Linux starting point?

[sawdust3d]

Ok, I've been telling myself for years to do this (Linux). I've got a spare machine to dedicate to learning, so now's the time.

I know there are different versions, so let's say this PC is for mostly paperwork of one sort or another and some gaming.

I'll post specs if necessary, but suffice to say bit's a modern and very capable machine. Currently running Win10.

So where to start?

I contemplated posting this in the Linux for steam forum, but figured I'd wind up more in a Linux/Steam discussion.

Thanks

[Omega]

Originally posted by Product ∏:

Originally posted by Crosseyed Mie:

With the Beta release, I'm seriously considering a Pinephone or Librem, but right now, I have tablets on my mind.

Although I've had a Dragonbox Pyra preordered for a couple years now, and they're finally starting to ship, although I'm pretty far down in the queue. That would fulfill a Linux tablet's job nicely. Maybe I'll just get the phone.

Specs are terrible on both... What do even plan to do with it?

"Specs are terrible", you must be someone who replaces their phone every year.. That is wasteful and stupid. But big corporations love to abuse their power over you to make you buy new crap you don't need.

The benefit of these phones over the average Android and iOS phone:
- Updates forever, no proprietary garbage firmware forcing you to stick to a specific Linux kernel.
- It's a full PC in your pocket. No dumbed-down Android and iOS crap. Run the same applications you run on your PC.
- No spyware and advertising crap, no online accounts, and other intrusive "features".
- You actually own the device, no need to use exploits to gain root privilages.
- It will boot from any OS you give it. Flash a SD card plug it in and go.
- Convergence.

[Electric Cupcake]

Originally posted by Omega:

Originally posted by Product ∏:

Specs are terrible on both... What do even plan to do with it?

"Specs are terrible", you must be someone who replaces their phone every year.. That is wasteful and stupid. But big corporations love to abuse their power over you to make you buy new crap you don't need.

The benefit of these phones over the average Android and iOS phone:
- Updates forever, no proprietary garbage firmware forcing you to stick to a specific Linux kernel.
- It's a full PC in your pocket. No dumbed-down Android and iOS crap. Run the same applications you run on your PC.
- No spyware and advertising crap, no online accounts, and other intrusive "features".
- Convergence.

And the scum locking you out of your own root and loader, preventing you from removing or even looking at their remote monitoring/administrating spyware. I'm completely done with Android and the headache of trying to find a compatible TWRP package.

[iceman1980]

Originally posted by Crosseyed Mie:

Originally posted by Omega:

"Specs are terrible", you must be someone who replaces their phone every year.. That is wasteful and stupid. But big corporations love to abuse their power over you to make you buy new crap you don't need.

The benefit of these phones over the average Android and iOS phone:
- Updates forever, no proprietary garbage firmware forcing you to stick to a specific Linux kernel.
- It's a full PC in your pocket. No dumbed-down Android and iOS crap. Run the same applications you run on your PC.
- No spyware and advertising crap, no online accounts, and other intrusive "features".
- Convergence.

And the scum locking you out of your own root and loader, preventing you from removing or even looking at their remote monitoring/administrating spyware. I'm completely done with Android and the headache of trying to find a compatible TWRP package.

You do realise your ISP can see everything unless you run a VPN 24/7 right?

[Electric Cupcake]

Originally posted by Product ∏:

Originally posted by Crosseyed Mie:

And the scum locking you out of your own root and loader, preventing you from removing or even looking at their remote monitoring/administrating spyware. I'm completely done with Android and the headache of trying to find a compatible TWRP package.

You do realise your ISP can see everything unless you run a VPN 24/7 right?

That's basically what DNS66 is.

[iceman1980]

Originally posted by Crosseyed Mie:

Originally posted by Product ∏:

You do realise your ISP can see everything unless you run a VPN 24/7 right?

That's basically what DNS66 is.

smh you do know what the "PRISM" project was right?
I guess not.


What about your mobile phone? It still has to exchange authentication information and device data with the carrier. Or better yet what about GPS? You think the US is bad, did you know a lot of companies are using the GPS version called Baidu this can not only receive but it can also transmit. 2000 characters to be exact meaning it's bidirectional not the other way around.

Also once Quantum computing reaches the threshold it's viable. What can stop the US / NSA / CIA from using to to crack RSA and not inform you? That's right nothing. Only thing that's viable to do in protecting your data is to make it uninteresting.

Also how do you know the parts sourced for the Pine Tablet could not be compromised?

When you buy a product from a company you are still at the mercy of them.

[Omega]

Originally posted by Product ∏:

Originally posted by Crosseyed Mie:

That's basically what DNS66 is.

smh you do know what the "PRISM" project was right?
I guess not.


What about your mobile phone? It still has to exchange authentication information and device data with the carrier. Or better yet what about GPS? You think the US is bad, did you know a lot of companies are using the GPS version called Baidu this can not only receive but it can also transmit. 2000 characters to be exact meaning it's bidirectional not the other way around.

Also once Quantum computing reaches the threshold it's viable. What can stop the US / NSA / CIA from using to to crack RSA and not inform you? That's right nothing. Only thing that's viable to do in protecting your data is to make it uninteresting.

Also how do you know the parts sourced for the Pine Tablet could not be compromised?

When you buy a product from a company you are still at the mercy of them.

Your rant is completely off-topic and irrelevant. Are you just posting random stuff, disagreeing with everything in an attempt to feel smart? You want a pointless argument completely irrelevant to the original topic? Then as you wish, here it comes..

PRISM is a US-only thing. Besides that I am not too concerned about the government sifting though my data. I disaprove of the fact that data is used in this way (assuming it actually is), but it will not actively be abused which is what corporations are doing.

Both the Pinephone and LibreM have hardware killswitches which will physically kill the power to your modem, cameras and microphones at will. If you care about that.

The LibreM only runs free software and firmware. Any puposefully included exploit/bug would have to be hardware level.

The Pinephone currently runs a proprietary OS on it's modem. The community is working on replacing it. Also it's wireless chip runs proprietary firmware.

In case you don't know: Software has a lot more control over the device then firmware does. Firmware does little more then define the behaviour of a component.

If Quantum computers ever become capable of cracking encryption new standards will be created which are (pretty much) uncrackable. Quantum can break encryption, but also improve it.

You can not say for certain that the hardware in the Pinetab was not bugged. But anyone with common sense would just assume that it is not unless they have a reason to believe otherwise. Hardware bugs are horrible way to backdoor a machine, so I doubt anyone is actually doing it unless it's a targeted attack on specific people.

Pine64 is not a traditional company, it's a community of random people working together on the internet in their free time to build awesome devices. Pine64 is nothing more then a front-end, through which the devices are ordered from hardware manufacturers


If you are paranoid get the Librem 5 USA, most of it's chips are produced in the US.

[iceman1980]

Originally posted by Omega:

Originally posted by Product ∏:

smh you do know what the "PRISM" project was right?
I guess not.


What about your mobile phone? It still has to exchange authentication information and device data with the carrier. Or better yet what about GPS? You think the US is bad, did you know a lot of companies are using the GPS version called Baidu this can not only receive but it can also transmit. 2000 characters to be exact meaning it's bidirectional not the other way around.

Also once Quantum computing reaches the threshold it's viable. What can stop the US / NSA / CIA from using to to crack RSA and not inform you? That's right nothing. Only thing that's viable to do in protecting your data is to make it uninteresting.

Also how do you know the parts sourced for the Pine Tablet could not be compromised?

When you buy a product from a company you are still at the mercy of them.

Your rant is completely off-topic and irrelevant. Are you just posting random stuff, disagreeing with everything in an attempt to feel smart? You want a pointless argument completely irrelevant to the original topic? Then as you wish, here it comes..

PRISM is a US-only thing. Besides that I am not too concerned about the government sifting though my data. I disaprove of the fact that data is used in this way (assuming it actually is), but it will not actively be abused which is what corporations are doing.

Both the Pinephone and LibreM have hardware killswitches which will physically kill the power to your modem, cameras and microphones at will. If you care about that.

The LibreM only runs free software and firmware. Any puposefully included exploit/bug would have to be hardware level.

The Pinephone currently runs a proprietary OS on it's modem. The community is working on replacing it. Also it's wireless chip runs proprietary firmware.

In case you don't know: Software has a lot more control over the device then firmware does. Firmware does little more then define the behaviour of a component.

If Quantum computers ever become capable of cracking encryption new standards will be created which are (pretty much) uncrackable. Quantum can break encryption, but also improve it.

You can not say for certain that the hardware in the Pinetab was not bugged. But anyone with common sense would just assume that it is not unless they have a reason to believe otherwise. Hardware bugs are horrible way to backdoor a machine, so I doubt anyone is actually doing it unless it's a targeted attack on specific people.

Pine64 is not a traditional company, it's a community of random people working together on the internet in their free time to build awesome devices. Pine64 is nothing more then a front-end, through which the devices are ordered from hardware manufacturers


If you are paranoid get the Librem 5 USA, most of it's chips are produced in the US.

And I don't care and I don't like you. You said everything I'm already aware of.

[carl]

Originally posted by tonimark:

Originally posted by sawdust3d:

Ok, I've been telling myself for years to do this (Linux). I've got a spare machine to dedicate to learning, so now's the time.

I know there are different versions, so let's say this PC is for mostly paperwork of one sort or another and some gaming.

I'll post specs if necessary, but suffice to say bit's a modern and very capable machine. Currently running Win10.

So where to start?

I contemplated posting this in the Linux for steam forum, but figured I'd wind up more in a Linux/Steam discussion.

Thanks

i am having the same idea of installing linux on my old computer , it can be faster , and no data loss since i have a new computer ,
google also helps there are 2 popular sides:
1.ubuntu: user-friendly for begginers comes pre-packed with application and the interface is based on mac os can also run steam games fine
2.linux arch: designed for proffessionals , complete modular to your needs , has rolling updates (it will update all the time (as long as something is out) but on a small bases without noticing it and also without breaking stuff , linux arch is very solid and doesn't come with anything , so you need to install your applications that you need yourself (music player , file manager(not really), browser , video-media player...) linux arch is also for difficult to use and less friendly user interface

i will try linux arch

If you are new to Linux and not much practice in inputting terminal commands I recommend trying the Manjaro distro for a little try first before diving straight into Arch.

There's no gentle introduction to installation. Partitioning your hard drive with the console commands is one of the first things you'll need to do. However, using a graphical partioning application gparted on a usb can be used as a cheat.

[carl]

Originally posted by Product ∏:

Originally posted by tonimark:

i am having the same idea of installing linux on my old computer , it can be faster , and no data loss since i have a new computer ,
google also helps there are 2 popular sides:
1.ubuntu: user-friendly for begginers comes pre-packed with application and the interface is based on mac os can also run steam games fine
2.linux arch: designed for proffessionals , complete modular to your needs , has rolling updates (it will update all the time (as long as something is out) but on a small bases without noticing it and also without breaking stuff , linux arch is very solid and doesn't come with anything , so you need to install your applications that you need yourself (music player , file manager(not really), browser , video-media player...) linux arch is also for difficult to use and less friendly user interface

i will try linux arch

Arches doc page is one of the best.

Agree. For me the Arch Installation Guide need to be followed word for word literally.

[AD]

Originally posted by Crashed:

Originally posted by AD:

Two options I have used are VNC and TeamViewer (though TeamViewer is proprietary if you care about that). Think it's possible to setup SSH and X to do it, but haven't tried it myself.

If you only need a terminal then SSH works well.

Most Linux distributions these days have the neutrinolabs fork of xrdp. With that installed on a Linux system you can get a desktop from a Windows PC using the built-in Remote Desktop Connection program.

Note the xrdp server works more like the Windows Server Remote Desktop Services and less like the Windows Pro Remote Desktop support; you will be connecting to a fresh desktop instead of the one displaying on the Linux system's monitor.

That might actually be useful for a thing I doing. Thanks!

[Electric Cupcake]

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/04/xinuos-finishes-picking-up-scos-mantle-by-suing-red-hat-and-ibm/

I was unaware of most of this, but it seems like it deserves an arc in the Linux-tan comic.[www.deviantart.com]


Trying to convince a Judge in 2003 that Linux was a Ma Bell/AT&T-authorized derivative of Unix is silly on the face of it, but dredging up complaints again now is downright quixotic. Perhaps they thought that with IBM owning Red Hat now, they would just settle to make it go away?

[tonimark]

Originally posted by Crosseyed Mie:

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/04/xinuos-finishes-picking-up-scos-mantle-by-suing-red-hat-and-ibm/

I was unaware of most of this, but it seems like it deserves an arc in the Linux-tan comic.[www.deviantart.com]


Trying to convince a Judge in 2003 that Linux was a Ma Bell/AT&T-authorized derivative of Unix is silly on the face of it, but dredging up complaints again now is downright quixotic. Perhaps they thought that with IBM owning Red Hat now, they would just settle to make it go away?

the arch linux guide appears to be outdated i try others guides but they didn't work anyone know a good guide? also linux boots in uefi mode but my computer has bios/legancy
edit:just found that my bios has somehow an efi boot option ?! i fixed this by going to boot settings and choosing legancy boot instead weird behavor from an old office pc

[iceman1980]

Originally posted by tonimark:

Originally posted by Crosseyed Mie:

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/04/xinuos-finishes-picking-up-scos-mantle-by-suing-red-hat-and-ibm/

I was unaware of most of this, but it seems like it deserves an arc in the Linux-tan comic.[www.deviantart.com]


Trying to convince a Judge in 2003 that Linux was a Ma Bell/AT&T-authorized derivative of Unix is silly on the face of it, but dredging up complaints again now is downright quixotic. Perhaps they thought that with IBM owning Red Hat now, they would just settle to make it go away?

the arch linux guide appears to be outdated i try others guides but they didn't work anyone know a good guide? also linux boots in uefi mode but my computer has bios/legancy
edit:just found that my bios has somehow an efi boot option ?! i fixed this by going to boot settings and choosing legancy boot instead weird behavor from an old office pc

A lot of Linux OS's will not boot in EFI mode, Fedora will and Ubuntu will. Reading the Arch documents EFI is possible. See you need to familiarise yourself with a lot of tools if you jump into linux.

Everything from
grep
ls
lsmod
modprobe
pwd
journalctl
systemctl
cat
less
more
vim
vi
nano
and so on. You'll often use grep to look through log files.

[tonimark]

Originally posted by Product ∏:

Originally posted by tonimark:

the arch linux guide appears to be outdated i try others guides but they didn't work anyone know a good guide? also linux boots in uefi mode but my computer has bios/legancy
edit:just found that my bios has somehow an efi boot option ?! i fixed this by going to boot settings and choosing legancy boot instead weird behavor from an old office pc

A lot of Linux OS's will not boot in EFI mode, Fedora will and Ubuntu will. Reading the Arch documents EFI is possible. See you need to familiarise yourself with a lot of tools if you jump into linux.

Everything from
grep
ls
lsmod
modprobe
pwd
journalctl
systemctl
cat
less
more
vim
vi
nano
and so on. You'll often use grep to look through log files.

help! i manage to install linux by instruction in bios mode but when i load my system it boots only in grub> shell google won"help what to do?!

[carl]

Originally posted by tonimark:

Originally posted by Product ∏:

A lot of Linux OS's will not boot in EFI mode, Fedora will and Ubuntu will. Reading the Arch documents EFI is possible. See you need to familiarise yourself with a lot of tools if you jump into linux.

Everything from
grep
ls
lsmod
modprobe
pwd
journalctl
systemctl
cat
less
more
vim
vi
nano
and so on. You'll often use grep to look through log files.

help! i manage to install linux by instruction in bios mode but when i load my system it boots only in grub> shell google won"help what to do?!

https://www.linux.com/training-tutorials/how-rescue-non-booting-grub-2-linux/