i9-10900X vs i9-9900K Which is better?

[mimizukari]

topic

[xSOSxHawkens]

Първоначално публикувано от Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

Intel wins in somethings due to the better IPC, which was the high clock speeds, and lower latency. Draw back is the price point.

Ryzen is pretty good, it has the edge in the price area since they're cheaper compare to the intel of things.

If you want to save I do also recommend AMD, but if want the best, which is just squeezing the lemon for all it's drops is going to be intel. Get what you want what you think best for you really, all games varies, and in some games AMD and intel can be neck to neck, or one has the lead over the other depending on the game.

Intel has actaully fallen behind AMD in IPC for *everything* except gaming as of Zen2, and has closed gaming IPC to within margin of error, see here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmxkpTtwx1k

As you can see, in every single real world non-game workload AMD has surpassed Intel in clock for clock IPC.

Only in games can intel hold a lead and *barely* does so with margins so small that most are within margin of error

AMD smacks them with both Single Chip (3800x) and Multi-Chip (3900x) designs too ;)

All chips locked to 4Ghz/8c

[mimizukari]

Първоначално публикувано от xSOSxHawkens:

Първоначално публикувано от Kurumi Tokisaki:

lol where are you getting it for $1000? they are only $600. also AMD ryzen 3950x does not perform as well in games as 9900k/10900X, AMD is not an option for serious gaming, only for workstations.

First price...

https://www.amazon.com/Intel-i9-10900X-Desktop-Processor-Unlocked/dp/B07YP69HTM

Amazon, 2 new form 999 and up...

Now the performance part. Sorry, but your wrong. AMD/Intel gaming performance is so close now that in most titles its within margin of error. Yes, Intel does still generally take the top of that margin, but the difference in almost *all* titles in sub-5 FPS...

If you would rather spend $1,000 on a weaker CPU for "gaming" b/c it gets 5 frames more despite being masively underpowered and overpriced elsewise, well, that simply makes you the type of ignorant cow consumer that causes parts makers to slap "Gamer" on everytyhing, b/c you dont actually buy whats best, you buy the "gamers" option...

By all means, spend 1,000 (or 800) and get the extra 3-5fps (or less) while the rest of us actualy get more b/c we spent the aditional 200-500 bucks on a better GPU. Meanwhile when you are done gaming and want to edit/render that 4k footage enjoy the wait with less cores.

amazon is not the only vendor, infact, they aren't even a reputable vendor since it's third partys, same risk as eBay... buy from authorized retailers.

https://www.google.com/shopping/product/14721166211271319314?q=i9-10900x&sxsrf=ACYBGNSQUU8-xzdQ43Fjsl6FGLxJs9D2GQ:1581568917012&biw=1920&bih=947&prds=epd:4127904131700987057,paur:ClkAsKraX53eKI1-XR_rV-Peo2wXJFdCNBZnt9TSK8tvKVD4jeD1_zPi95KYhAQZV4v58w8NACpesBUKz3Z0ADh7UvFS4_IkPnDMmalqvI-PsGw2N9WNgowXphIZAFPVH73SWhBPlKhcMbuCKVwK4v-xLdF-9g,prmr:1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjqh5Ot283nAhWFrZ4KHVvXAV4Q8wIIhgQ

$649 is current going price.

Първоначално публикувано от ЯΣП:

Първоначално публикувано от Kurumi Tokisaki:

but 10900X oc can reach some insane levels, almost stock 10980XE performance for gaming, according to the benchmarks in that video.

Curious, can it hit something as high as 5ghz all core and not be able to work as a burner on an electric stove?

yes you can hit 5 GHz with 240mm liquid cooling

[xSOSxHawkens]

Първоначално публикувано от Kurumi Tokisaki:

amazon is not the only vendor, infact, they aren't even a reputable vendor since it's third partys, same risk as eBay... buy from authorized retailers.

https://www.google.com/shopping/product/14721166211271319314?q=i9-10900x&sxsrf=ACYBGNSQUU8-xzdQ43Fjsl6FGLxJs9D2GQ:1581568917012&biw=1920&bih=947&prds=epd:4127904131700987057,paur:ClkAsKraX53eKI1-XR_rV-Peo2wXJFdCNBZnt9TSK8tvKVD4jeD1_zPi95KYhAQZV4v58w8NACpesBUKz3Z0ADh7UvFS4_IkPnDMmalqvI-PsGw2N9WNgowXphIZAFPVH73SWhBPlKhcMbuCKVwK4v-xLdF-9g,prmr:1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjqh5Ot283nAhWFrZ4KHVvXAV4Q8wIIhgQ

$649 is current going price.

Ok, and...

https://www.ebay.com/p/24033154230?iid=383190245471&chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=383190245471&targetid=856845804380&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9033614&poi=&campaignid=6470719577&mkgroupid=81597521270&rlsatarget=pla-856845804380&abcId=1140476&merchantid=101566786&gclid=CjwKCAiA4Y7yBRB8EiwADV1haXmfOEWNA55RpRq9Bfsddm8lJgEyD1HwSGvdZpM0JSCqgvchfBaHxhoCYNEQAvD_BwE

Sold *by newegg* on ebay, 12c/24t @ $450

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i9-10900X-vs-AMD-Ryzen-9-3900X/m969950vs4044|

^^PROOF^^ exact same performance (1% faster actually) for 1-8 threads, aprox +20% faster for high thread loads, $200USD less price...

That 200 bucks can go into a proper PCIe 4.0 SSD that will be 500GB to 1TB in size with better than 5GB/s reads... Or a better GPU.

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

Първоначално публикувано от xSOSxHawkens:

Първоначално публикувано от Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

Intel wins in somethings due to the better IPC, which was the high clock speeds, and lower latency. Draw back is the price point.

Ryzen is pretty good, it has the edge in the price area since they're cheaper compare to the intel of things.

If you want to save I do also recommend AMD, but if want the best, which is just squeezing the lemon for all it's drops is going to be intel. Get what you want what you think best for you really, all games varies, and in some games AMD and intel can be neck to neck, or one has the lead over the other depending on the game.

Intel has actaully fallen behind AMD in IPC for *everything* except gaming as of Zen2, and has closed gaming IPC to within margin of error, see here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmxkpTtwx1k

As you can see, in every single real world non-game workload AMD has surpassed Intel in clock for clock IPC.

Only in games can intel hold a lead and *barely* does so with margins so small that most are within margin of error

AMD smacks them with both Single Chip (3800x) and Multi-Chip (3900x) designs too ;)

All chips locked to 4Ghz/8c

The way I post is what it stands for, not saying Ryzen isn't good, and not saying it isn't better than intel in other things. But for gaming wise since I assume that what OP wants most, Intel still holds that spot, and pretty what I was saying from my 1st post. Otherwise I wouldn't be answer the question really but push for AMD instead hard.
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/11/1750148517262285074/?tscn=1581568900#c1750148517262377883

When doing clock to clock, we can see there issue for Intel, but who would go out of their way to downclock their intel cpu's just to game? No one. At best people would either use stock, or overclock, ATM Ryzen has the Infinity fabric which all great draw back is always the overclock when compare to intel been that way since 2017, which yea I'm still going to hold that to them until they can finally fix that problem which hopefully they will in time.

$530+ 9900k
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/jHZFf7/intel-core-i9-9900k-36ghz-8-core-processor-bx80684i99900k

$600+ 10900x
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/r4NgXL/intel-core-i9-10900x-37-ghz-10-core-processor-bx8069510900x

$470+
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/tLCD4D/amd-ryzen-9-3900x-36-ghz-12-core-processor-100-100000023box

- edit -

OP I just want to be clear about this, because idk what your goal, if you just want the best of things which cost quite a lot of money, or just want a good gaming experience, which yes you can get good gaming experience with Ryzen which is much cheaper.

Now please note the i9 10900x is on a larger socket, but also the fact that motherboard for it is not exactly cheap hence the draw back of it being pricey, you can get 9900k and motherboard which will be cheaper maybe like $200 and up cheaper, or going with Ryzen being $350 and up cheaper, which again not sure if you really want the top of the top to say hey I got bad ass hardware, or just want good gaming experience.

[xSOSxHawkens]

Първоначално публикувано от Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

Първоначално публикувано от xSOSxHawkens:

Intel has actaully fallen behind AMD in IPC for *everything* except gaming as of Zen2, and has closed gaming IPC to within margin of error, see here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmxkpTtwx1k

As you can see, in every single real world non-game workload AMD has surpassed Intel in clock for clock IPC.

Only in games can intel hold a lead and *barely* does so with margins so small that most are within margin of error

AMD smacks them with both Single Chip (3800x) and Multi-Chip (3900x) designs too ;)

All chips locked to 4Ghz/8c

The way I post is what it stands for, not saying Ryzen isn't good, and not saying it isn't better than intel in other things. But for gaming wise since I assume that what OP wants most, Intel still holds that spot, and pretty what I was saying from my 1st post. Otherwise I wouldn't be answer the question really but push for AMD instead hard.
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/11/1750148517262285074/?tscn=1581568900#c1750148517262377883

When doing clock to clock, we can see there issue for Intel, but who would go out of their way to downclock their intel cpu's just to game? No one. At best people would either use stock, or overclock, ATM Ryzen has the Infinity fabric which all great draw back is always the overclock when compare to intel been that way since 2017, which yea I'm still going to hold that to them until they can finally fix that problem which hopefully they will in time.

What you are ignoring is that even *with* an OC the difference in gaming only is negligable. Its not a big enough difference to be taken seriously in any capacity as a purchase factor. We are not talking about an average uplift of 20-30% by running Intel. We are talking about an average uplift of 5, maybe 8% tops when you look at gaming as a whole.

Now, even if the person intends to mainly game, which is smarter, suggesting a 100FPS gaming CPU that is outclassed everywhere else, or suggest a 95FPS CPU that is better in almost all other use cases?...

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

Първоначално публикувано от xSOSxHawkens:

Първоначално публикувано от Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

The way I post is what it stands for, not saying Ryzen isn't good, and not saying it isn't better than intel in other things. But for gaming wise since I assume that what OP wants most, Intel still holds that spot, and pretty what I was saying from my 1st post. Otherwise I wouldn't be answer the question really but push for AMD instead hard.
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/11/1750148517262285074/?tscn=1581568900#c1750148517262377883

When doing clock to clock, we can see there issue for Intel, but who would go out of their way to downclock their intel cpu's just to game? No one. At best people would either use stock, or overclock, ATM Ryzen has the Infinity fabric which all great draw back is always the overclock when compare to intel been that way since 2017, which yea I'm still going to hold that to them until they can finally fix that problem which hopefully they will in time.

What you are ignoring is that even *with* an OC the difference in gaming only is negligable. Its not a big enough difference to be taken seriously in any capacity as a purchase factor. We are not talking about an average uplift of 20-30% by running Intel. We are talking about an average uplift of 5, maybe 8% tops when you look at gaming as a whole.

Now, even if the person intends to mainly game, which is smarter, suggesting a 100FPS gaming CPU that is outclassed everywhere else, or suggest a 95FPS CPU that is better in almost all other use cases?...

Re-read my post, you seem to misunderstood my post.

[Squirrell]

Първоначално публикувано от xSOSxHawkens:

Intel has actaully fallen behind AMD in IPC for *everything* except gaming as of Zen2, and has closed gaming IPC to within margin of error, see here:

That guy is a nong. He isn't measuring IPC.

First, fps doesn't measure IPC.

Second, an IPC test is 1 cpu thread only, using a pre-defined instruction set that executes the exact same instructions in the same order on the cpus being tested.

Third, an IPC test does not use a game which has 50 threads, and calls a shotload of windows, directx and steam dll's. And where nothing is synchronous. And does a lot disk and other i/o which means the cpu will halt waiting for data.

More or less he is measuring rush-hour traffic flow to determine the top speed of cars.

You will note that cars in rush-hour traffic tend to move at the same speed.

[xSOSxHawkens]

Първоначално публикувано от Squirrell:

Първоначално публикувано от xSOSxHawkens:

Intel has actaully fallen behind AMD in IPC for *everything* except gaming as of Zen2, and has closed gaming IPC to within margin of error, see here:

That guy is a nong. He isn't measuring IPC.

First, fps doesn't measure IPC.

Second, an IPC test is 1 cpu thread only using a pre-defined instruction set that executes the exact same instructions in the same order on the cpus being tested.

Third, an IPC test does not use a game which has 50 threads, and calls a shotload of windows, directx and steam dll's. And where nothing is synchronous. And does a lot i/o which means the cpu will halt waiting for data.

More or less he is measuring rush-hour traffic flow to determine the top speed of cars.

First, you know you just called HW-Unboxed a nong right?...

Second, you know you just spewed a bunch of smack talk on one of the most respected names in the PC Hardware comunity, a YT chan that is as well known as Linus Tech Tips, and a tester that is as well known as DeBauer?...

That guy is litterally *invited* to tour the manufacturing faciliies that make most of the parts in your PC ffs...

Basically, you are the guy at the nascar race in the buweiser shirt who fixes cars on the side yelling about how crap the no2 or no3 pit crew is, despite them being some of the most respected or best in their field. You know that right?...

Did you even bother to watch the vid where he tests more than games? Did you bother to listen to the start where he outlined all the controlls used to make it as accurate as possible?

Did you even? Bro?

Get real here, and bring somethign other than your armchair arguments. At least I back mine up with respected reputable information.

[Squirrell]

Първоначално публикувано от xSOSxHawkens:

Първоначално публикувано от Squirrell:

That guy is a nong. He isn't measuring IPC.

First, fps doesn't measure IPC.

Second, an IPC test is 1 cpu thread only using a pre-defined instruction set that executes the exact same instructions in the same order on the cpus being tested.

Third, an IPC test does not use a game which has 50 threads, and calls a shotload of windows, directx and steam dll's. And where nothing is synchronous. And does a lot i/o which means the cpu will halt waiting for data.

More or less he is measuring rush-hour traffic flow to determine the top speed of cars.

First, you know you just called HW-Unboxed a nong right?...

Second, you know you just spewed a bunch of smack talk on one of the most respected names in the PC Hardware comunity, a YT chan that is as well known as Linus Tech Tips, and a tester that is as well known as DeBauer?...

That guy is litterally *invited* to tour the manufacturing faciliies that make most of the parts in your PC ffs...

Basically, you are the guy at the nascar race in the buweiser shirt who fixes cars on the side yelling about how crap the no2 or no3 pit crew is, despite them being some of the most respected or best in their field. You know that right?...

Did you even bother to watch the vid where he tests more than games? Did you bother to listen to the start where he outlined all the controlls used to make it as accurate as possible?

Did you even? Bro?

Get real here, and bring somethign other than your armchair arguments. At least I back mine up with respected reputable information.

Nice try. It still doesn't make it an IPC test.

[r.linder]

Първоначално публикувано от Kurumi Tokisaki:

Първоначално публикувано от xSOSxHawkens:

10900x is a *joke*

10c/20t @ $1,000+...

Meanwhile over in AMD land we have...

12c/24t @ $500 or less regularly (paid 470 for mine) via a 3900x...

For the same 1K from AMD you could get 16c/32t with *great* gaming speeds and workstation speeds *AND* still have $300 left over to put on a better GPU, RAM, SSD (hello PCIe 4.0) or motherboard...

lol where are you getting it for $1000? they are only $600. also AMD ryzen 3950x does not perform as well in games as 9900k/10900X, AMD is not an option for serious gaming, only for workstations.

AMD is an option for serious gaming, it's only around 10% behind Intel.

[Snow]

Първоначално публикувано от Squirrell:

Nice try. It still doesn't make it an IPC test.

You seem to remain the only person on this planet who knows how to make a "true" IPC test. So go on, make one and give us a link, because the rest of us tend to follow tests from respectable sources.
Although I totally agree about HW Unboxed - since they tried to "debunk" Battle(non)sense input delay tests without even understanding the topic, they are a joke to me.

[Squirrell]

What you guys don't know is that IPC is irrelevant as a cpu can never run at its full IPC.

So no-one who actually works as a professional in IT hardware cares less about IPC. Professionals only deal in benchmark performance. I should know because I worked in a one of the world's largest telco / media companies managing IT systems including performance management. Everything from pc's to superclusters.

Here's why IPC is meaningless. I hope you can understand it. Performance isn't closely related to IPC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGO14DjwtxY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLsdS0zQ82c

https://www.androidauthority.com/instructions-per-cycle-gary-explains-705127/

which says -

"in fact it is very rare (if not impossible) that a CPU will run at its full theoretical IPC. "

And for Hawkens -

nong
in Australian slang, nong is used as a pretty mild and/or endearing insult. a bit of a twit, or idiot. nothing too mean or horrid is meant by calling someone a nong.
hey mate, you put your trackie-daks on inside-out, ya silly nong!

[iceman1980]

Първоначално публикувано от Squirrell:

What you guys don't know is that IPC is irrelevant as a cpu can never run at its full IPC.

So no-one who actually works as a professional in IT hardware cares less about IPC. Professionals only deal in benchmark performance. I should know because I worked in a one of the world's largest telco / media companies managing IT systems including performance management. Everything from pc's to superclusters.

Here's why IPC is meaningless. I hope you can understand it. Performance isn't closely related to IPC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGO14DjwtxY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLsdS0zQ82c

https://www.androidauthority.com/instructions-per-cycle-gary-explains-705127/

which says -

"in fact it is very rare (if not impossible) that a CPU will run at its full theoretical IPC. "

And for Hawkens -

nong
in Australian slang, nong is used as a pretty mild and/or endearing insult. a bit of a twit, or idiot. nothing too mean or horrid is meant by calling someone a nong.
hey mate, you put your trackie-daks on inside-out, ya silly nong!

IPC depends on the instruction type. Some CISC instructions are reduced to simplier instructions before execution. It is a rather "pointless metric" when CPUs have hundreds of CPU instructions.

https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-sdm

[Autumn_]

Първоначално публикувано от xSOSxHawkens:

Първоначално публикувано от Squirrell:

That guy is a nong. He isn't measuring IPC.

First, fps doesn't measure IPC.

Second, an IPC test is 1 cpu thread only using a pre-defined instruction set that executes the exact same instructions in the same order on the cpus being tested.

Third, an IPC test does not use a game which has 50 threads, and calls a shotload of windows, directx and steam dll's. And where nothing is synchronous. And does a lot i/o which means the cpu will halt waiting for data.

More or less he is measuring rush-hour traffic flow to determine the top speed of cars.

First, you know you just called HW-Unboxed a nong right?...

Second, you know you just spewed a bunch of smack talk on one of the most respected names in the PC Hardware comunity, a YT chan that is as well known as Linus Tech Tips, and a tester that is as well known as DeBauer?...

That guy is litterally *invited* to tour the manufacturing faciliies that make most of the parts in your PC ffs...

Basically, you are the guy at the nascar race in the buweiser shirt who fixes cars on the side yelling about how crap the no2 or no3 pit crew is, despite them being some of the most respected or best in their field. You know that right?...

Did you even bother to watch the vid where he tests more than games? Did you bother to listen to the start where he outlined all the controlls used to make it as accurate as possible?

Did you even? Bro?

Get real here, and bring somethign other than your armchair arguments. At least I back mine up with respected reputable information.

HW Unboxed are informative at times, though their testing in a lot of things is flawed, GamersNexus is much better in that regard.

As Snow said, I lost a lot of respect abd trust after they failed to understand the latency video, and then bashed B(n)s, while proving his point.
As a knock-on effect, I don't trust Techspot either, since the HWUB guys write for Techspot.
I'm not saying they're bad guy, I'm just saying the worth of their information isn't great.
Der8auer, GamersNexus, LTT (If Anthony does testing), and Battle(non)sense. They're the guys where you should place your trust the most.

Първоначално публикувано от Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

Intel wins in somethings due to the better IPC, which was the high clock speeds, and lower latency. Draw back is the price point.

Ryzen is pretty good, it has the edge in the price area since they're cheaper compare to the intel of things.

If you want to save I do also recommend AMD, but if want the best, which is just squeezing the lemon for all it's drops is going to be intel. Get what you want what you think best for you really, all games varies, and in some games AMD and intel can be neck to neck, or one has the lead over the other depending on the game.

AMD has the higher IPC these days, Intel only has marginal inprovements (like 1% since skylake), the only reasons Intel is so good is because of the arcitectural differences, and the high clockspeed.
And, IPC has nothing to do with clockspeed, the name gives that away 'Instructions per clock/cycle'

But I agree with everything else you said; Get what would benefit you the most.

[R.A.T. Army *MST3K*]

Първоначално публикувано от xSOSxHawkens:

neither.

3800x, 3900x, 3950x or threadripper...

Go 3800x. I recommend it.