DDR5 RAM - Realistically, how far off are we from it?

[Randy Marsh]

Curious, what you guys think.

[DeadBeat]

Postat inițial de _I_:

https://downloadmoreram.com/download.html

Thanks for the link. :)

[Lord Flashheart]

Postat inițial de vadim:

There is no reason to DDR5 to be expensive.

I hope you are right.
My guess - ongoing supply issues.
It is error correcting so all 'server grade'.
Likely geared for the server market big markups.

Then there are those who want the latest and greatest for its own sake, causing further price & availability issues.

My old DDR3 machine, or a lot of the components is now a NAS, specifically freenas with various VMs. Ideally you want ECC memory for any server.

I hope to get a cheap motherboard, low end CPU and some DDR5 memory for that.

As for gaming, will stick with my DDR4 machine.

[Omega]

Postat inițial de Lord of Misrule:

Postat inițial de vadim:

There is no reason to DDR5 to be expensive.

I hope you are right.
My guess - ongoing supply issues.
It is error correcting so all 'server grade'.
Likely geared for the server market big markups.

Then there are those who want the latest and greatest for its own sake, causing further price & availability issues.

My old DDR3 machine, or a lot of the components is now a NAS, specifically freenas with various VMs. Ideally you want ECC memory for any server.

I hope to get a cheap motherboard, low end CPU and some DDR5 memory for that.

As for gaming, will stick with my DDR4 machine.

Idealy you want ECC always.

ECC should be standard, Intel is the one who came up with this stupid and useless market segmentation.

[Hexagon]

Postat inițial de AYYLAMO:

Curious, what you guys think.

You'll get ddr5 end of this year on Intel platforms, next year AMD will have it. Will it change much for gaming? I doubt that it wil be worth switching from ddr4 especially if you recently build a high end rig. But give it 2 years and upgrading should have good jump in performance.

[Lord Flashheart]

Postat inițial de _I_:

https://downloadmoreram.com/download.html

great
I now have over 1 TB of memory.

Is there a site along the lines of downloadanRTX3080 anywhere?

Does it take paypal I wonder?

I wonder how many would fall for that?

[xSOSxHawkens]

Postat inițial de Omega:

Postat inițial de Lord of Misrule:

I hope you are right.
My guess - ongoing supply issues.
It is error correcting so all 'server grade'.
Likely geared for the server market big markups.

Then there are those who want the latest and greatest for its own sake, causing further price & availability issues.

My old DDR3 machine, or a lot of the components is now a NAS, specifically freenas with various VMs. Ideally you want ECC memory for any server.

I hope to get a cheap motherboard, low end CPU and some DDR5 memory for that.

As for gaming, will stick with my DDR4 machine.

Idealy you want ECC always.

ECC should be standard, Intel is the one who came up with this stupid and useless market segmentation.

ECC *is* standard on AMD fwiw... Its on board makers to certify it, but out of the box the whole product stack works with it, and there are models of boards, even on the budget consumer chips that are fully ECC certified.

I recently helped my UK GF build on a Gigabyte B550 Vision D (quite a nice looking board) which is fully unbuffered ECC certified on B550.

I agree that its stupid to have such a segmentation though!

As for the OP...

When will it be "available" as in released, probably end of year or early next year. When will it be the norm to build with for new parts? Probably 2022. When will it be the defacto standard that most are running on? 2023-25. RAM tends to have longer life than other PC parts bridging a few generations.

[Omega]

Postat inițial de xSOSxHawkens:

Postat inițial de Omega:

Idealy you want ECC always.

ECC should be standard, Intel is the one who came up with this stupid and useless market segmentation.

ECC *is* standard on AMD fwiw... Its on board makers to certify it, but out of the box the whole product stack works with it, and there are models of boards, even on the budget consumer chips that are fully ECC certified.

I recently helped my UK GF build on a Gigabyte B550 Vision D (quite a nice looking board) which is fully unbuffered ECC certified on B550.

I agree that its stupid to have such a segmentation though!

On paper it indeed *is*. You can drop ECC memory in to a board and it will work and claim ECC is active, but there is no way to know for certain that ECC is indeed actually enabled.

That is currently the risk you run with AMD Ryzen machines. You put in ECC memory, everything indicates it is working but in reality it is not.

There is no such thing as ECC certification, it's a standard defined by JEDEC. You either support it or you do not.

[xSOSxHawkens]

Postat inițial de Omega:

Postat inițial de xSOSxHawkens:

ECC *is* standard on AMD fwiw... Its on board makers to certify it, but out of the box the whole product stack works with it, and there are models of boards, even on the budget consumer chips that are fully ECC certified.

I recently helped my UK GF build on a Gigabyte B550 Vision D (quite a nice looking board) which is fully unbuffered ECC certified on B550.

I agree that its stupid to have such a segmentation though!

On paper it indeed *is*. You can drop ECC memory in to a board and it will work and claim ECC is active, but there is no way to know for certain that ECC is indeed actually enabled.

That is currently the risk you run with AMD Ryzen machines. You put in ECC memory, everything indicates it is working but in reality it is not.

There is no such thing as ECC certification, it's a standard defined by JEDEC. You either support it or you do not.

You are correct that there is no such thing as "certification" in the sense of JEDEC...

And you are right that ECC is either a thing you have or a thing you dont, and AMD's lineup *does* have ECC supported...

That said, there is a difference between the AMD chipset/CPU "supporting" it acording to AMD vs the motherboard makers openly advertising *full* support and *full* ecc compatibility and function... That difference is liability. Which is why (most) consumer AMD boards, despite having ECC support under the hood, dont openly state or advertise such support. To get such garuntees on functioanlity from the maker you ofetn have to up the board to something from the non-consumer levels... But, not with all boards. If you want ECC on the cheap you can get manufactuer backed (aka, certified by the board makers) ECC support even on the B550 line.

That was what I was meaning with certified. Not by JEDEC, but by the MB makers as a supported and "offical" listed spec.

[Lord Flashheart]

Postat inițial de xSOSxHawkens:

Postat inițial de Omega:

Idealy you want ECC always.

ECC should be standard, Intel is the one who came up with this stupid and useless market segmentation.

ECC *is* standard on AMD fwiw... Its on board makers to certify it, but out of the box the whole product stack works with it, and there are models of boards, even on the budget consumer chips that are fully ECC certified.

I recently helped my UK GF build on a Gigabyte B550 Vision D (quite a nice looking board) which is fully unbuffered ECC certified on B550.

I agree that its stupid to have such a segmentation though!

As for the OP...

When will it be "available" as in released, probably end of year or early next year. When will it be the norm to build with for new parts? Probably 2022. When will it be the defacto standard that most are running on? 2023-25. RAM tends to have longer life than other PC parts bridging a few generations.

Interesting.

My use for a DDR5 would be quite specific - for a NAS - so a lowish end cpu, motherboard and ideally ECC memory.

Seconfd hand DDR3 combos with ECC memory are limited to 32GB it seems.

Low end DDR4 CPUs and motherboards will not support ECC memory officially it seems.

All DDR5 is apparently ECC. So a cheap motherboard, low end CPU and maybe 32GB in 2 x 16GB sticks to start with would be good starting point. FreeNAS likes a lot of memory and the VMs need some to. Maybe upgrade to more memory later.

[Illusion of Progress]

Postat inițial de xSOSxHawkens:

When will it be "available" as in released, probably end of year or early next year. When will it be the norm to build with for new parts? Probably 2022. When will it be the defacto standard that most are running on? 2023-25. RAM tends to have longer life than other PC parts bridging a few generations.

Pretty much what I said. We're many years off from it being "normal", but maybe only a year or two away from new builds having it as their only option by default. I tend to buy near the middle or even middle-end of a RAM generation (not necessarily intentionally; it's just how it tends to fall time-wise) and I tend to buy a lot of it. Had 8 GB of DDR2 in 2009-ish and 16 GB of DDR3 in 2011. I just stocked up with 64 GB of the stuff in DDR4 and have no plans to replace board or RAM in the next many years (obviously, incredibly rapid improvement in CPU performance and/or low prices for a big jump could offset that, but it'd have to be way above pace of even the last few years to make it worth it as I spent more on RAM with my last platform upgrade than either CPU or board). Memory is also more expensive and slower at the start anyway and it doesn't bring major performance impacts on its own which is why I don't get people who go "I'll upgrade when DDR5 comes". Why? Upgrade when you need a new CPU. Whatever RAM it uses, it uses.

[Hexagon]

Postat inițial de Illusion of Progress:

Postat inițial de xSOSxHawkens:

When will it be "available" as in released, probably end of year or early next year. When will it be the norm to build with for new parts? Probably 2022. When will it be the defacto standard that most are running on? 2023-25. RAM tends to have longer life than other PC parts bridging a few generations.

Pretty much what I said. We're many years off from it being "normal", but maybe only a year or two away from new builds having it as their only option by default. I tend to buy near the middle or even middle-end of a RAM generation (not necessarily intentionally; it's just how it tends to fall time-wise) and I tend to buy a lot of it. Had 8 GB of DDR2 in 2009-ish and 16 GB of DDR3 in 2011. I just stocked up with 64 GB of the stuff in DDR4 and have no plans to replace board or RAM in the next many years (obviously, incredibly rapid improvement in CPU performance and/or low prices for a big jump could offset that, but it'd have to be way above pace of even the last few years to make it worth it as I spent more on RAM with my last platform upgrade than either CPU or board). Memory is also more expensive and slower at the start anyway and it doesn't bring major performance impacts on its own which is why I don't get people who go "I'll upgrade when DDR5 comes". Why? Upgrade when you need a new CPU. Whatever RAM it uses, it uses.

DDR5 will have much higher speeds right on release, starting at 4600mhz up to 6000 apparently. How it will translate to gaming performance? Not a clue but I doubt it will be any big impact.

I agree that people shouldn't just jump in and upgrade because it makes little sense unless you due an upgrade anyway. But get ready as ddr5 and boards supporting it might be easily more expensive than high end cpu

[Illusion of Progress]

By low speeds, I don't necessarily mean relative to DDR4, but relative to how fast it will get later (though timings go up to offset it a bit; certain programs may see gains from the raw bandwidth increase and others less so as timings/latency go up to counteract any gains).

[vadim]

Postat inițial de Illusion of Progress:

how much of a performance difference would a narrower bus make

It would allow to double effective bus clock rate. Exactly as DDR3 (n*8 prefetch) vs DDR2 (n*4 prefetch). Or DDR2 vs original DDR (prefetch n*2).

[hCerisu ❤]

I'd say early 2022. It won't be that much better than DDR4 though until 2024-2025.

[Hexagon]

Postat inițial de Nabikunyoi:

I'd say early 2022. It won't be that much better than DDR4 though until 2024-2025.

Wrong. It will have speed starting at 4600mhz and cas latency of 18 right from the start. It's coming with an Intel Alder lake CPUs together with Pcie5 gen releasing in second half this year