Futureproof Motherboards

[temps]

I have heard some people claim this is a bad time to build a PC because the current PC motherboards will no longer be supported by future graphics cards or CPUs people may want to upgrade to because people say motherboard technology will likely go to AM5 and dump AM4 when DDR5 RAM becomes available, or something like that. (Meaning that a motherboard upgrade will soon be required to upgrade important PC components).

What do you guys think?

====================================

EDIT: To clarify, when I talked about future-proofing a PC build, I am referring to the attempt to ensure I get a CPU/motherboard combination that will last for several years into the future by means of being compatible with future CPU/GPU upgrades.

Ideally I am hoping to simply upgrade the GPU in several years, and not need to upgrade anything else to prolong the gaming life of the PC. If needed, I hope to be ABLE to upgrade the CPU without having to upgrade the entire motherboard and reconnect everything. (This is what I was talking about when I mentioned future-proofing).

The GPU doesn't need to be "future-proof" for purposes of this discussion because imo GPUs are relatively easy to upgrade compared to the motherboard.

EDIT 2: Some seem upset over the use of the word "futureproof." To clarify -- what I mean by that is essentially simply a prolonged (but not indefinite) state of motherboard compatibility with future CPU/GPU upgrades, not the idea that some particular PC component can last forever if you spend more.

[r.linder]

Publicado originalmente por Autumn_:

Publicado originalmente por DarkStarClassic:

Yesterday most of my PC parts arrived!!!

Only waiting on my ASUS VIII Dark Hero 4.0 PCIe and RADEON LQ ASUS 6800XT my so my build is complete(for now i have RADEON VII LQ

I'm building a PC right now from a Intel 3770k from 2012 to a AMD AM4 5950X 16c/32t with 32GB G-skill 3800mhz cl14(coming from 16GB DDR3) to a super fast SSD 980PRO 14x times faster then my old SSD.

Waiting for my 6800XT custom card this SYSTEM will last me at least 5 years this seems FUTURE PROOF to me. On a side node i will stay at best 1440p monitor i can get so not planning on 4K.

I'm set for future(i really don't care what others say about future proof or not).

I just have one question; if you keep running the latest software, or games, will you see a decline in performance over time?

It's a trick question. You absolutely will see a decline if you're always running the latest games and potentially software depending on what parts of the system it benefits from.

Look at the 2080 Ti vs the 3070, they're basically the same, with the 3070 often matching or beating it, and it costs less than half of what the 2080 Ti did before RTX 30 was announced. That one card releasing put the 2080 Ti from top end all the way down to upper mid range/lower high end. The 2080 Ti will be a joke next generation.

[🦜Cloud Boy🦜]

Publicado originalmente por Escorve:

Publicado originalmente por 🌈Cloud Boy🌈:

It's true no one can know the future. But we can predict the future by looking at the past records. And it's fairly accurate, as i have shown in the comment #12.

And what i said about i7 8700k is 100% accurate. It is a fair bit faster than Ryzen 3600x, without even overclocking.

Gaming benchmarks from 0.40 min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5srxAVJTJ9Y

Nobody can accurately predict the future. It's always either pure luck or very possible insight, but with computer technology it's always uncertain unless you're actually a part of the development yourself.

Nobody could have accurately predicted that AMD would go from a laughing stock with a risk of declaring bankruptcy and constantly changing leadership to not only recovering, but rising to its peak performance since the company's founding in a mere 3~4 years. Nobody but blind fan boys would have made predictions like that even all they had was simple Zen architecture which was barely equal to Haswell in gaming performance. It wasn't until around Zen2 that people really started seeing the progress that AMD was actually making that it really became a turning point.

Over the course of merely ~4 years, Intel went from being the undisputed god of computer processors to an utter joke because AMD made more progress with their processors than Intel did over the past decade in less than half that time, and even when AMD was actually taking customers away from Intel, they could do basically nothing to stop it and instead chose to bolster their higher end chips while continuing to flip off their loyal budget users.

TL;DR -- You're not psychic. I'm not psychic. Neither of us know with one-hundred percent certainty what PC hardware will come to in the near future, so we should absolutely never assume that the best hardware right now is going to remain very relevant in 5 years, because it won't. Competition has pushed both CPUs and GPUs to new heights in the last 2 years, it's only getting faster because 3 major semiconductor corporations are constantly duking it out to get the most profit.

AMD gained overall around 20% performance from Zen2 to Zen3 which was easily enough to catch up to most overclocked Intel chips and that doesn't even take into consideration that you can overclock Zen3 to a certain degree if you want to use more expensive cooling solutions. 2020 easily showed that AMD's progress is only accelerating.

Yes, i agree with you that a company's rise and fall can't be predicted. Same as stock market's up & down can't be predicted. But here we (and the OP) is not talking about the general future of the world / economy. We are talking about a PC hardware's future-proofing. aka, How long a PC hardware will last (or serve you) approximately. That's the thing we definitely CAN predict by looking at the past records AND the ongoing market trends. Just like I have given an example of GTX 1080Ti and i7 8700k in comment # 12.

[r.linder]

Publicado originalmente por 🌈Cloud Boy🌈:

Publicado originalmente por Escorve:

Nobody can accurately predict the future. It's always either pure luck or very possible insight, but with computer technology it's always uncertain unless you're actually a part of the development yourself.

Nobody could have accurately predicted that AMD would go from a laughing stock with a risk of declaring bankruptcy and constantly changing leadership to not only recovering, but rising to its peak performance since the company's founding in a mere 3~4 years. Nobody but blind fan boys would have made predictions like that even all they had was simple Zen architecture which was barely equal to Haswell in gaming performance. It wasn't until around Zen2 that people really started seeing the progress that AMD was actually making that it really became a turning point.

Over the course of merely ~4 years, Intel went from being the undisputed god of computer processors to an utter joke because AMD made more progress with their processors than Intel did over the past decade in less than half that time, and even when AMD was actually taking customers away from Intel, they could do basically nothing to stop it and instead chose to bolster their higher end chips while continuing to flip off their loyal budget users.

TL;DR -- You're not psychic. I'm not psychic. Neither of us know with one-hundred percent certainty what PC hardware will come to in the near future, so we should absolutely never assume that the best hardware right now is going to remain very relevant in 5 years, because it won't. Competition has pushed both CPUs and GPUs to new heights in the last 2 years, it's only getting faster because 3 major semiconductor corporations are constantly duking it out to get the most profit.

AMD gained overall around 20% performance from Zen2 to Zen3 which was easily enough to catch up to most overclocked Intel chips and that doesn't even take into consideration that you can overclock Zen3 to a certain degree if you want to use more expensive cooling solutions. 2020 easily showed that AMD's progress is only accelerating.

Yes, i agree with you that a company's rise and fall can't be predicted. Same as stock market's up & down can't be predicted. But here we (and the OP) is not talking about the general future of the world / economy. We are talking about a PC hardware's future-proofing. aka, How long a PC hardware will last (or serve you) approximately. That's the thing we definitely CAN predict by looking at the past records AND the ongoing market trends. Just like I have given an example of GTX 1080Ti and i7 8700k in comment # 12.

You're not getting the point. These companies are directly involved with the creation of those hardware products, and heavy competition has drastically changed the playing field.

Do you not realise that if it were not for Ryzen, we'd STILL be using 4C/4T i5s and 4C/8T i7s? Intel had no intention of raising the bar, they would've kept it going for as long as they could, and it was far from dead at the time of Ryzen's announcement and release.

Something as simple as Zen was enough to push the whole playing field further because it has massive influence on the market as a whole, which becomes a domino effect that affects software because developers can now add support for additional cores and threads for the general populace instead of just for HEDT users. We went from a 4 core standard to a 6 core standard practically overnight by the standards in the past where 4 cores lasted considerably longer as the high end. 6 cores will not last nearly as long as 4 cores did.

The bar is ever raising, it's not going to stop. Futureproofing is dead, it only exists to give reason to overspenders.

[temps]

Publicado originalmente por Escorve:

Publicado originalmente por 🌈Cloud Boy🌈:

Yes, i agree with you that a company's rise and fall can't be predicted. Same as stock market's up & down can't be predicted. But here we (and the OP) is not talking about the general future of the world / economy. We are talking about a PC hardware's future-proofing. aka, How long a PC hardware will last (or serve you) approximately. That's the thing we definitely CAN predict by looking at the past records AND the ongoing market trends. Just like I have given an example of GTX 1080Ti and i7 8700k in comment # 12.

You're not getting the point. These companies are directly involved with the creation of those hardware products, and heavy competition has drastically changed the playing field.

Do you not realise that if it were not for Ryzen, we'd STILL be using 4C/4T i5s and 4C/8T i7s? Intel had no intention of raising the bar, they would've kept it going for as long as they could, and it was far from dead at the time of Ryzen's announcement and release.

Something as simple as Zen was enough to push the whole playing field further because it has massive influence on the market as a whole, which becomes a domino effect that affects software because developers can now add support for additional cores and threads for the general populace instead of just for HEDT users. We went from a 4 core standard to a 6 core standard practically overnight by the standards in the past where 4 cores lasted considerably longer as the high end. 6 cores will not last nearly as long as 4 cores did.

The bar is ever raising, it's not going to stop. Futureproofing is dead, it only exists to give reason to overspenders.

Does this imply you think an 8 core CPU like the Ryzen 5800X is a better value than the Ryzen 5600X for gamers?

[r.linder]

Publicado originalmente por temps:

Publicado originalmente por Escorve:

You're not getting the point. These companies are directly involved with the creation of those hardware products, and heavy competition has drastically changed the playing field.

Do you not realise that if it were not for Ryzen, we'd STILL be using 4C/4T i5s and 4C/8T i7s? Intel had no intention of raising the bar, they would've kept it going for as long as they could, and it was far from dead at the time of Ryzen's announcement and release.

Something as simple as Zen was enough to push the whole playing field further because it has massive influence on the market as a whole, which becomes a domino effect that affects software because developers can now add support for additional cores and threads for the general populace instead of just for HEDT users. We went from a 4 core standard to a 6 core standard practically overnight by the standards in the past where 4 cores lasted considerably longer as the high end. 6 cores will not last nearly as long as 4 cores did.

The bar is ever raising, it's not going to stop. Futureproofing is dead, it only exists to give reason to overspenders.

Does this imply you think an 8 core CPU like the Ryzen 5800X is a better value than the Ryzen 5600X for gamers?

Could very well be. Some games do scale above 6 already.

[🦜Cloud Boy🦜]

Publicado originalmente por Escorve:

Could very well be. Some games do scale above 6 already.

No games scales over 6c/12t to date.
Overclocked i5 10600k has the same performance as i9 10900k.
6 core VS 10 cores.

[Autumn_]

Publicado originalmente por 🌈Cloud Boy🌈:

Publicado originalmente por Escorve:

Could very well be. Some games do scale above 6 already.

No games scales over 6c/12t to date.
Overclocked i5 10600k has the same performance as i9 10900k.
6 core VS 10 cores.

Except there are; I remember a while ago there was testing done on Death Stranding, regarding 24 threads.

Here : https://twitter.com/CapFrameX/status/1283460640846356481/photo/1
If you look, it scales pretty well to 16 threads, then has marginal (but notable) increases to 24 threads.

Just because you see older games using ~4-6, and somewhat newer (past couple of years) using ~6-8 threads doesn't mean that there will never be games that use more, or that there aren't games already.
If I'm not mistaken the latest, or 2nd latest Assassins Creed game scaled quite well too.

[vadim]

I've seen completely different benchmarks of the same game

[🦜Cloud Boy🦜]

Publicado originalmente por Autumn_:

Publicado originalmente por 🌈Cloud Boy🌈:

No games scales over 6c/12t to date.
Overclocked i5 10600k has the same performance as i9 10900k.
6 core VS 10 cores.

Except there are; I remember a while ago there was testing done on Death Stranding, regarding 24 threads.

Here : https://twitter.com/CapFrameX/status/1283460640846356481/photo/1
If you look, it scales pretty well to 16 threads, then has marginal (but notable) increases to 24 threads.

Just because you see older games using ~4-6, and somewhat newer (past couple of years) using ~6-8 threads doesn't mean that there will never be games that use more, or that there aren't games already.
If I'm not mistaken the latest, or 2nd latest Assassins Creed game scaled quite well too.

Yes, i know games are starting to use more cores / threads. That's a part of the ongoing market trends and shown by the past records (as i mentioned in comment # 32), which you need to look at when choosing (buying) new hardware to make your build future-proof. That's what i have said in my first comment in this thread, that 8c/16t is what you need to be safe for 5+ years.

They are all part of future-proofing.
So, ''Future-proofing'' does not exist is WRONG. You can build a very good Future-Proof (what meant by the OP or others who come here to seek advice) machine if you know what to buy. That will last a long time. More than anyone expect from a PC hardware.

[🦜Cloud Boy🦜]

*More than what anyone expects from a PC hardware.

[dOBER]

Publicado originalmente por AustrAlien2010:

Buying anything new, is a bad idea. It is just an opinion, really. You can buy 2nd-hand for a 10th of the cost, you would normally pay for it.

Or you buy every time something new it comes out and you have to pay only very small fee to upgrade your hardware. For me it works very well and sometimes things sell for nearly orginal price 2nd hand. For every year you keep your hardware price will drop massive.

[Ralf]

Publicado originalmente por temps:

If I get a motherboard now and I want to upgrade my CPU or GPU sometime in the next several years, it would kinda suck if I find out my motherboard is not even compatible with my proposed CPU/GPU upgrades.

I'd have to get a new motherboard and reconnect everything to make the upgrades work. It's some labor and expense I was hoping to avoid, if possible.

I think you're are 3 years late for this or 1-2 years too early. You could buy a 1st gen AM4 board in 2017 like the Taichi and upgrade to Zen 3 now(either wait for beta bios or flash the X470 bios).

It's a pretty bad time now to buy a new cpu+mobo because isn't Zen 3 the last version of AM4 and won't Rocket Lake be the last LGA1200 cpu? So they are not future proof for you.
And about the gpu compatibility, not so bright people like to spread BS around that GDDR5/6/6X gpu's won't work with DDR4/5/6 mobo's because they dont match.

[🦜Cloud Boy🦜]

Does Future-Proof PC exists?
Yes of course, Here is a future-Proof PC.
i7 10700k + RTX 3080+ 32 GB Ram. This PC will serve you for LONG LONG time.

If you still want more Future-Proof, Here is another, i9 10900k+ RTX 3090+ 64 GB Ram.
It will lasts LONG LONG LONG LONG time. Just like GTX 1080Ti is a 5 years OLD and still very capable (more powerful than RTX 2070 Super). Or just like i7 8700k, which is already 3 years old, and will still go a long long way. New hardware does not instantly make old hardware obsolete.

Those ^ above PCs will last more than anyone would expects from his PC hardware.

No one expects his PC to lasts for 50 years, nor 30 years, nor even 20 years, when people comes to hardware forum for PC buying advice. So telling them ''Future-proof PC does not exists'' is a miss information.

[r.linder]

Publicado originalmente por 🌈Cloud Boy🌈:

Does Future-Proof PC exists?
Yes of course, Here is a future-Proof PC.
i7 10700k + RTX 3080+ 32 GB Ram. This PC will serve you for LONG LONG time.

If you still want more Future-Proof, Here is another, i9 10900k+ RTX 3090+ 64 GB Ram.
It will lasts LONG LONG LONG LONG time. Just like GTX 1080Ti is a 5 years OLD and still very capable (more powerful than RTX 2070 Super). Or just like i7 8700k, which is already 3 years old, and will still go a long long way. New hardware does not instantly make old hardware obsolete.

Those ^ above PCs will last more than anyone would expects from his PC hardware.

No one expects his PC to lasts for 50 years, nor 30 years, nor even 20 years, when people comes to hardware forum for PC buying advice. So telling them ''Future-proof PC does not exists'' is a miss information.

Do you understand what the idea of futureproofing means? The whole point is a scam to get people to pay more because they think their system specs will last a long time.

For general use, sure, any PC will last 10+ years. Gaming? Not even close if you want to consistently play new games at a high framerate with maxed settings.

[🦜Cloud Boy🦜]

Publicado originalmente por Escorve:

Publicado originalmente por 🌈Cloud Boy🌈:

Does Future-Proof PC exists?
Yes of course, Here is a future-Proof PC.
i7 10700k + RTX 3080+ 32 GB Ram. This PC will serve you for LONG LONG time.

If you still want more Future-Proof, Here is another, i9 10900k+ RTX 3090+ 64 GB Ram.
It will lasts LONG LONG LONG LONG time. Just like GTX 1080Ti is a 5 years OLD and still very capable (more powerful than RTX 2070 Super). Or just like i7 8700k, which is already 3 years old, and will still go a long long way. New hardware does not instantly make old hardware obsolete.

Those ^ above PCs will last more than anyone would expects from his PC hardware.

No one expects his PC to lasts for 50 years, nor 30 years, nor even 20 years, when people comes to hardware forum for PC buying advice. So telling them ''Future-proof PC does not exists'' is a miss information.

Do you understand what the idea of futureproofing means? The whole point is a scam to get people to pay more because they think their system specs will last a long time.

For general use, sure, any PC will last 10+ years. Gaming? Not even close if you want to consistently play new games at a high framerate with maxed settings.

Then how come GTX 1080 Ti which is a 5 years old card, can still play all games 1440p 144Hz monitor just fine, and is more powerful than RTX 2070 Super. And will easily last for ANOTHER few years. That makes it 7+ years.

How? Does it NOT future-proof?