Ray Tracing is NVIDIA Hype

[temps]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VGwHoSrIEU

Lol most people can't tell the difference between games with ray tracing and games without it. (See the video for proof)

It's funny because I've seen a lot of threads in forums for my games where people are like "BUT DOES IT HAVE RAY TRACING?!?!? I WANT RAY TRACING BECAUSE I SPENT EXTRA FOR AN RTX GPU!"

[Bad 💀 Motha]

AMD is OK, for a lower budget 1080p GPU, sure.
I guess if that's all you care about.
Might as well just play on consoles at that point.
AMD has their own Ray-Tracing. But game makers aren't bothering with theirs.

[temps]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Dr StrangeGlove:

Long term, gaming will be tray tracing the whole scene with some very very good AI based upscaling. It would make game development much easier, and hopefully out of the hands of companies like electonic arts.
It is improving. I very much hope it is NOT eventually controlled by Nvidia.

This sounds really nice to me, except the part about upscaling. As stated earlier, the upscaling we have available today reduces the visual quality when compared with rendering the image normally, particularly when in-game motion is involved.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Bad 💀 Motha:

AMD is OK, for a lower budget 1080p GPU, sure.
I guess if that's all you care about.

The AMD 6800 XT GPU has better performance than the RTX 3080, assuming you aren't playing with ray tracing (which most gamers can't see anyway in most cases) or DLSS (which reduces the visual quality of your game).

AMD is the better choice for GPUs.

[UserNotFound]

I won't comment on the AMD/nVidia debate, but I'd say this:
GPU today, even the most powerful like the upcoming RTX 3090 Ti, aren't powerful enough for many graphically intensive game with RT (not RTX which is an nVidia moniker) enabled unless some sort of upscaling help (like DLSS). That's why I'd gone for an RX 6900 XT which is a rasterization beast. I'd wait past at least two more iterations of AMD/nVidia card before I'd expect to see AAA games with RT and all bells and whistles enabled at 4K 120Hz (native) or better.

Right now, my RX 6900 XT handles all the games I've thrown at it at 3840x1080 (49" 32:9) and I'm expecting the card to tide me over till 2023 at the very earliest. I don't care for RT now as I feel the tech needs to get better, and GPU's need to get much more powerful to handle AAA RT games natively at 4K with good framerates (That's when tech like DLSS and FSR become unnecessary).

[Jamebonds1]

Just because it is more expensive GPU and monitor, doesn't mean it is good. Specification and quality are very important.

That goes the same for $1000 Metcal with unreliable soldiering station VS $300 Hakko with more reliable soldiering station.

[Jamebonds1]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ZeekAncient:

I am deleting my posts because I can tell this debate is pointless to have and no one will look at the actual facts, framerates, reviews, whatever. There is no point to be in this debate.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I have many extracurricular in my real life. PC, board repair and money manner are one of them related to this post.

[Jamebonds1]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ZeekAncient:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Jamebonds1:

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I have many extracurricular in my real life. PC, board repair and money manner are one of them related to this post.

What is your point? I have a degree in Computer and Networking Technologies and work in IT.

My point is people shouldn't waste money if thing are not broke or not better in every way.

[ZeekAncient]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Jamebonds1:

Początkowo opublikowane przez ZeekAncient:

What is your point? I have a degree in Computer and Networking Technologies and work in IT.

My point is people shouldn't waste money if thing are not broke or not better in every way.

Yes you are right. No my bad, lol. Like I said, I had a long day and am tired. But I deleted my posts because I realize that I do not want to be part of this debate. I like Nvidia and AMD equally and it could go either way. Just because I have an Nvidia card, I found myself saying things like Nvidia is better than AMD, and yada, yada...only reason was is because I didn't like what Temps said about DLSS.

I actually think DLSS is great tech, especially at 4K. And I find it doesn't diminish the actual image from native whatsoever. I wouldn't want to live without DLSS after using it. But again, I am sorry if I offended you or anyone. It is late and have had a stressful day, lol.

[temps]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ZeekAncient:

Początkowo opublikowane przez temps:

This sounds really nice to me, except the part about upscaling. As stated earlier, the upscaling we have available today reduces the visual quality when compared with rendering the image normally, particularly when in-game motion is involved.



The AMD 6800 XT GPU has better performance than the RTX 3080, assuming you aren't playing with ray tracing (which most gamers can't see anyway in most cases) or DLSS (which reduces the visual quality of your game).

AMD is the better choice for GPUs.

You obviously have an AMD card and can't use DLSS.

Lol nope I'm on an RTX 3070, which I unfortunately had to get because the superior AMD GPUs weren't available in the shortage. Try again..

Początkowo opublikowane przez ZeekAncient:

Look, Ray Tracing IS a real thing and some games DO implement it well and when they do, AMD doesn't even stand a chance.

Ray tracing doesn't really matter because the average person can't see the difference most of the time, as the Linus Tech Tips video says in the OP.

Początkowo opublikowane przez ZeekAncient:

Pretty much every Nvidia RTX card outperforms AMD cards with ray tracing turned on

Again... which doesn't matter because as Linus says the average user can't tell the difference whether ray tracing is on or off. Lol.

Początkowo opublikowane przez ZeekAncient:

and DLSS is the best implementation of AI upscaling I have ever seen.

The best implementation of AI upscaling that still ultimately produces lower quality visuals in your games, particularly when motion is involved.

Początkowo opublikowane przez ZeekAncient:

The results are you can't even tell the difference between the DLSS setting and the native resolution.

And the average user can't tell the difference whether ray tracing is on or off in most cases either, as proven by the Linus Tech Tips video linked in the OP.

Początkowo opublikowane przez ZeekAncient:

AMD FX super resolution or whatever it is called is not even close to as good as DLSS

None of which matters because a natively rendered image is of superior quality to an image produced with DLSS anyway, particularly when motion is involved.

Początkowo opublikowane przez ZeekAncient:

Look, to make a statement like where all you do is play video games, yada, yada, yada...and don't care about Ray Tracing then AMD is clearly better is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

You're just asserting that something is true without providing any supporting evidence for why that's the case.

Początkowo opublikowane przez ZeekAncient:

Pretty much every publication out there will list a current Nvidia card as the best current GPU you can get.

Reminds me of the Hardware Unboxed scandal where NVIDIA basically revealed how they bribe gaming journalists with video cards in exchange for pro-NVIDIA media coverage...lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIvuWdxClSs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia#Hardware_Unboxed_controversy

Początkowo opublikowane przez ZeekAncient:

And I am not gonna say that AMD is no good, because they are, but when someone makes a statement and says AMD is clearly better....boils my blood.

Why get so emotional about it? Are you upset about overpaying for an RTX card?

Początkowo opublikowane przez ZeekAncient:

Look I play at 4K, and when I look at benchmarks for GPUs, I see that the Nvidia card, with Ray Tracing and DLSS turned off, usually beats out their AMD counterpart.

https://youtu.be/jLVGL7aAYgY?t=1735

At 28:55, Gamers Nexus says: "At 4K, AMD ... it's hit and miss, where they're either roughly in parity or within a couple FPS to a point where it frankly doesn't matter... you just buy whichever one has an extra feature that you want... or whichever one is available or cheaper..."

And indeed, the AMD cards are cheaper, and thus the better value. The MSRP of the 6800 XT is ~$650 vs ~$700 for the RTX 3080. He also says the AMD GPUs have stronger performance in some other scenarios such as 1440p high refresh gaming, again, assuming DLSS and ray tracing is turned off.

Początkowo opublikowane przez ZeekAncient:

Then you throw in DLSS and ray tracing ability and AMD doesn't stand a chance. So how is AMD cleary the better choice?

Because it costs less and has better performance in rasterization, so long as DLSS and ray tracing are turned off. Throw in the extra 10% or 15% performance boost from AMD features like SAM which people get from pairing the AMD card with their Ryzen CPUs, and that makes the AMD an even more compelling value.

[Lord Flashheart]

Początkowo opublikowane przez temps:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Dr StrangeGlove:

Long term, gaming will be tray tracing the whole scene with some very very good AI based upscaling. It would make game development much easier, and hopefully out of the hands of companies like electonic arts.
It is improving. I very much hope it is NOT eventually controlled by Nvidia.

This sounds really nice to me, except the part about upscaling. As stated earlier, the upscaling we have available today reduces the visual quality when compared with rendering the image normally, particularly when in-game motion is involved.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Bad 💀 Motha:

AMD is OK, for a lower budget 1080p GPU, sure.
I guess if that's all you care about.

The AMD 6800 XT GPU has better performance than the RTX 3080, assuming you aren't playing with ray tracing (which most gamers can't see anyway in most cases) or DLSS (which reduces the visual quality of your game).

AMD is the better choice for GPUs.

When I was talking out upscaling with raytracing, I did not mean as it stands now.
Both are slowly and gradually improving it seems, by both hardware and software improvements.

So at some point, likely not soon, raytracing an entire scene could be possible. As for losing quality through upscaliing, it is game dependent and subjective.

[Monk]

Ray tracing, especially in reflections really brings an extra level to the immersion of a game and if you then disable them it becomes instantly clear that something is missing abd not quite right.

Unfortunately, this is very demanding and kind of needs a 3090 to do it justice unless you want to drop your fps, settings or resolution into the toilet.

Dlss quality is straight up black magic it even adds in extra detail lost at native and looks near identical to native while giving a great fps boost, other dlss settings do start to drop the resolution more than I like and don't work as well.

AMD make great cards, then always manage to shoot themselves in the foot with dumb decisions and questionable drivers.

Case in point, memory selection, the vega 56 and 64 could of wiped the floor with the 1070 and 1080 if they hadn't gone and chucked the insanely expensive hbm2 memory on them, with regular gddr5 they would if been a good £100-200 cheaper than Nvidia's offerings with the same performance.

The new 6000 series cards, their memory is too slow handicapping the performance, they work great on esport style games where there giant cache helps alot, but, kind of falls flat a bit more in big AAA or at 4k, thst and, well, I think if we are being honest can all agree their drivers could do with improvements.

Then you get the 'extras' nvidia offers over AMD, be it dlss2.0, raytracing, ansel, their streaming tech, encoding etc, it all adds up to a better overall package right now.

If you can afford the extra, gsync is the better tech saying otherwise is an outright lie, but, you do have to pay for it, which is fresyncs big bonus and it is nearly as good.

So, there are my views on it, I'm pretty neutral in what to go for, I say buy the best you can afford, right now, nvidia is simply on top, AMD is making gains however.

Also, temps, you could sell that 3070 for double what you paid if you got it at msrp and pick up a 6900xt any day of the week right now, if you really want to swap to AMD that is abd as most of your argument seems fueled by fanboy-ism, I don't see why you don't.

[Prof. Insanity]

Ray Tracing is something that I consider as smoothing up the game. After some hours of gaming it's something I don't even realize anymore. It's all fine in my opinion and I personally enjoy the experience, but it's very overrated in many games.

[Monk]

As I've said, it's something you notice alot more, if after a couple hours, you then disable it, everything just doesn't look as good any more, and, lacking, it's very odd, but surprising how much more it immerses you when you try turning it off, I recommend everyone who can, tries this in cp2077 or watchdogs legion as those 2 games throw all the raytracing at you and the reflections are everywhere.... Apart from in mirrors in cp2077 for some reason lol

[emoticorpse]

Lol, you seriously payed these prices for a gpu just to raytrace and find out it's a scam and now put it on your shelf?

[Monk]

Początkowo opublikowane przez emoticorpse:

Lol, you seriously payed these prices for a gpu just to raytrace and find out it's a scam and now put it on your shelf?

Let's be honest, as with most of the poop he says, chances are very high he usnt being entirely truthful, I mean, he makes many wild claims yet refuses to show any evidence of them.

I find it hard to believe anyone would spend the cash then refuse to use the far better product because they didn't like the look of it in their case, especially, when he chastise others for rgb etc to make their builds look nicer to them...

[Overseer]

It's not a scam but we are just not there yet. Its more experimental and devs do whatever they want. Outcomes vary. Some scenes actually look worse with ray tracing. But its the future considering how much more complex games become and automated lighting can help a lot.
Once this tech is established we will see crazy new games. I could imagine concepts where realtime reflections are a major part of a game. Real light could also make intense horror games, where a flashlight creates global illumination and gets reflected by mirrors.
But now? There hasn't been anything impressive. Devs seem to be focused on new eyecandy only to replace things we already have.