is there a catch to the Core i5-10400F?

[iHypered]

it's so cheap ($160-170) compared to others that it seems to be ranked high than. it seems to have a low clock speed (2.9 GHz), does having a lot of cores (6) and threads (12) make up for that? it just feels way to good to be true. userbenchmark says its comparable to a i7 8700 which is almost double the price. is this a good upgrade from an i5 6600k for mostly vr games?

[just.kamk /idle]

8700 is outdated, not sure why you're comparing old prices.

Stable boost clock matters, not stock clocks, it's overall a very good CPU.
BUT, the socket is coming to the end of its lifetime, and AMD still has price / performance wise better CPUs in this budget region.

Apropos: your budget and current PC components would benefit any decent discussion about your upgrade path.

[iHypered]

kamk /idle eredeti hozzászólása:

8700 is outdated, not sure why you're comparing old prices.

Stable boost clock matters, not stock clocks, it's overall a very good CPU.
BUT, the socket is coming to the end of its lifetime, and AMD still has price / performance wise better CPUs in this budget region.

Apropos: your budget and current PC components would benefit any decent discussion about your upgrade path.

Sorry for the bad comparison, that's just me not knowing a lot about this stuff. Based on the performance I am trying to get though, if it performed similar to the 8700, I would be happy.

With the AMD thing, are you referencing the Ryzen 5 3500 or 3600? The 3600 seems to be around $40 more expensive so I would probably only go with that if the benefits are a lot better. The 3500 is actually cheaper though but comes with 6 instead of 12 threads. Is that ok with the core being higher? Again, don't know a lot about this stuff.

And with specs, I have a GTX 1060 3GB but I am considering upgrading to a 1070 TI in the future. Also, I have a HP 2B4B motherboard since sockets got brought up

[Julien, cut it out.]

In this budget range:
Wait for the Ryzen 5 3600 to be in stock. Price should be similar to the i5-10400(f), around 175 - 200$.

I assume you want to pair the 10400f with a H470 or B460 chipset (budget build). With such a chipset, the ram frequency is limited up to 2933 MHz (depends on the specific motherboard). You need to be aware that test reviews available on the internet for this CPU might have been done on a Z chipset, combining the CPU with higher frequency RAM (3200 MHz or higher).
This factor might skew the impression of the achievable performance with this CPU on a budget.

Just to give you an idea:
If you were to combine the i5-10400f with 2666 MHz CL15 RAM, the Ryzen 5 3600 with 3200 MHz CL14 will perform better (~ 10%).

Price for the hole package (CPU, RAM, motherboard) should be roughly the same.

[iHypered]

Bananarama eredeti hozzászólása:

In this budget range:
Wait for the Ryzen 5 3600 to be in stock. Price should be similar to the i5-10400(f), around 175 - 200$.

I assume you want to pair the 10400f with a H470 or B460 chipset (budget build). With such a chipset, the ram frequency is limited up to 2933 MHz (depends on the specific motherboard). You need to be aware that test reviews available on the internet for this CPU might have been done on a Z chipset, combining the CPU with higher frequency RAM (3200 MHz or higher).
This factor might skew the impression of the achievable performance with this CPU on a budget.

Just to give you an idea:
If you were to combine the i5-10400f with 2666 MHz CL15 RAM, the Ryzen 5 3600 with 3200 MHz CL14 will perform better (~ 10%).

Price for the hole package (CPU, RAM, motherboard) should be roughly the same.

thank you very much, will side with the Ryzen then.

[Autumn_]

iHypered eredeti hozzászólása:

it's so cheap ($160-170) compared to others that it seems to be ranked high than. it seems to have a low clock speed (2.9 GHz), does having a lot of cores (6) and threads (12) make up for that? it just feels way to good to be true. userbenchmark says its comparable to a i7 8700 which is almost double the price. is this a good upgrade from an i5 6600k for mostly vr games?

It is a pretty decent CPU - but it doesn't have an iGPU, has lower clocks (boost matter, not stock), doesn't use higher than 2666Mhz RAM unless paired with a Z490 board, which is pointless, since it's a locked chip (though if you were to get a Z490 board, it would allow you to overclock on a k chip in the event you upgraded to one.)

Ignore UBM, it's a very biased website for exact performance, they've been known to have a bias towards Intel CPUs.

It is a great upgrade from a 6600k.

kamk /idle eredeti hozzászólása:

8700 is outdated, not sure why you're comparing old prices.

Stable boost clock matters, not stock clocks, it's overall a very good CPU.
BUT, the socket is coming to the end of its lifetime, and AMD still has price / performance wise better CPUs in this budget region.

Apropos: your budget and current PC components would benefit any decent discussion about your upgrade path.

Outdated, but not useless - the midrange CPUs being sold today are 6c12t, and most people are buying 3600/x or 5600x (if they can get their hands on them.)
And the 8700/k is about the same as the 3600/x performance wise. So there's no issue with getting it.
Though, comparing older prices isn't the right way, used prices are a better comparison.

The socket isn't coming to the end of it's life, it's a new socket, LGA1200, made for 10th gen CPUs. It has another generation that's going to come out on it. Just like they did with the generations before.

AMD doesn't, since you would be buying a 3600/x, which is 190 pounds (~220 pounds for the x variant), a B450, or X470 board 90 pounds (Tomahawk MAX), and 3,200Mhz RAM, which is another 80 pounds.
The Intel one comes in cheaper at 140 pounds for the 10400F, 70-110 pounds for the (H410 or H470) motherboard, and 80 pounds for the RAM.

The Intel system would cost ~320 pounds, and the AMD system would cost ~350 pounds.
The AMD system would have more headroom for overclocks and higher memory clocks. Both motherboards would have similar upgrade path, 1 generation of CPUs for both. The power delivery may limit the Intel parts, if you're buying a lower end board, with terrible VRMs.
So it's kind of a moot point in that regard.

https://youtu.be/ge630T9CsC0
As you can see, the 10400F beats the 3600 in every game.
And the x variant is slightly better performing, not enough to be worth the extra 30 pounds though, when you could overclock to make the difference up.

So, Intel does provide the better option, at this current moment in time.

[just.kamk /idle]

Autumn_ eredeti hozzászólása:

Outdated, but not useless - the midrange CPUs being sold today are 6c12t, and most people are buying 3600/x or 5600x (if they can get their hands on them.)
And the 8700/k is about the same as the 3600/x performance wise. So there's no issue with getting it.
Though, comparing older prices isn't the right way, used prices are a better comparison.

Should have taken more time maybe:
Never said it's useless, but it IS outdated,
AND incompatible with his current motherboard, and therefore a rather weird upgrade - to pay the same for something used, that also performs less than a new setup. Nothing wrong with the 8700k in general, still a great CPU.

...

I beg to differ.
Fancy 1080p youtube benchmarks are one thing, reality another.
He wants to play games, primarily VR, which is way above that resolution, and in this regard we are in +/- 1% territory between those two. Doesn't matter if he gets 138 or 139 FPS.
Synthetics and actual software benchmarks see the Ryzen quite ahead though.

Current AMD pricing might be a tiny bit higher, certainly way higher than two months ago, but long term he does have better options as of now (again, as of now, we'll see what Intel brings to the table sooner than later). Considering he want to play VR, and should plan ahead a tiny bit, i'd go for the beefier option to last some time.

Pricing wise i absolutely agree, and you got a very good point there.
Tough decision due current market prices :/


Sidenote:

iHypered eredeti hozzászólása:

[
With the AMD thing, are you referencing the Ryzen 5 3500 or 3600? The 3600 seems to be around $40 more expensive so I would probably only go with that if the benefits are a lot better.

3600(x), or you gonna upgrade sooner than later again. (my 2 cents)

[Illusion of Progress]

Made a reply in a similar thread a week or two back. In short, the Core i5 10400/F is an underrated (or at least overlooked) CPU. For the cost, it is usually one of Intel's best offerings.

The Ryzen 5 3600 is typically a faster CPU than it, so which you go with depends on price.

Months ago, the Core i5 was priced similarly a bit higher than it is now, and the Ryzen was around $180, so the Core i5 was cheaper, but barely so, so it was worth skipping in favor of the faster Ryzen.

By time of that last post, the Ryzen had gone up to ~$230, so the Core i5, which dropped in price, was worth considering for the savings.

Right now, it seems in a few short weeks, the Ryzen has gone back down to ~$200. That's around where I like to see it at most.

Prices (and availability) may differ in your locale, so which is better depends on that. If the Ryzen is available and not much more expensive, I'd go for it. If the Core i5 is much cheaper, it's about as good. One other thing that may play in is if you already have RAM you want to reuse, which may be older and slower relative to the 3,200 MHz to 3,600 MHz+ stuff that's more "standard" if buying today. That would swing the value aspect even more in favor of Intel, as it's limited to 2,666 MHz RAM anyway.

[DaveCoin]

You have a lot of answers, but i will tell you: memoryspeed does not really matter on intel. it does a bit, but not a lot. The ryzen 5 3600 is now way to expansive. if it and the 10400f are the same pryze, ryzen one is better, but not if it is more expensive. so you could just go for it

[Autumn_]

DaveCoin eredeti hozzászólása:

You have a lot of answers, but i will tell you: memoryspeed does not really matter on intel. it does a bit, but not a lot. The ryzen 5 3600 is now way to expansive. if it and the 10400f are the same pryze, ryzen one is better, but not if it is more expensive. so you could just go for it

Memory speed has a similar effect with Ryzen as it does with Intel - Only Zen1 and Zen1+ cared about RAM speed that much, Zen2 and Zen3 perform just like Intel when it comes to RAM.