How good is this Gaming Rig? + Couple of questions

[Leon S. Kennedy]

Hey guys

So It is due time that I get a new Gaming rig and I have found a shop that makes custom gaming systems.

I have made some modifications to one of their setups and this Is what I am getting (haven't bought anything yet):

___________________________________________

Tower: Coirsair Carbid VG-275R Tempered Glass

CPU: I7 10700f 2.9GHZ (boostable to 4.8GHZ) 16MB Cache 8-core

Motherboard: Asus TUF B460M-Plus Gaming Motherboard

GFX Card: ASUS Geforce RTX 3070 8GB - Can be upgraded into the TUF variant with extra Cooling

RAM: 16GB Corsair DDR4-3000 XMP RAM - Can be upgraded into 32GB if neccesary

HDD: 1000GB SSD M.2 NvMe SSD

Intel Wifi 6 AX200 Wireless LAN Card

Corsair Hydro H75 Water Cooling (Or Be Quiet Pure Rock CPU Cooler if the Water Cooling is overkill)

RGB LED Lights, controlled with remote.


___________________________________________

My budget: Between 1.635 USD and 2.452 USD

Total Price: 2.060 USD (approximately).

___________________________________________


All of these things should go togtether as I am having a Company built it for me. But it's been about 10 years since I last got a Deskop PC so I am rusty when it comes to these things.

A few questions:

I'll mostly be using this to play games like Dead By Daylight, Left for Dead 2, 7 days to DIe and possibly upcoming Back 4 Blood. Can this thing run these games at max settings + 60fps minimum?


Do I need 32GB RAM or is 16GB enough for games + Firefox tabs? Might sound stupid but my current Gaming Laptop with only 8G of ram struggles with decent FPS on DBD if I also use FIrefox.

Is there any reason to upgrade the RTX 3070 to the TUF Edition with 3 fans?

Is Water Cooling neccesary if I don't intend to overclock? (As far as I know, I can't overclock this CPU anyway, but I can get a K-edition of the same CPU which I assume can be oveclocked?)


Sorry for the wall of text. Hope you guys can me some pointers anyway.

[mtono]

good build...i would go for 32 gb. i dont know really why, but that is the mainstream...go fot it, if you have the money. else: your pc will be fast enough for a long time.

[MAX]

its perfect,true if you can go for 32,i think you can handle any game/new games at more than 60 fps with that pc,take the 3 fan 3070 if you can for best cooling :)

[Matłuszczak]

yeppa

[Julien, cut it out.]

Seems rather very expensive.

I could buy the CPU, the motherboard and the RAM for around 550 USD.
Unfortunately, graphics cards are currently rare/ unavailable and are sold above MSRP. The MSRP of the ASUS Geforce RTX 3070 should be somewhere around 500 - 600 USD.
The rest of the components can be purchased for around 200 USD.

You'd pay 60% more for the same product.

Besides the issue with the price, watercooling might become an issue. A watercooled PC needs regular maintenance. If you're not willing to learn how to maintain such a device, I do recommend to get a regular air cooled PC.
Competent air coolers are as good as water coolers. The actual difference in the cooling solution manifests in higher sustained clockspeeds during a longer period of time, but that behaviour depends on the power limit configuration. I'm not sure if the B chipsets allows for custom power settings.
Overall, the performance difference is minimal and also the heat capacity of a water cooled system will saturate after some time.

Regarding your questions:
At what resolution do you intend to play your games?
At 1080p and 1440p, the RTX 3060 Ti or the RTX 3070 are viable options.
At 1440p 21:9, the RTX 3070 is viable.
At 4k, the RTX 3080 is recommended.

32 GB is not necessary for gaming, currently. Furthermore, upgrading RAM is very easy.

I'd recommend different components for a gaming PC. Can you link the retailer's site?

[Leon S. Kennedy]

Thanks you guys, I will definately consider the 32GB upgrade, it's just that I am not sure whether or not I should go for that or the TUF Variant of the GFX Card, don't really know what difference it makes besides runnng cooler. I probably won't go for both either.

Any input on my other questions?

[Leon S. Kennedy]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Bananarama:

Seems rather very expensive.

I could buy the CPU, the motherboard and the RAM for around 550 USD.
Unfortunately, graphics cards are currently rare/ unavailable and are sold above MSRP. The MSRP of the ASUS Geforce RTX 3070 should be somewhere around 500 - 600 USD.
The rest of the components can be purchased for around 200 USD.

You'd pay 60% more for the same product.

Besides the issue with the price, watercooling might become an issue. A watercooled PC needs regular maintenance. If you're not willing to learn how to maintain such a device, I do recommend to get a regular air cooled PC.
Competent air coolers are as good as water coolers. The actual difference in the cooling solution manifests in higher sustained clockspeeds in a longer period of time, but that behaviour depends on the power limit configuration. Overall, the performance difference is minimal and also the heat capacity of a water cooled system will saturate after some time.

Regarding your questions:
At what resolution do you intend to play your games?
At 1080p and 1440p, the RTX 3060 Ti or the RTX 3070 are viable options.
At 1440p 21:9, the RTX 3070 is viable.
At 4k, the RTX 3080 is recommended.

32 GB is not necessary for gaming, currently. Furthermore, upgrading RAM is very easy.

Now that's what I am talking about, thanks for your input:P

I'm not surprised this is kinda expensive, I'm well aware I could get the same system or better at a lower price if I built it myself, but I am simply not confident enough to do so. I can certainly upgrade or mess with a build someone has already made, but going from that to building the whole system myself is...scary, to say the least.

I did not know I had to mess with the water cooling at all, as the website lists the option as "maintenance free" and this is the first time I am even considering water cooling.

Just asking; would that be "difficult" to maintain then? Maintaining the clock speed over longer periods might actually benefit me, because I am also into Console Emulation, and I can imagine running something like CEMU (Wii U Emulator) is gonna put pressure on the CPU without good cooling.

Now, my questions:

For the time being, I am going to be running games on 1080P, though I plan on upgrading my monitor sometime in the future to whatever the Card can output, 1440P would be ideal. Any idea about what kind of refresh rate would go with this card?

You're right, I can always upgrade the RAM later, might it be worth it to go the TUF version of the GFX Card instead then?

Again, thanks for your help.

EDIT: Here's the website and the exact Rig: https://www.mm-vision.dk/visiongaming/Rage-gamer-computer

It's in danish, but if you scroll down to "Konfiguration", I'm sure you can tell components from eachother.

[Julien, cut it out.]

I had a further look into the specifications of the system. Besides the price, the setup is really a mixed bag.

Let's discuss the system:

Many B motherboards allow to tinker with the power limits of a non-K CPUs, allowing such a CPU to have a higher power consumption, thus having a higher frequency over a longer period of time. In the case of a 10700, with such a power limit configuration the performance can be very impressive, at least in multi-threaded performance.
Source 1[www.techpowerup.com]
Source 2[www.msi.com]
Source 3[www.tomshardware.com]

Now comes the issue: For such a power limit configuration, the Corsair H75 is not the right cooling solution. It will run into thermal throttling, futher reducing the power consumption of the CPU thus having lower frequency.
This cooling solution is not designed to run at such power consumption.
Also the low-wattage PSU will become an issue!

I really do not recommend this configuration. It won't be as future-proof as comparable setups.

Performance in general:

For gaming/emulation, core- respectively threadcount is not the most important thing.
Single-thread performance is more important and core count does not really affect single-thread performance.
The underlying architecture and the frequency does influence single-thread performance.
A locked Intel CPU (Non-K) has a lower single-thread performance than an unlocked CPU, so you really want one of these K CPUs when going Intel.

Ryzen 5000 CPUs and the 10th gen Intel core CPUs have similar single-thread performance.

Potential CPUs I'd recommend:
6 core with SMT: i5-10600k, Ryzen 5 5600x
8 core with SMT: i9-9900k, i7-10700k, Ryzen 7 5800x

A modern 6 core CPU with SMT should be more than sufficient for the next 4-5 years. An 8 core CPU might give you better "future-proofing". But currently, there are no games available that benefit from such a high core/thread count and it will take some time until we'll see such games.

Such a decision is anyway driven by budget and expected hardware development. (I've been doing incremental upgrades the past few years, buying new hardware and selling my old hardware, and may have invested 500 USD netto since 2016 in my gaming rig.)

Furthermore, 2000 USD should yield better hardware. The issue lays within the configuration possibilites offered by such sites.

You're way better off starting with these configurations:

https://www.mm-vision.dk/visiongaming/Raptor-gaming-computer

https://www.mm-vision.dk/visiongaming/Ryzen-Plus-gamer-stationaer

You start at a higher price point, but you will end in a similar price range with more capable hardware.
If you go for an i7-10700k or Ryzen 7 5800X, choose a different CPU cooler than the default one.

Regarding your questions:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Leon S. Kennedy:

Any idea about what kind of refresh rate would go with this card?

144 Hz. Just make sure that the monitor is GSync/ FreeSnyc compatible. This feature allows the monitor to adjust its refresh rate to the output of the GPU (FPS).

Początkowo opublikowane przez Leon S. Kennedy:

You're right, I can always upgrade the RAM later, might it be worth it to go the TUF version of the GFX Card instead then?

Hard to tell.
The default card in the configuration is the Asus GeForce® RTX 3070 8GB Dual. Performance should be similar to the Founders Edition, the fan noise is louder.
Out of the box, the TUF is out of the box only slighly faster[www.guru3d.com] but offers better overclocking.

If you don't intend to overclock the GPU, the upgrade is clearly not worth the money.

Regarding liquid cooling:
When I made my comment about higher frequency, I had Ryzen CPUs in mind. And the difference is just a couple of MHz and the effect of performance is neglegible.

On an Intel setup, the turbo boost frequency works differently. An air cooler will perform as good as a liquid cooler.

Expected lifespan of a liquid cooling solution is roughly 5 years. At this point the coolant will mostly have permeated the tubes and you need to refill the coolant. But this can also happen earlier.
Replacing the thermal paste on an air cooler is easier. But this is just my preference.

[hawkeye]

Seems over priced to me.

B mobo - memory probably limited to 2933 GHz = fps loss
Micro mobo - avoid
Micro mobo plus water cooling - avoid
B mobo - avoid, probably reduced number of pcie lanes

Z590 is what you should buy when they are released..

1TB SSD - too small
nvme ssd - is that going to use pcie lanes that you don't have?

Wi-fi - get it integrated

rtx3070 - check psu connectors and card size versus case and mobo layout

Overall - no thanks.

Wait 4-6 weeks for 11th gen.

[hawkeye]

Seems over priced to me.

B mobo - memory probably limited to 2933 GHz = fps loss
Micro mobo - avoid
Micro mobo plus water cooling - avoid
B mobo - avoid, probably reduced number of pcie lanes

Z590 is what you should buy when they are released.

1TB SSD - too small
nvme ssd - is that going to use pcie lanes that you don't have?

Wi-fi - get it integrated

rtx3070 - check psu connectors and card size versus case and mobo layout

Overall - no thanks.

Wait 4-6 weeks for 11th gen.

[Leon S. Kennedy]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Bananarama:

I had a further look into the specifications of the system. Besides the price, the setup is really a mixed bag.

Let's discuss the system:

Many B motherboards allow to tinker with the power limits of a non-K CPUs, allowing such a CPU to have a higher power consumption, thus having a higher frequency over a longer period of time. In the case of a 10700, with such a power limit configuration the performance can be very impressive, at least in multi-threaded performance.
Source 1[www.techpowerup.com]
Source 2[www.msi.com]
Source 3[www.tomshardware.com]

Now comes the issue: For such a power limit configuration, the Corsair H75 is not the right cooling solution. It will run into thermal throttling, futher reducing the power consumption of the CPU thus having lower frequency.
This cooling solution is not designed to run at such power consumption.
Also the low-wattage PSU will become an issue!

I really do not recommend this configuration. It won't be as future-proof as comparable setups.

Performance in general:

For gaming/emulation, core- respectively threadcount is not the most important thing.
Single-thread performance is more important and core count does not really affect single-thread performance.
The underlying architecture and the frequency does influence single-thread performance.
A locked Intel CPU (Non-K) has a lower single-thread performance than an unlocked CPU, so you really want one of these K CPUs when going Intel.

Ryzen 5000 CPUs and the 10th gen Intel core CPUs have similar single-thread performance.

Potential CPUs I'd recommend:
6 core with SMT: i5-10600k, Ryzen 5 5600x
8 core with SMT: i9-9900k, i7-10700k, Ryzen 7 5800x

A modern 6 core CPU with SMT should be more than sufficient for the next 4-5 years. An 8 core CPU might give you better "future-proofing". But currently, there are no games available that benefit from such a high core/thread count and it will take some time until we'll see such games.

Such a decision is anyway driven by budget and expected hardware development. (I've been doing incremental upgrades the past few years, buying new hardware and selling my old hardware, and may have invested 500 USD netto since 2016 in my gaming rig.)

Furthermore, 2000 USD should yield better hardware. The issue lays within the configuration possibilites offered by such sites.

You're way better off starting with these configurations:

https://www.mm-vision.dk/visiongaming/Raptor-gaming-computer

https://www.mm-vision.dk/visiongaming/Ryzen-Plus-gamer-stationaer

You start at a higher price point, but you will end in a similar price range with more capable hardware.
If you go for an i7-10700k or Ryzen 7 5800X, choose a different CPU cooler than the default one.

Regarding your questions:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Leon S. Kennedy:

Any idea about what kind of refresh rate would go with this card?

144 Hz. Just make sure that the monitor is GSync/ FreeSnyc compatible. This feature allows the monitor to adjust its refresh rate to the output of the GPU (FPS).

Początkowo opublikowane przez Leon S. Kennedy:

You're right, I can always upgrade the RAM later, might it be worth it to go the TUF version of the GFX Card instead then?

Hard to tell.
The default card in the configuration is the Asus GeForce® RTX 3070 8GB Dual. Performance should be similar to the Founders Edition, the fan noise is louder.
Out of the box, the TUF is out of the box only slighly faster[www.guru3d.com] but offers better overclocking.

If you don't intend to overclock the GPU, the upgrade is clearly not worth the money.

Regarding liquid cooling:
When I made my comment about higher frequency, I had Ryzen CPUs in mind. And the difference is just a couple of MHz and the effect of performance is neglegible.

On an Intel setup, the turbo boost frequency works differently. An air cooler will perform as good as a liquid cooler.

Expected lifespan of a liquid cooling solution is roughly 5 years. At this point the coolant will mostly have permeated the tubes and you need to refill the coolant. But this can also happen earlier.
Replacing the thermal paste on an air cooler is easier. But this is just my preference.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I actually contacted the company the other day and the Raptor Gaming Rig that I had also considered was brought up as a much more powerful PC.

The GFX Card is the same and the RAM is almost the same, but The CPU especially is much better than I originally thought (way better Clock Speed like you said) , so I am glad you suggested that.

I'll be going with the Raptor then.

The I7 10700kf edition, Air cooling instead of water cooling and i'll be sure to not just go for the standard Cooler.

I'll take the regular version of the GFX Card as I have no intention of overclocking that anyway.

I'll get the Z490 with integrated WIFI and either a bigger SD or an extra HDD to go with the SSD.

And when that time comes, I'll find a 144hz monitor with GSync/ FreeSync compatibility.

Thanks soo much for your help man

[Leon S. Kennedy]

Początkowo opublikowane przez hawkeye:

Seems over priced to me.

B mobo - memory probably limited to 2933 GHz = fps loss
Micro mobo - avoid
Micro mobo plus water cooling - avoid
B mobo - avoid, probably reduced number of pcie lanes

Z590 is what you should buy when they are released.

1TB SSD - too small
nvme ssd - is that going to use pcie lanes that you don't have?

Wi-fi - get it integrated

rtx3070 - check psu connectors and card size versus case and mobo layout

Overall - no thanks.

Wait 4-6 weeks for 11th gen.

Thanks for your input

I'm going with a different build that the one i originally posted.I'd rather not wait too much longer though, so probably won't be getting the Z590, but I can take the Z490 instead - that comes with Integrated Wifi like you suggested.

A 1TB SSD is more than enough for my needs for now, but I was thinking of getting a HDD to go with it anyway. Frankly I have no idea about the pcie lanes you are talking about, but the PC is being built, so I trust they know what they are doing.

[I'm the Commander]

hahahan long slong ayyyy

[Guydodge]

personally dont like the case airflow is way to restrictive.consider a mesh front. i would also drop the wifi if you intend to do multiplayer.always better to be hardwired. 32gb memory is needed.if you dont intend on overclocking your cpu is fine as well