then there's no reason to upgrade the CPU. I went from a 3900X to a 10850K, saw substantial gains in other games, but not really in Rust because contrary to what you think, it's not that heavy on the CPU until you start placing literal dozens of turrets, which no CPU can handle without drops, period. You're wanting to spend big money on a CPU upgrade that you don't even need, especially if you're going to take a lot more time in upgrading your GPU.

100% usage is never a good thing, the most you want is 99% for the GPU and way less than that for your CPU, since constantly pegging 100% in either means there's absolutely zero headroom for that part. Having less than 99% usage on the GPU doesn't equate to a bottleneck from the CPU, it merely means that your GPU isn't being worked that hard, doesn't mean it's underperforming. People misunderstand what usage means and what matters.
A better indicator of an underperforming part is when it's barely using any power, not boosting as high as it should, etc.

I have friends that I play Rust with from time to time that have considerably weaker hardware than I do, weaker than your system, and they're happy with what they're getting. Learn from them.

[stoneyoda]

引用自 r.linder：

If your average framerate and frametimes aren't a problem, then there's no reason to upgrade the CPU. I went from a 3900X to a 10850K, saw substantial gains in other games, but not really in Rust because contrary to what you think, it's not that heavy on the CPU until you start placing literal dozens of turrets, which no CPU can handle without drops, period. You're wanting to spend big money on a CPU upgrade that you don't even need, especially if you're going to take a lot more time in upgrading your GPU.

100% usage is never a good thing, the most you want is 99% for the GPU and way less than that for your CPU, since constantly pegging 100% in either means there's absolutely zero headroom for that part. Having less than 99% usage on the GPU doesn't equate to a bottleneck from the CPU, it merely means that your GPU isn't being worked that hard, doesn't mean it's underperforming. People misunderstand what usage means and what matters.
A better indicator of an underperforming part is when it's barely using any power, not boosting as high as it should, etc.

I have friends that I play Rust with from time to time that have considerably weaker hardware than I do, weaker than your system, and they're happy with what they're getting. Learn from them.

my CPU isn't at 100%
RUST doesn't use all 6 cores.
it uses 2 with windows dynamically spreading the load across all the cores.
All Unity games do this, it's baked into the engine.
RUST and all other unity games benefit from singlethread performance....
they don't care about cores much at all.

also im not saying im "unhappy" , i have almost 3k clocked into RUST
and enjoy the game on my current hardware.
i'm still getting 100fps+ 99% of the time
i just want get 144fps+ instead
idc about the cost, i just would like a smoother experience

lastly, i'm not trying to be rude
but yes, if GPU and RAM aren't at 100%/maxed out it's your CPU that is the bottleneck
the CPU doesn't need to hit 100% to bottleneck in games.
i am CPU bound, and what you said about power draw and boosting speeds
isn't correct in this situation.

[Illusion of Progress]

At the end of the day, if you're unhappy with your performance, your best options if you need more single-core performance would an Intel 12th generation, Ryzen 5 5800X3D (variable), and Zen 3, roughly in that order, with the 5800X3D being an unknown as it's either above the 12th generation or comparable to Zen 3, depending on the task.

After that is the Intel 10th/11th generation, then Zen 2, which is similar to yours in single-core performance (higher actual IPC but less clock speed, so potentially less overall if you're at 5 GHz). All of these would be too low compared to what you got/too old to consider new today, really.

If you don't need more cores, a Core i5 12x00 or Ryzen 5 5600X are about your best options in that order. The 12400 is typically a phenomenal value, but I'm not sure if it has a small enough performance difference worth the 12600K to make it worth choosing over it, especially if you're already on an overclocked CPU. The 12600K might be more worth the extra in that case. The Ryzen 5 5800X (despite offering more cores than you may need) could be faster, or not. I'm not sure how it behaves in Rust, but from an earlier post, it seems like it's one of those games where, despite being a CPU heavy game, it's just so heavy even on the fastest and" might not be worth a change, even if they are faster". I'm not familiar with Rust but it sounds like Minecraft in that regard. There are conditions in that game that are so heavy it'd make something theoretically like four times faster in single-threaded STILL be a possible limitation. If you're willing t spend on it though, out of what's available today, those are your best options.

[r.linder]

引用自 It's Almost As If I Cared.：

引用自 r.linder：

If your average framerate and frametimes aren't a problem, then there's no reason to upgrade the CPU. I went from a 3900X to a 10850K, saw substantial gains in other games, but not really in Rust because contrary to what you think, it's not that heavy on the CPU until you start placing literal dozens of turrets, which no CPU can handle without drops, period. You're wanting to spend big money on a CPU upgrade that you don't even need, especially if you're going to take a lot more time in upgrading your GPU.

100% usage is never a good thing, the most you want is 99% for the GPU and way less than that for your CPU, since constantly pegging 100% in either means there's absolutely zero headroom for that part. Having less than 99% usage on the GPU doesn't equate to a bottleneck from the CPU, it merely means that your GPU isn't being worked that hard, doesn't mean it's underperforming. People misunderstand what usage means and what matters.
A better indicator of an underperforming part is when it's barely using any power, not boosting as high as it should, etc.

I have friends that I play Rust with from time to time that have considerably weaker hardware than I do, weaker than your system, and they're happy with what they're getting. Learn from them.

my CPU isn't at 100%
RUST doesn't use all 6 cores.
it uses 2 with windows dynamically spreading the load across all the cores.
All Unity games do this, it's baked into the engine.
RUST and all other unity games benefit from singlethread performance....
they don't care about cores much at all.

also im not saying im "unhappy" , i have almost 3k clocked into RUST
and enjoy the game on my current hardware.
i'm still getting 100fps+ 99% of the time
i just want get 144fps+ instead
idc about the cost, i just would like a smoother experience

lastly, i'm not trying to be rude
but yes, if GPU and RAM aren't at 100%/maxed out it's your CPU that is the bottleneck
the CPU doesn't need to hit 100% to bottleneck in games.
i am CPU bound, and what you said about power draw and boosting speeds
isn't correct in this situation.

You're not going to get 144+ FPS just by upgrading your CPU, that's a pipe dream. You just HOPE that it's all on your CPU, but you're completely ignoring the fact that you have a GTX 1070, which at this point is basically entry level and can't handle well in games like Cyberpunk 2077 without squealing in agony, and it doesn't support newer technologies like DLSS, and FSR support isn't terribly common when DLSS is supported, as it's mostly NVIDIA-centric titles that end up only using DLSS.

I'm running an 10850K @ 5 GHz and a 2080 Ti, only getting anywhere near 144 FPS at 1440p pretty much max settings(not factoring in big bases) because of DLSS, with a big base in view it can drop below 100. You want 144 FPS? Get a GPU that supports DLSS, problem solved.

Back when I had a 3900X with other specs the same, I was getting more or less the same results at 1080p, and the 3900X is in a similar league single-core performance wise to the 9700K, which is just behind the 9900K. Much of the gain going over to Intel was because Zen-based architecture and CPU design doesn't always play a lot of games as well as monolithic Intel processors do, there's too much latency, especially with 3rd gen R9.

[stoneyoda]

引用自 r.linder：

引用自 It's Almost As If I Cared.：

my CPU isn't at 100%
RUST doesn't use all 6 cores.
it uses 2 with windows dynamically spreading the load across all the cores.
All Unity games do this, it's baked into the engine.
RUST and all other unity games benefit from singlethread performance....
they don't care about cores much at all.

also im not saying im "unhappy" , i have almost 3k clocked into RUST
and enjoy the game on my current hardware.
i'm still getting 100fps+ 99% of the time
i just want get 144fps+ instead
idc about the cost, i just would like a smoother experience

lastly, i'm not trying to be rude
but yes, if GPU and RAM aren't at 100%/maxed out it's your CPU that is the bottleneck
the CPU doesn't need to hit 100% to bottleneck in games.
i am CPU bound, and what you said about power draw and boosting speeds
isn't correct in this situation.

You're not going to get 144+ FPS just by upgrading your CPU, that's a pipe dream. You just HOPE that it's all on your CPU, but you're completely ignoring the fact that you have a GTX 1070, which at this point is basically entry level and can't handle well in games like Cyberpunk 2077 without squealing in agony.

I'm running an 10850K @ 5 GHz and a 2080 Ti, only getting anywhere near 144 FPS at 1440p pretty much max settings(not factoring in big bases) because of DLSS, with a big base in view it can drop below 100. You want 144 FPS? Get a GPU that supports DLSS, problem solved.

Back when I had a 3900X with other specs the same, I was getting more or less the same results at 1080p, and the 3900X is in a similar league single-core performance wise to the 9700K.

my GPU sits at 60% at 100fps+
the GPU is fine.... i am CPU bound in RUST
i don't understand your fixation on the GTX 1070... and
saying it'll struggle in games like cyberpunk
i play RUST...
i don't care about other games, i need higher IPC for more frames in the game RUST.

any ways, i'm gonna get a 12900k or one of the new 5000 series ryzens

[stoneyoda]

引用自 Illusion of Progress：

At the end of the day, if you're unhappy with your performance, your best options if you need more single-core performance would an Intel 12th generation, Ryzen 5 5800X3D (variable), and Zen 3, roughly in that order, with the 5800X3D being an unknown as it's either above the 12th generation or comparable to Zen 3, depending on the task.

After that is the Intel 10th/11th generation, then Zen 2, which is similar to yours in single-core performance (higher actual IPC but less clock speed, so potentially less overall if you're at 5 GHz). All of these would be too low compared to what you got/too old to consider new today, really.

If you don't need more cores, a Core i5 12x00 or Ryzen 5 5600X are about your best options in that order. The 12400 is typically a phenomenal value, but I'm not sure if it has a small enough performance difference worth the 12600K to make it worth choosing over it, especially if you're already on an overclocked CPU. The 12600K might be more worth the extra in that case. The Ryzen 5 5800X (despite offering more cores than you may need) could be faster, or not. I'm not sure how it behaves in Rust, but from an earlier post, it seems like it's one of those games where, despite being a CPU heavy game, it's just so heavy even on the fastest and" might not be worth a change, even if they are faster". I'm not familiar with Rust but it sounds like Minecraft in that regard. There are conditions in that game that are so heavy it'd make something theoretically like four times faster in single-threaded STILL be a possible limitation. If you're willing t spend on it though, out of what's available today, those are your best options.

thank you, finally someone who gets that i need IPC for better performance (similar to how minecraft works) in RUST. i appreciate your help and understanding of my initial question

[r.linder]

引用自 It's Almost As If I Cared.：

引用自 r.linder：

You're not going to get 144+ FPS just by upgrading your CPU, that's a pipe dream. You just HOPE that it's all on your CPU, but you're completely ignoring the fact that you have a GTX 1070, which at this point is basically entry level and can't handle well in games like Cyberpunk 2077 without squealing in agony.

I'm running an 10850K @ 5 GHz and a 2080 Ti, only getting anywhere near 144 FPS at 1440p pretty much max settings(not factoring in big bases) because of DLSS, with a big base in view it can drop below 100. You want 144 FPS? Get a GPU that supports DLSS, problem solved.

Back when I had a 3900X with other specs the same, I was getting more or less the same results at 1080p, and the 3900X is in a similar league single-core performance wise to the 9700K.

my GPU sits at 60% at 100fps+
the GPU is fine.... i am CPU bound in RUST
i don't understand your fixation on the GTX 1070... and
saying it'll struggle in games like cyberpunk
i play RUST...
i don't care about other games, i need higher IPC for more frames in the game RUST.

any ways, i'm gonna get a 12900k or one of the new 5000 series ryzens

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS1upjfGSE0

Same CPU, faster GPU, higher GPU usage. I told you, you're mistaken, and you're going to dump hundreds of dollars into a game that just had an update that completely changed the recoil system when you don't even need to by your description. You're chasing a high that you're never going to be satisfied with because you're obsessed with numbers that mean nothing. Save your money or put it towards a better GPU that actually will get you 144+ FPS. Just changing the CPU won't give you that, the 8600K isn't that much slower unless you throw every dollar you have into getting the latest flagship and overclocking the hell out of it with a custom loop, but it's not cost effective and it's completely unnecessary, especially for Rust. You can waste your money and still get domed by a kid running the game with a Sandy Bridge i5 and a GTX 1050 Ti.

[Illusion of Progress]

引用自 It's Almost As If I Cared.：

thank you, finally someone who gets that i need IPC for better performance (similar to how minecraft works) in RUST. i appreciate your help and understanding of my initial question

Thanks for the feedback, but I want to repeat I'm not familiar with Rust... at all. I was just giving a general hierarchy for how the generations typically compare. Rust be a case like Minecraft where you throw 50% more IPC at it, and it still just... returns low results, just maybe slightly "less lower" than before. Just emphasizing this since I don't want to come across as promising it's "worth it" in this particular game. r.linder sounds rather familiar with the game. But you'll have to decide if it's worth it, typically it is just one game is what makes us decide "I want more".