Choosing thermal pad

[Spy Boy]

Hey

I heard that thermal pads are superior than paste. But I am struggling with choosing one for my PC. My CPU is i5 8400. I tried to Google but couldn't find the answer...

[Jamebonds1]

Monk a écrit :

Jamebonds1 a écrit :

Yes, conductive material like silicone could building up a little static. That is why there is ground path and bleeder. I have more prove for you.

https://esdsystems.descoindustries.com/whitepapers/wp_introesd.html



CPU and MOBO has a sensitive chip that they could still be damaged by ESD if not grounded properly.



That is not what I did, I know what I'm doing. I followed a description from the product manual and somehow it damaged my GPU for no reason until I found out it was ESD that damaged it. Also, I never said I damaged multiple components, and I can't changed what I saw at my work. That would be telling OP a lie.


I'm not the one that started argument, I just posted my feedback and nothing more. Your replying post is actually derailed.



Anyone can just called themselves as an electrical engineering, and it would not mean anything. Expert person in compliance product know more. I read IEC 61000-4-2, and it does said what I stated.

OK, I never said I'm an electrical engineer I said I studied it, big difference, but, again, none of what you linked is in anyway connected to the op or your issue, what did you use exactly on your gpu as simply placing thermal paste on a chip CANNOT build up a charge alone let alone enough to frag something this rubbish will freak people out who don't know, that is why I am replying.

You also mentioned having multiple dead components, I presumed you meant stuff you worked on.

Yes a mobo and cpu have chips that could be damaged by static, it's just incredibly unlikely these days unless you are actively trying to do so.

https://youtu.be/nXkgbmr3dRA

Regardless of what you say, a gpu dieing from static build up from a silicon paste being placed on the bare gpu die is all but impossible, the chance of the same electrically conductive paste squirming over the edge of the gpu due abd touching the surrounding components causing a short leading to a dead gpu makes, well, alot of sense.

Of course in this scenario, option 1 is an incredibly rare act of God, while option 2 is a reasonably common result, resulting from user error.

Heck, I'd bet you put a pea sized blob on the die abd dudnt actively spread it thinly too.

Beyond all of this, the op isn't touching a chip just the ihs.

I don't know what is your deal, but I'm not changing what I saw. That would tell OP a lie. There is no silicone paste touch another component. And yes, silicone paste could still build static. I proved it with link.

"One common misconception is that conductive materials do not generate charges. This is because the dissipation of static charges from grounded conductive material tends to be complete and rapid. Ungrounded conductors can generate and hold static charges."

There is no sensitive-free chip in PC. I have searched everything.

[Monk]

Hang on, we're you using silicon or silicone paste, as one us a conductor, the other an insulator and shouldn't be anywhere near a chip for thermal transfer.

I don't care what you linked, it made zero sense as you describe it, using paste in any kind of correct manner around a pc will not, nay, cannot build up enough of a charge to kill a component.

If you truly used silicone your gpu cooked itself, here was me thinking you used silicon greese as a thermal paste, either way, it wasn't static from a paste that killed a gpu chip unless you active trued to build a charge while applying it, even then it's unlikely, plus, let us not forget, this was on a bare die not on an ihs so is completely bloomin irrelevant to the OP.

Your fault was most definetly caused by you either cooking the gpu or a tiny ammount squishing out and shorting something if it was silicon.

As far as I get it, you work on a line somewhere testing or building some electronic component, you have a fear of static (esd) drummed into you, but fact is, under normal use it is very hard to kill stuff with static, just watch the video I linked of linus actively TRYING to zap stuff.

Maybe you could explain in detail what you did yo your gpu and include what ever silicon or silicone based item involved instead if being so damn vague leaving me without details that require making a small jump to the only 2 real possible options based on 20 years of experience.

[Jamebonds1]

Monk a écrit :

Hang on, we're you using silicon or silicone paste, as one us a conductor, the other an insulator and shouldn't be anywhere near a chip for thermal transfer.

I don't care what you linked, it made zero sense as you describe it, using paste in any kind of correct manner around a pc will not, nay, cannot build up enough of a charge to kill a component.

If you truly used silicone your gpu cooked itself, here was me thinking you used silicon greese as a thermal paste, either way, it wasn't static from a paste that killed a gpu chip unless you active trued to build a charge while applying it, even then it's unlikely, plus, let us not forget, this was on a bare die not on an ihs so is completely bloomin irrelevant to the OP.

Your fault was most definetly caused by you either cooking the gpu or a tiny ammount squishing out and shorting something if it was silicon.

As far as I get it, you work on a line somewhere testing or building some electronic component, you have a fear of static (esd) drummed into you, but fact is, under normal use it is very hard to kill stuff with static, just watch the video I linked of linus actively TRYING to zap stuff.

Maybe you could explain in detail what you did yo your gpu and include what ever silicon or silicone based item involved instead if being so damn vague leaving me without details that require making a small jump to the only 2 real possible options based on 20 years of experience.

It is not my fault, I follow direction on product. Silicone paste is silicone, and silicone material is silicone.

[Monk]

No, silicon and silicone paste are totally different.

Seeming more likely you cooked your gpu lol.

[A&A]

Jamebonds1 a écrit :

I don't know what is your deal, but I'm not changing what I saw. That would tell OP a lie. There is no silicone paste touch another component. And yes, silicone paste could still build static. I proved it with link.

"One common misconception is that conductive materials do not generate charges. This is because the dissipation of static charges from grounded conductive material tends to be complete and rapid. Ungrounded conductors can generate and hold static charges."

There is no sensitive-free chip in PC. I have searched everything.

Thermal pastes* are usually electrically insulating.

[Jamebonds1]

Monk a écrit :

No, silicon and silicone paste are totally different.

Seeming more likely you cooked your gpu lol.

I didn't cooked my GPU, ESD killed it. Please stop try change what I saw.

Also, I never talk about silicon, I talked about silicone paste and silicone material. They are same.

[Jamebonds1]

A&A a écrit :

Jamebonds1 a écrit :

I don't know what is your deal, but I'm not changing what I saw. That would tell OP a lie. There is no silicone paste touch another component. And yes, silicone paste could still build static. I proved it with link.

"One common misconception is that conductive materials do not generate charges. This is because the dissipation of static charges from grounded conductive material tends to be complete and rapid. Ungrounded conductors can generate and hold static charges."

There is no sensitive-free chip in PC. I have searched everything.

Thermal pastes* are usually electrically insulating.

Sometime they are mixed with non metal and metal, so it is called metalloids.

[Monk]

And silicone paste is an insulator so doesn't exactly conduct heat unless I am very much mistaken, its only use in a pc is to act as a seal / glue to hold the ihs on a cpu, it has zero uses on a gpu.

So, either you put an insulator in place if thermal paste, or it was silicon based abd likely caused a short.

I mean, you can't see esd dmg with the eye abd even under a microscope it would be hard to detect, do I am unsure how you saw said damage.

Again, perhaps if you could explain exactly what you did and share which product you used you may have some shred of credit, but do far, your description is all but impossible to occur, however the results I put forward would be either easy to accidentally do or a complete oversight.

[Monk]

Jamebonds1 a écrit :

A&A a écrit :

Thermal pastes* are usually electrically insulating.

Sometime they are mixed with non metal and metal, so it is called metalloids.

And those are conductive pastes, yding them near a bare due requires you to protect the surrounding pcb / components else when it squished out from mounting pressure it can touch the many tiny exposed components around the due causing a short.

It's why as I showed in a picture, I painted said pcb and components with nail polish to protect them should any of the liquid metal spill out.

[Jamebonds1]

Monk a écrit :

And silicone paste is an insulator so doesn't exactly conduct heat unless I am very much mistaken, its only use in a pc is to act as a seal / glue to hold the ihs on a cpu, it has zero uses on a gpu.

So, either you put an insulator in place if thermal paste, or it was silicon based abd likely caused a short.

I mean, you can't see esd dmg with the eye abd even under a microscope it would be hard to detect, do I am unsure how you saw said damage.

Again, perhaps if you could explain exactly what you did and share which product you used you may have some shred of credit, but do far, your description is all but impossible to occur, however the results I put forward would be either easy to accidentally do or a complete oversight.

I still can't change what I saw. When I applied a new silicone paste to GPU as I followed direction, then it stopped working as soon as I installed a GPU in computer case. That mean it is ESD- caused failed.

[Monk]

Infact, here is a fully prepped gpu complete with LM on the die, the surrounding area protected by nail polish and 'magic putty' used to fill in the air gaps between vram (drops the temps notably but stupid expensive and hard to get).

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2602900846

Note the coppery /gold / silvery row of parts around the die and how close they are to the due itself, if you use a conductive thermal paste abd a tiny bit squished out when you mount the cooler and it touches 2 of them (under 1mm apart) it will cause a shirt abd kill the board.

Now, what's more likely, you killed the gpu from static, or some conductive pastes touched 2 tiny components and shorted it?

Of note to anyone seeing this later, this is being done on a 3090 strix, so I am pretty bloomin certain of what I am talking about and how to repaste etc properly and safely else I could very easily kill the gpu and that is not something I can afford to do.

[Jamebonds1]

Monk a écrit :

Infact, here is a fully prepped gpu complete with LM on the die, the surrounding area protected by nail polish and 'magic putty' used to fill in the air gaps between vram (drops the temps notably but stupid expensive and hard to get).

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2602900846

My GPU had a bad ESD protection design that time. As I said, I can't tell a lie by change what I saw.

[WarBucks]

"Silicone" is a bathroom caulking and glue. It is a manmade polymer and unrelated to electronics.

"Silicon" is a natural semi-conductor. That means at certain frequencies higher than DC, a block of the material will conduct electricity.

Silicon not being a pure insulator will conduct heat (ie. phonons). It conducts much worse than metal but 1000x better than air. So we grind it up and use it between a cpu and heatsink to fill the micro gaps ie. Silicon based thermal paste.

Between the cpu die and the IHS there can be epoxy, solder, silicon paste, or something else. there will be some glue material around the rim to hold the IHS to the fiberglass board the chip is on.

Theres other stuff too of course.

[Monk]

A bare die has no esd protection beyond what is built into it from nvidia, every single due of the sane model is identical, one doesn't have extra protection compared to another, the actual chip, be it from evga, Asus or msi etc is the same on all of them.

I believe you think esd killed it, but experience and knowledge tells me that is all but impossible unless you actively TRIED to do so, which, I dont think you would of.

Besides you still haven't answered any of my questions, but, what does seem clear us people should not take your advice about redoing paste etc.

[Jamebonds1]

Monk a écrit :

A bare die has no esd protection beyond what is built into it from nvidia, every single due of the sane model is identical, one doesn't have extra protection compared to another, the actual chip, be it from evga, Asus or msi etc is the same on all of them.

I believe you think esd killed it, but experience and knowledge tells me that is all but impossible unless you actively TRIED to do so, which, I dont think you would of.

Besides you still haven't answered any of my questions, but, what does seem clear us people should not take your advice about redoing paste etc.

What question?