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Lewmush Dec 25, 2018 @ 10:46am
best cpu for my mobo
My mobo is a ms 7641 and i currently have a fx 4300. I want to upgrade the cpu as its prooving to be a bottlneck without upgrading my mobo. Whats the best cpu i can get with this.
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Originally posted by Aliquis Freedom & Ethnopluralism:
https://www.pcbitz.com/products/160-motherboards/msi-ms-7641-ver-30-760gm-p23-fx-motherboard-socket-am3-with-backplate/
https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/760gm-p23-fx.html
No idea if those are the same or just about the same.
No idea if you can use the same BIOS: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/760GM-P23-FX
CPU support: https://storage-asset.msi.com/file/test_report/TR19_24433.pdf
FX 8300, 8300, 8310, 8320E, 8370E is mentioned there. All at 95 watt power. 8350 BE is 125 watt so I assume it doesn't support that one then because it's not mentioned. Also maybe it need a BIOS update to support some of them.
"AMD® 760G and SB710 Chipset"
"Supports two unbuffered DIMM of 1.5 Volt DDR3 800/1066/1333 DRAM, 16GB Max"
https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=164599.0
MSI dropped support for the 125 watt FX-8350: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-1845379/msi-pulled-8350-support-p23.html

So.. even if it's not that board I assume it's similar and doesn't have the hardware to support an FX-8350 well. I don't know how the 95 watt parts work but at-least better. Then again maybe you need a BIOS update to whatever version to have support for them.

As for the CPU AMD FX chips had some parts of the cores more separated than they are in the Intel CPUs. As such for an FX-4300 the four separate threads it can run do have their own ALUs and AGUs and none of them can use the resources of another one. Compared to the Intel i3s with just two cores by hyper-threading their cores have more ALUs and AGUs and then can share those for two threads. The result of that is that if one (or two) threads are doing most of the work on the Intel chip since they run at a wider core which is capable of doing more things happen faster whereas on the FX chip they are ran at two more narrow cores moving at a slower face and then there's two other cores/hardware threads which can also do things but not the same thing.
Compare it to kitchens and chefs.
Say the AMD solution would be like having four smaller kitchens with one chef where you for whatever reason can't prepare the same dish in different kitchens (it's just a hardware design limit / just how cores happen to work atm), as such if you get a large order of something only this one kitchen can prepare it and it doesn't matter that you have three other kitchens also ready. They could prepare other dishes but not the same one.
In the Intel i3 case with hyper-threading it would be like having just two twice as large kitchens with two chefs in each. They still don't allow cocking the same food in both kitchens (maybe poor analogy*) but they are fine to share the same kitchen to either prepare this one dish or to split it up to prepare two different ones. In that case if you get a large order of something the larger kitchen can be used to just prepare that order and things happen faster. If you get orders for four different dishes though resources has to be shared and then it's no longer faster.
(Poor because that's not how kitchens work! I kinda wish I had something else to compare with. The reason I use kitchens from the beginning is that ALU and AGU is short for Arithmetic Logic Unit and Address Generation Unit, the later do RAM stuff in whatever way whereas the former do things like addition and subtraction. And in many of the Intel chips you have four of those per core so say like having four places in the kitchen where you can prepare food. In the AMD case though each core have just two units of each so just like having two stations in each kitchen but there's twice as many kitchens. But as a single threads list of commands can't be executed onto multiple cores / say an order not be prepared by multiple kitchens) you end up in a situation where the Intel style kitchen work better for single heavy loads because while each core CAN run two threads it doesn't HAVE too whereas in the AMD case the two cores are ALWAYS separated (not totally true because they actually do share the FPU - Floating Point Unit which do floating point related work so there they are similar but the idea isn't really to be accurate as much as just explaining that each core of the FX processors do less but they have more cores and what the consequences of that are. Ryzen is more similar to Intel. It's even been said that the "back end" of the Ryzen (what it actually could do if it had instructions and data available?) actually should be able to do more per clock but sadly the front-end (actually feeding those parts with instructions and data) isn't keeping up holding it back. Supposedly "Zen2" which will be used for the Ryzen 3000 series parts have improvements in the front-end but now Intel has gone out and said they will release a series of upgraded cores in 2019, 2020 and 2021 which will improve various things in their core design more and more and even more as well so that mean that AMD Ryzen doesn't necessary will outperform Intel these years because Intel will also improve on their design.)

Each thread / list of program instructions can only be executed on one core. In the Intel case the two cores is capable to execute two such lists each but they doesn't have to whereas in the AMD case each one can only do one but instead there's four of them. But the problem is that the heavier thread / program list can't be run on "two cores"!

Now some pretty short time ago / in recent time the claim was that games didn't utilize many threads very well and as such we both had these heavier threads and less usage of any additional cores / hardware threads.
As such it could be expected that having an FX-8320 for instance didn't necessary run a game much faster than an FX-4300 (since it did have 8 cores but that didn't really help all that much unless the game also used them..)

But nowadays games use more threads better so maybe now the FX-8320 do provide more of a performance gain in more modern titles. But on the other hand each core is still slower than in the Intel processors and that will also hold performance back regardless.

So I don't know how much better say a FX-8320E would run. And it seem like it would have to be an E. Which I assume may clock lower than a non-E, or the 8310 or 8300 or the FX-6300 which maybe clock higher but just with 6 cores?

I've seen the Ryzen 3 1400 sell cheap now which I think have 4 cores and 8 threads but it wouldn't work on your motherboard and you'd also need DDR4 to run it so that's not all that optimal.
Used Intel boards and processors exist which would let you keep on using the DDR3 but they may all be a bit insecure now due to Spectre and Meltdown.

I don't know how much you can from an FX-6300 or FX-8320E but those may work. The FX-8320, 8350 and 8370 would likely not even run longer and with an older BIOS maybe they'd run but poorly.

A more modern platform would be better of course but cost more money so there's that. But yeah, at-least don't but a CPU which won't even work on the board. But maybe don't buy one at all.

Also Intel consistently sell the most of their unlocked i7 part (now they have an i9 so maybe that one now), which may be weird considering how many say the i5 part is fine and that may be true for the games out then but clearly it's been the case that games has become more multi-threaded and the i7s had lasted longer there, plus they easier handle running more things at the same time such as OBS for streaming.
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Showing 1-15 of 30 comments
⛧EyMi Mayhem⛧ Dec 25, 2018 @ 10:49am 
fx-8530, but what about the rest of your rig?
And pls be more specific about the bottleneck.
#1
tacoshy Dec 25, 2018 @ 10:49am 
a FX-8350 is the highest you could technicall go without burnign the VRM but even that might be not the best idea espacially since this is a kinda low quality board.

However the evry best option would not to spend into a dead plattform in the first place.
#2
Lewmush Dec 25, 2018 @ 10:51am 
Originally posted by ⛧EyMi Mayhem⛧:
fx-8530, but what about the rest of your rig?
And pls be more specific about the bottleneck.
Computer Information:
Manufacturer: MSI
Model: MS-7641
Form Factor: Desktop
No Touch Input Detected

Processor Information:
CPU Vendor: AuthenticAMD
CPU Brand: AMD FX(tm)-4300 Quad-Core Processor
CPU Family: 0x15
CPU Model: 0x2
CPU Stepping: 0x0
CPU Type: 0x0
Speed: 3800 Mhz
4 logical processors
2 physical processors
HyperThreading: Supported
FCMOV: Supported
SSE2: Supported
SSE3: Supported
SSSE3: Supported
SSE4a: Supported
SSE41: Supported
SSE42: Supported
AES: Supported
AVX: Supported
CMPXCHG16B: Supported
LAHF/SAHF: Supported
PrefetchW: Unsupported

Operating System Version:
Windows 10 (64 bit)
NTFS: Supported
Crypto Provider Codes: Supported 311 0x0 0x0 0x0

Video Card:
Driver: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050
DirectX Driver Name: nvldumd.dll
Driver Version: 24.21.13.9924
DirectX Driver Version: 24.21.13.9924
Driver Date: 9 5 2018
OpenGL Version: 4.6
Desktop Color Depth: 32 bits per pixel
Monitor Refresh Rate: 60 Hz
DirectX Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050
VendorID: 0x10de
DeviceID: 0x1c81
Revision: 0xa1
Number of Monitors: 1
Number of Logical Video Cards: 1
No SLI or Crossfire Detected
Primary Display Resolution: 1920 x 1080
Desktop Resolution: 1920 x 1080
Primary Display Size: 20.51" x 11.54" (23.50" diag)
52.1cm x 29.3cm (59.7cm diag)
Primary Bus: PCI Express 16x
Primary VRAM: 2047 MB
Supported MSAA Modes: 2x 4x 8x

Sound card:
Audio device: Speakers (Realtek High Definiti

Memory:
RAM: 8191 Mb

Miscellaneous:
UI Language: English
Media Type: DVD
Total Hard Disk Space Available: 952483 Mb
Largest Free Hard Disk Block: 265139 Mb
OS Install Date: Jan 01 1970
Game Controller: None detected
VR Headset: None detected

Originally posted by tacoshy:
a FX-8350 is the highest you could technicall go without burnign the VRM but even that might be not the best idea espacially since this is a kinda low quality board.

However the evry best option would not to spend into a dead plattform in the first place.
i didnt realise

Last edited by rotNdude; Dec 25, 2018 @ 11:33am
#3
⛧EyMi Mayhem⛧ Dec 25, 2018 @ 10:53am 
Well tbh, would save the money for completly new up2date hardware.

Upgrading the fx will not rly help thaat much.

Whats your current budget?
#4
Lewmush Dec 25, 2018 @ 10:55am 
Originally posted by ⛧EyMi Mayhem⛧:
Well tbh, would save the money for completly new up2date hardware.

Upgrading the fx will not rly help thaat much.

Whats your current budget?
i dont want to get a new mobo because cex have a 2 year warrenty and installing a new mobo would break that. Yes installing a cpu would change that but it will be cheaper and easier to do. I dont trust myself with pc parts
#5
⛧EyMi Mayhem⛧ Dec 25, 2018 @ 10:59am 
Sounds like you bought a pre-built with outdated hardware.
#6
Lewmush Dec 25, 2018 @ 11:00am 
Originally posted by ⛧EyMi Mayhem⛧:
Sounds like you bought a pre-built with outdated hardware.
yeah is there anything i can do otherwise i will have to refund the game
#7
r.linder Dec 25, 2018 @ 11:17am 
Originally posted by LewMush:
Originally posted by ⛧EyMi Mayhem⛧:
Sounds like you bought a pre-built with outdated hardware.
yeah is there anything i can do otherwise i will have to refund the game

If you can't handle a game on the lowest settings at 1080p, you'll just have to refund that game.
#8
Lewmush Dec 25, 2018 @ 11:18am 
Originally posted by Escorve:
Originally posted by LewMush:
yeah is there anything i can do otherwise i will have to refund the game

If you can't handle a game on the lowest settings at 1080p, you'll just have to refund that game.
thats whatcive just done
#9
Omega Dec 25, 2018 @ 12:18pm 
Originally posted by LewMush:
Originally posted by ⛧EyMi Mayhem⛧:
Well tbh, would save the money for completly new up2date hardware.

Upgrading the fx will not rly help thaat much.

Whats your current budget?
i dont want to get a new mobo because cex have a 2 year warrenty and installing a new mobo would break that. Yes installing a cpu would change that but it will be cheaper and easier to do. I dont trust myself with pc parts
Then you got ripped off, this is a nearly 7 year old machine.
#10
calluM Dec 25, 2018 @ 1:46pm 
Gonna be that guy...

Upgrade to Ryzen, it's pointless upgrading from an FX-4300 to FX-8350 today
#11
Lewmush Dec 26, 2018 @ 2:02pm 
if i wanted to upgrade to an fx 630 (which would cure my bottlenecking of my 1050) can i do this as simply as swapping them out and starting up windows?
#12
Omega Dec 26, 2018 @ 2:15pm 
Originally posted by LewMush:
if i wanted to upgrade to an fx 630 (which would cure my bottlenecking of my 1050) can i do this as simply as swapping them out and starting up windows?
The FX 6300 will still be way too weak to run most modern games without dropping frames.

Nothing on the AM3+ platform is wroth upgrading to. Modern $50-$100 CPUs are equal to or even outperform the best CPUs on AM3+ in gaming. It's probably a better idea to start saving up for a modern machine and not spend any money on 7 year old hardware.
#13
Talby Dec 26, 2018 @ 2:21pm 
Agree I would just save up a bit more and go for a ryzen3 at the very least, fx6300 would be a waste of money IMHO, only a 7% increase[cpu.userbenchmark.com]
Last edited by Talby; Dec 26, 2018 @ 2:25pm
#14
Lewmush Dec 26, 2018 @ 2:26pm 
Originally posted by Talby:
Agree I would just save up a bit more and go for a ryzen3 at the very least, fx6300 would be a waste of money IMHO
yes but i dont want to buy a new mobo because i dont know how to install it. The fx 6300 will fix my bottlenecking of my 1050.

Originally posted by Omega:
Originally posted by LewMush:
if i wanted to upgrade to an fx 630 (which would cure my bottlenecking of my 1050) can i do this as simply as swapping them out and starting up windows?
The FX 6300 will still be way too weak to run most modern games without dropping frames.

Nothing on the AM3+ platform is wroth upgrading to. Modern $50-$100 CPUs are equal to or even outperform the best CPUs on AM3+ in gaming. It's probably a better idea to start saving up for a modern machine and not spend any money on 7 year old hardware.
Im only getting the fx 6300 to fix the bottlenecking on my 1050. Yes i know the platforms dead but i only play older or semi recent games and that has a bottleneck.Plus i dont have the knowledge or the money to get a mobo as im only 15. Could i do this with a simple swap then it will boot to windows?
#15
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Date Posted: Dec 25, 2018 @ 10:46am
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