Why is AMD so popular

[Abu Hajaar]

I’m building a new PC and don’t understand why the new AMD processors are so popular. Their specs and performance isn’t any better than intel and from what I’m seeing they seem slightly more expensive, and sold out.

[Omega]

vadim の投稿を引用：

Omega の投稿を引用：

AMD64.

You right, adopting x86_64 was biggest Intel mistake. Even bigger than Netburst. Because the last mistake could be fixed, but the first one could not.
When AMD released its first 64-bit processor, no one needed it. I tested it under Linux because Windows didn't support it and was disappointed.
Intel at that moment had a unique chance to ditch the obsolete, overcomplicated x86 instruction set and make a new RISC-like one. They missed this chance and most likely in the next 10-15 years x86 will become history. And maybe faster.

Sounds like x86 in a nutshell. A dumpster fire. AMD64 fits right in.

[vadim]

Omega の投稿を引用：

Sounds like x86 in a nutshell. A dumpster fire. AMD64 fits right in.

Several years ago I wrote that x86 will start losing to ARM. Nobody believed and everyone laughed. It seems that you are too. Does it still sound as funny now?

[Omega]

vadim の投稿を引用：

Omega の投稿を引用：

Sounds like x86 in a nutshell. A dumpster fire. AMD64 fits right in.

Several years ago I wrote that x86 will start losing to ARM. Nobody believed and everyone laughed. It seems that you are too. Does it still sound as funny now?

I have been saying the same for a few years. CISC is not suited for consumer machines. You pay for a lot of functionality which most people never use.

[vadim]

Omega の投稿を引用：

I have been saying the same for a few years. CISC is not suited for consumer machines. You pay for a lot of functionality which most people never use.

Exactly. Two of the four rings of protection are not used; task switching is performed not by commands intended for this, but manually. A huge number of commands like strings are not used at all. And these are all little things in comparison with the main shortcomings of the command system. They could at least make the length of all commands the same to simplify prefetching.

[🦜Cloud Boy🦜]

AMD is popular because of its lower price. SIMPLE.
It was a strategy from AMD (Lisa Su).

AMD was always INFERIOR to intel until their RECENT Ryzen 5000 series launch. And the moment they caught-up with intel in gaming-performance, they raised the price, instantly.

[r.linder]

🌈Cloud Boy🌈 の投稿を引用：

AMD is popular because of its lower price. SIMPLE.
It was a strategy from AMD (Lisa Su).

AMD was always INFERIOR to intel until their RECENT Ryzen 5000 series launch. And the moment they caught-up with intel in gaming-performance, they raised the price, instantly.

The price increase is mostly because of supply and demand because they don't have enough of TSMC's 7nm wafers for everything that needs it, it's spread too thin, and everyone wants to buy AMD now because of the progress they've made and their new-found reputation of price/performance figures compared to Intel in the last 2 years. The supply issue will persist until the manufacturing of the new consoles slows down once the majority of people that want the new consoles have them, because TSMC firmly refuses to increase their stock for any company, likely since it'll lower the value of their wafers if they make too much.

RDNA and RDNA2 GPUs use it, Zen2 and Zen3 CPUs use it, and the new consoles use it, and the latter's manufacturing is what's taking up the most of it. If anything, you can blame the consoles for the price increase, because the MSRP for the 5600X is still only 50$ more than the 3600X but is considerably better regardless. The chances of even finding a Zen3 or RDNA2 GPU in a retail store or website is exceedingly rare because they're all being bought by miners and scalpers using bots, and when they are, they're massively marked up in price because MSRP is a recommendation/guideline, retail doesn't have to follow it. AMD would not force a massive price hike because the reason they were making so much money was because of the price/performance aspects of the Ryzen 5 3600 and Ryzen 7 3700X.

[xSOSxHawkens]

meh の投稿を引用：

... but this new gen is way heavier priced...

I may have to go grovelling back to Intel in a couple of years.

They raised the price by like 50 bucks dude...

Thats not "way heavier priced"...

Anything past 50 bucks is *NOT* AMD pricing nor is it AMD's fault, its a sad by product of all of the worlds chips coming from two compnaies (TSMC/Samsung) and everyone and everything from consoles, to computers, to IoT devices and memory needing parts from those lines.

FFS my man, its *so* bad that NV is dedicating *all* their TSMC prod space to the A100 compute units for data centers, and has trashed all plans to make more/any TSMC RTX cards, with the consumer cards being relegated entirely at this point to the lesser samsung fab.

There are just not enough waffers around for anyone for anything, and *that* is why AMD is hard to get. Combine the hard to get with high popularity *and* a genuinely good product and you get the unforutnant pricing we are seeing.

Only reason intel is "cheaper" r/n is because few want them, mainly due to their recent history over the last decade of crap pricing, crap customer treatment, and crap innovation on the consumer scale.

They literally hamstrung consumer PC's into 4c/8t chips and charged as much as they could *without* progressing despite being able to, all for no reason other than they didnt *have* to cuz AMD didnt push them to. Intel *can* and *does* (at times) make amazing tech, but they are a crap company. One that will intentionally hold back the industry for as long as it can to milk a profitable situation. That says allot about them...

[Magma Dragoon]

xSOSxHawkens の投稿を引用：

They literally hamstrung consumer PC's into 4c/8t chips and charged as much as they could *without* progressing despite being able to, all for no reason other than they didnt *have* to cuz AMD didnt push them to. Intel *can* and *does* (at times) make amazing tech, but they are a crap company. One that will intentionally hold back the industry for as long as it can to milk a profitable situation. That says allot about them...

I don't buy this. The quad core era wasn't Intel intentionally holding back and drip feeding marginal upgrades, it was the beginning of their slipping manufacturing leadership. They couldn't get the real new products out in time, they released refreshes of the same products because they had nothing else ready. This made the already modest leap from the previous product look even smaller. This culminated in the near complete cancellation with Broadwell.

Then they started all over again doing the same thing with Skylake, stopgap refreshes of refreshes, then when 10nm is actually ready it is unsaleable because it performs worse than the older node.

[xSOSxHawkens]

Magma Dragoon の投稿を引用：

xSOSxHawkens の投稿を引用：

They literally hamstrung consumer PC's into 4c/8t chips and charged as much as they could *without* progressing despite being able to, all for no reason other than they didnt *have* to cuz AMD didnt push them to. Intel *can* and *does* (at times) make amazing tech, but they are a crap company. One that will intentionally hold back the industry for as long as it can to milk a profitable situation. That says allot about them...

I don't buy this. The quad core era wasn't Intel intentionally holding back and drip feeding marginal upgrades, it was the beginning of their slipping manufacturing leadership. They couldn't get the real new products out in time, they released refreshes of the same products because they had nothing else ready. This made the already modest leap from the previous product look even smaller. This culminated in the near complete cancellation with Broadwell.

Then they started all over again doing the same thing with Skylake, stopgap refreshes of refreshes, then when 10nm is actually ready it is unsaleable because it performs worse than the older node.

See, I used to be someone split between how you think and what I said...

I wanted to give Intel the benefit of the doubt, that they were stuck against a wall and not just screwing the consumers over...

But the part of me that thought how I do now reminded myself that Intel *had* the type of tech that Ryzen brought, specially in ways that were comparable to Ryzen 1k line, years ago. They just kept 90% of it locked into Xeon territory, with a super slim portion of it stripped down and marketed at insane rates on the "HEDT" platform...

Then... Ryzen came...

And what did we *imediatly* see Intel pull as its very first stop gap to compete before they could respond with a new lineup? They cut prices on Xeons that were near Consumer platform levels, and they rebranded slightly stripped xeons in the consumer space meere months latter....

When they did this, it confimred for me, and was *correctly* poitned out by many in the tech industry, that Intel had the tech all along, and had, for years, intentioally priced it *out* of the consumer tech space for no reason than they could. The chips made them more money sold as xeons than as i9's and since AMD couldnt fire back in consumer space there was no reason for them to be alturistic or nice to the consumer. So instead they *intentionally* and for maximum profit kept the already available tech (decent core speeds *with* high core/thread count) locked behind prices that made them more or less unattanable for 95% of the consumer space.

Your views held plenty of weight... Right up to the point where Intel openly showed that they are not correct views. Intel has now done this. They have shown their cards. And the cards are that they can and will hold back when they are able to for maximum gain. Period.

[xSOSxHawkens]

FWIW Intel is still doing it now. They love to screw over their high end...

Case in point... Look at the price to build a 64c/128t single socket quad chan TR build, vs the price to build a dual socket Intel build with dual 28c chips, for 56c total, with more RAM bandwidth but split between sockets, and all the hassles that dual socket can bring... Then look at the performance.

In most cases the 64c TR will trounce the far more pricey dual xeon, and in the few cases where the Xeons can keep up or lead, the Ryzen is right there. All while being one chip vs two, and all while using less power, and costing less to buy.

Intel *could* make their xeons priced in such a way where the dual xeon build is competitive, but they dont. TR isnt even professional, its HEDT, where Intel only offers the 18c 10980xe... Intel *could* offer a 28c i9 at a comparable price to the 32c TR model, but they dont...

No, if you want AMD HEDT level you *have* to run Intel professional gear... They dont offer anything competitive from "consumer" grade. Not because they dont have they tech, just because they dont *feel* that its worth offering the tech at a comparable price.

[🦜Cloud Boy🦜]

It's not just $50 price hike from AMD in Zen3. It makes AMD's MSRP equal (or more) than the intel's MSRP (i5 10600k vs Ryzen 5600x, etc). Even WITHOUT the current price inflation.

There is more, We have seen in the past, AMD CPUs were always heavily discounted from their MSRP. That's how they competed with intel. But Lisa Su said there won't be any SUCH discounts in their NEWER lineups. That makes the gap even larger with their older gen.

[Illusion of Progress]

🌈Cloud Boy🌈 の投稿を引用：

It's not just $50 price hike from AMD in Zen3. It makes AMD's MSRP equal (or more) than the intel's MSRP (i5 10600k vs Ryzen 5600x, etc). Even WITHOUT the current price inflation.

There is more, We have seen in the past, AMD CPUs were always heavily discounted from their MSRP. That's how they competed with intel. But Lisa Su said there won't be any SUCH discounts in their NEWER lineups. That makes the gap even larger with their older gen.

While you're not wrong, there's considerations you're missing.

Per the first, I'd rather have a Ryzen 5 5600X than a Core i5 10600K at the same price. You're saying AMD has to be both faster AND cheaper to be given any credit, whereas Intel is allowed to be faster but more expensive and is yet given a pass as the only good option (while AMD is given the nose up for being a "budget" option when it is slower)?

And yes, the further discounts to Zen 2 were very nice. I am STILL realizing and appreciating how fantastic of a value my Ryzen 7 3700X truly was. But even at MSRP, they weren't "bad" values or anything.

The "best of the best" always comes with a premium, be it Intel or AMD.

Right now, yes, Intel is being given a fair bit of breathing room due to availability and pricing. If an Intel option gives you more for your money for what preferences you have in a CPU for your uses, then go with Intel. That's not a wrong choice.

[r.linder]

🌈Cloud Boy🌈 の投稿を引用：

It's not just $50 price hike from AMD in Zen3. It makes AMD's MSRP equal (or more) than the intel's MSRP (i5 10600k vs Ryzen 5600x, etc). Even WITHOUT the current price inflation.

There is more, We have seen in the past, AMD CPUs were always heavily discounted from their MSRP. That's how they competed with intel. But Lisa Su said there won't be any SUCH discounts in their NEWER lineups. That makes the gap even larger with their older gen.

Intel's decision to cut back the cores on the i9 parts makes them less viable compared to AMD's Ryzen 9... They just leave a larger gap between the desktop i9 and HEDT i9 that Ryzen 9 can easily fill because there's more to CPUs than just single core performance and clocks, but yet that's all Intel can do right now because they need something fresh, they've given up on value and multi-core. They've been doing the same old fundamental design since Sandy Bridge because it did so well, with poor management decisions, so they ended up getting "lazy" and falling behind with the current generation, and it's going to take a few years for the effects of new leadership to really bear fruit.

[xSOSxHawkens]

🌈Cloud Boy🌈 の投稿を引用：

It's not just $50 price hike from AMD in Zen3. It makes AMD's MSRP equal (or more) than the intel's MSRP (i5 10600k vs Ryzen 5600x, etc). Even WITHOUT the current price inflation.

There is more, We have seen in the past, AMD CPUs were always heavily discounted from their MSRP. That's how they competed with intel. But Lisa Su said there won't be any SUCH discounts in their NEWER lineups. That makes the gap even larger with their older gen.

There is nothing wrong with AMD having equal pricing, least of all when they are beating Intel.

No one here to blame for the price hike *except* intel...

PremiumBuilds.com の投稿を引用：

So, is the $300 Ryzen 5 5600X superior to the $238-$262 Intel i5-10600K, considering the price difference?

It appears so. Not only due to the fact that it is likely to outperform the i5-10600K both in gaming and content creation applications, but also because it includes PCIe 4.0 compatibility, a stock cooler, and because it is so much more energy-efficient. The fact that the i5-10600K has a TDP that exceeds that of even the new flagship Ryzen 5000 series processors, is a serious sign that Intel has to work on optimizing their energy efficiency. Paying $40-$60 more for a CPU that provides more versatility, better workstation performance, more motherboards to choose from, and will eventually pay you back the difference in your future electric bills, seems like a no-brainer – even if the gaming performance between them was ultimately equal, which it probably won’t be.

As much as we’d like to blame AMD for this increase in price, it was really Intel’s 10th generation performance and pricing that provided AMD with the opportunity to capitalize on their competition’s shortcomings; and without even having to add additional cores, threads, or cache storage. Now, the ball is in Intel’s court. Let’s see how, and if, they will answer, in a few months’ time, when they announce their 11th generation CPUs.

Intel could have chosen to undercut AMD hard. Intel has the market sway to pull it, and is a big enough company with enough open cash flow to take the short term hit. Intel *could* have accepted its short comings, and put out the 10th gen at -$50 across the low end, and minus 100$ mid range and up. That would have put them into a position similar to when AMD was underdog, where despite having the inferior tech Intel would have had a much better price.

Instead Intel put out chips at the same price point, then AMD put out *better* chips at the same price point, making Intel the clear loser.

[Hexagon]

I was Intel since I remember and recently bought 5800x. The main reason was I wanted pcie 4 so I can get the benefits of rtx IO when it starts to be implemented in games. As for performance they are slightly faster than current Intel CPUs but the main reason is lower temps and power draw. Give 3-4 years and I'll probably move to Intel again once they sort their nm process nodes.