For 1080p, upgrade from 280X or wait?

[NewbieOne]

TL;DR — 280X to MSI GamingX 1060 3GB for a decent price, for 1080p. Yes or no?

Longer version:

My PC is:

i5-6600 (non-K, not good for OC)
Asrock Fatality K6 mobo (would handle a K well)
16 GB RAM (G.Skill 3200/15 or something)
R9 280X (3GB RAM) with suspected VRAM damage
PSU is bronze-rated OCZ @ 650W, so probably not good enough for CF
decent case (Phanteks Enthoo) but less than optimal air flow for a number of reasons, so GPU cooling is not the best it could be

I have a decent 4 ns AMVA monitor, somewhat recently bought, so not really looking for a 1440p or 4K replacement any time soon. And it can't display >60 fps because of refresh rate.

Right now I can get a used MSI GamingX 1060 3GB from a guy who lives in my city. This means silence, less power draw, less overheating, less potential for VRAM damage, etc. And perfect assurance that the system has enough juice under load, with no room for power issues under peak load. All good things, just don't know if worth it in my situation, given that even the amount of RAM is the same and 1060 3GB is not exactly top of the line. Doubtless it would give me some improvement, just don't know how much really. And besides, when it gets to DX12, I'll probably need an upgrade. Plus, 1060 is already quite old.

The games I play do well, in general. The first and foremost difference is supersampling. In Witcher 2 it HALVED my fps. It was the same in Dragon Age 1. Hence even old games can't exactly be maxed out — games I'd played on a Core 2 Duo with the same GPU. Except for SSAA, I can run pretty much anything on ultra and still get fluid fps. Except a while ago I had to crank Mass Effect Andromeda down from Ultra to High not because of poor fps but because the card simply overheated and artifacted out. The 1060 presumably wouldn't.

What also prompts me to upgrade is the card artifacts after longer use (not necessarily high load or high temp, but those also contribute, of course). But I don't know with 100% certainty that it's the card. It could be the mobo or the CPU, I guess, though those are much newer.

My backlog to catch up on includes a bunch of mostly older games:

1. Witcher 2, only just started. Seeing almost perfectly consistent locked 60 fps after turning SSAA off.
2. Witcher 3. Will probably take a 10 fps dive compared to 2 but still be fluent @ high.
3. Grid 1, midway through.
4. Grid 2.
5. Dirt 4 or whatever you call it, plus the new one. At this point I may really need more juice.
6. Tropico 5
7. Kingdom Come. Here too I may need more juice.
8. Civ 5 if I really feel like it, maybe Civ 6.
9. Maybe something from the Total War series.

Otherwise it's hard to tell but probably mostly RPG plus a good deal of raids, some racers, some strategies. No competitive shooters or such like. In all these situations I'm fine with 40-45 fps, as long as it feels fluid and there's no tearing.

All in all, do you think getting the 1060 3GB right now is a good thing to do, or is it more reasonable to wait?

The reason I'm not mentioning the 6GB is that where I live it can cost 50% extra or even 100% extra for the same card but just more RAM. And 1070 is already out of my budget, let alone 1080. Experience teaches us the prices could go either up or down, nVidia and ATI could or could not release something new/postpone it, the new release could or could not affect the pricing, etc.

So would you grab the MSI GamingX 1060 3GB here and now if you were me, or not?

[upcoast]

Oprindeligt skrevet af tacoshy:

Oprindeligt skrevet af kamk /idle:

"only". 200 to 220 doesn't matter, but 40 to 60 FPS, or +50%, is quite a jump.

@OP 480 with 8GB will certainly remove the hazzle with vram limitations now and in the future. Performance is very similar to the 1060, edge here, bit slower there - same tier imho.

can fully agree on this one. besides a few games with "only 20 fps imporvement". is hardly the norm and in msot cases still a really good jump.

I'm just telling him my experience, 280x to the GTX1060/ Rx 580 better but not monumentally "ah man this is great" more like hmm it's better but "eh" but the R9 280x to the GTX1070 "awesome".

https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/msi_radeon_rx_480_gaming_x_review,18.html

Randomly Division R9 380x same as R9 280x avg 46fps ^ Rx 480 avg 61, 15 fps diff no biggie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yatCY6583EM

Go to 34:00 for #s ^, if you want ooooh and awww save up for the GTX1070/70ti ^.

Ya sure the 480 is better than the 280x but don't think it's wonderous it's ok.

[tacoshy]

Oprindeligt skrevet af upcoast:

Randomly Division R9 380x same as R9 280x avg 46fps ^ Rx 480 avg 61, 15 fps diff no biggie.

you see it at 15 FPS. I see it like 40%... And 40% in a worst case scenarios is really good tbh.
Its a bigger difference then from GTX 1070 to GTX 1080 or to GTX 1080 Ti.

[upcoast]

Oprindeligt skrevet af tacoshy:

Oprindeligt skrevet af upcoast:

Randomly Division R9 380x same as R9 280x avg 46fps ^ Rx 480 avg 61, 15 fps diff no biggie.

you see it at 15 FPS. I see it like 40%... And 40% in a worst case scenarios is really good tbh.
Its a bigger difference then from GTX 1070 to GTX 1080 or to GTX 1080 Ti.

Re-package it all you want at %40 but it's still only 15.

The discussion is what to get from an R9280x and in my opinion after already doing it the GTX1070 or more is the better long term card.

Like I said I'm not saying my Rx 580 is bad but its' life span will inevitably be shorter than the GTX1070.

TBH, Newbieone should just wait for a better card that he can afford vs making a stretched budget fit a card just because for the sake of it but it's obviously your choice Newbieone.

[LiMpY]

I say grab the 580. I'm playing 95% of my games with ultra settings 1080p with a lesser cpu. I think it's got lot's of life left in it.
Plus it's cool and quiet.

[just.kamk /idle]

Oprindeligt skrevet af upcoast:

Oprindeligt skrevet af tacoshy:

you see it at 15 FPS. I see it like 40%... And 40% in a worst case scenarios is really good tbh.
Its a bigger difference then from GTX 1070 to GTX 1080 or to GTX 1080 Ti.

Re-package it all you want at %40 but it's still only 15.

The discussion is what to get from an R9280x and in my opinion after already doing it the GTX1070 or more is the better long term card.

Like I said I'm not saying my Rx 580 is bad but its' life span will inevitably be shorter than the GTX1070.

TBH, Newbieone should just wait for a better card that he can afford vs making a stretched budget fit a card just because for the sake of it but it's obviously your choice Newbieone.

+15 FPS is a very vague statement. As i said before: 100 to 115 is pointless, 15 to 30 would be twice as much. So you should always refer to a percentage.

He goes from entry level to current mid range. Also consider he's on a budget, and the games he plays. It's a good upgrade for him.

Sure a 1070 would be fancier, but also way more expensive, for a gain he probably doesn't even need. Keep in mind, he's buying a leftover 480 for 170 bucks - HUGE difference to a 1070 price wise.

[NewbieOne]

Well, the problem is, I had a GPU budget, but I got swindled when buying a 1080 mail-ordered. I may recover the money months down the road when they go after the shop, if there are any assets to seize (kinda looks like the owner needed cash for a plane ticket, so not much chance, but his identifying information is all over the place), in which case I'll get myself something nice and new. Otherwise I'm mostly wondering if it wouldn't be a good idea to jump at one of the opportunities here and now before (not if) my current GPU dies. Say, I pay like 200 bucks, I sell my old card for like 80-100, I probably save a couple dozen on electricity biils with the lower TDP; I can certainly live with the balance, it could even be a little foolish not to go for it.

… But obviously, buying a 1060 3GB now will delay the next upgrade, so I'm questioning myself if it isn't a better idea to wait for a good deal on a 1060 6 GB or on a 580 (even 4GB is more than 3). The problem is, while used 1060 3GB is relatively inexpensive at PLN 650 for the lower end of the shelf and PLN 750 for MSI GamingX, the 6GB version costs like 850 for anything with two fans on it and up to or even above 1000 for nicer brands, at which point obviously 1070 makes so much more sense, except I don't have the kind of money in my computer budget.

One of the good things about 480 & 580 apart from the VRAM size is that you can CF it. But otherwise I'd stick with nVidia for the lower TDP, less noise, less hassle with case cooling, and assurance that no graphical glitches are the result of insufficient power from the PSU under full load.

But, according to my information both nVidia and AMD could be releasing something in Q1 2019 or even Q4 2018, which could perhaps give the prices a shake.

Also: the 480 disappeared minutes after my post, sadly.

What I saw today was a 1060 6GB for PLN 650, but it was a non-OC single-fan version from Inno3D, from a Bitcoin miner, so I didn't jump on it.

[TehSpoopyKitteh]

Just wait. Upgrade to a 1070Ti...you’ll have better performance than the current video card you have and at a better price.

[NewbieOne]

Okay, two more catches:

– the 480 8 GB returned, for PLN 750 (XFX Rx 480 RS)
- 580 8GB, MSI GamingX, for PLN 860

So it kinda makes little sense to go for the 480, given the 580 is just a little more expensive and comes with the better MSI cooler, doesn't it?

So at this point it's the 700 for GTX 1060 3GB vs 850 for RX 580 8GB for 850, both used. The dude with the 1060 lives in my city, so it's just a short ride.

In other words, is the 13% extra cost worth the difference? I guess it is, though it increases the budget again. But a 1070 would cost +50%.

[upcoast]

The R9 280x isn't bad it's usually a hair over the GTX1050ti and handle DX12 well, I'd still suggest you save your pennies for a while then figure out what you can get.

https://www.youtube.com/user/SuperRdawg16/videos

A lot of fps tests ^ in recent games with the R9 280x.

[just.kamk /idle]

Oprindeligt skrevet af NewbieOne:

In other words, is the 13% extra cost worth the difference? I guess it is, though it increases the budget again. But a 1070 would cost +50%.

It's the GamingX version, you get the more optimized 580 to begin with, and the overall better card. You pretty much get what you pay for.

1070 is ofc another step, question is if you need it actually. If you want to go 1440p long term, then you do for sure.

[NewbieOne]

Let's say I grab the MSI GamingX 580 GB and stick with my i5-6600. Can I reasonably expect to top out 1080p for 2018 games and some time forward?

What about cooling & noise? These are part of the reason I was looking primarily to nVidia. I was hoping I could get away with fewer/quieter case fans with nVidia than with AMD (and also avoid VRAM damage from overheating in the long run this way).

EDIT:

Seems there are some 6GB 1060s out there for ~PLN 800. Not the MSI GamingX, but something like plain Asus Dual Fan, but still. I'll need to consider these.

I've also taken a look at some new gaming benchmarks for 1080p, and it seems the typical performance gap between 3GB and 6GB for nVidia is ~5%, typically ~2 fps in 30-50 range. MSI GamingX 3GB sits somewhere in between, perhaps because of the hefty overclock. Obviously, 1 fps at ~50 wouldn't justify paying extra for it and getting a worse cooler.

However, in 1440p — which I could use through virtual resolution/scaling, or use some SSAA instead — the situation is a little different, and in individual scenes the memory deficiency makes itself felt, which the reviewers point out. I suspect the same may very well be the case in 1080p when you try Ultra textures. And, according to User Benchmark, 1060 and 580 are essentially on par, with single-digit percentile differences in performance, except for one thing: texture detail. Apparently, 580 produces like 40% better texture detail.

… And I'm a sucker for nice textures. Though I also like silence and no artifacts, and no VRAM overheating leading to artifacts months down the road.

[NewbieOne]

Hey guys, I got a question, largely experience-based, benchmarks and reviews won't really solve it for me.

It seems I may be getting some paid overtime this month, so my budget is likely to go up a bit. Not to the point of 1080, but let's say I'm hesitating about 1070.

So the question is: is 1070 worth paying 50% extra on top of 1060?

Basically, the prices fan out like this, only to give you a relative idea for comparing, so I'm not converting:

– good deal on an average 1060 3GB: PLN 650
– good deal on sth like MSI GamingX 3GB: PLN 700 (and I'm happy to pay the premium in this case), or just about any 580 4GB
– good deal (rare but does happen) on a 1060 6GB or 580 8GB: PLN 750-800, but these are entry-level brands/models
– 1070: PLN 1100 for something average with two fans (even MSI Armor ups it to 1200)
– 1080 won't go below PLN 1600, and that's definitely out of my budget

Unlike in the case of AMD, where the premium for good brands is only slight, for 1060 6GB and 1070 good makes like MSI GamingX or Asus Strixx command a huge premium up to 50%. Hence MSI GamingX 1060 6GB will typically cost more than something like Asus Dual 1070.

[Sapph]

Oprindeligt skrevet af NewbieOne:

Hey guys, I got a question, largely experience-based, benchmarks and reviews won't really solve it for me.

It seems I may be getting some paid overtime this month, so my budget is likely to go up a bit. Not to the point of 1080, but let's say I'm hesitating about 1070.

So the question is: is 1070 worth paying 50% extra on top of 1060?

Basically, the prices fan out like this, only to give you a relative idea for comparing, so I'm not converting:

– good deal on an average 1060 3GB: PLN 650
– good deal on sth like MSI GamingX 3GB: PLN 700 (and I'm happy to pay the premium in this case), or just about any 580 4GB
– good deal (rare but does happen) on a 1060 6GB or 580 8GB: PLN 750-800, but these are entry-level brands/models
– 1070: PLN 1100 for something average with two fans (even MSI Armor ups it to 1200)
– 1080 won't go below PLN 1600, and that's definitely out of my budget

Unlike in the case of AMD, where the premium for good brands is only slight, for 1060 6GB and 1070 good makes like MSI GamingX or Asus Strixx command a huge premium up to 50%. Hence MSI GamingX 1060 6GB will typically cost more than something like Asus Dual 1070.

You should be looking at used cards. Buying new ones is just what NVidia currently wants with RTX's prices.

You can get great deals on used ones.

[NewbieOne]

These are used ones. That's just the priceds we have in Poland. New cards cost plenty of extra. You can mail-order from abroad, but that means any combination of customs, VAT and shipment costs to pay, so it's not worth it.

[NewbieOne]

Hi, guys, bumping this. Ignore you feel fed up with the thread already.

Right at this moment, I can get a very good price on an MSI GamingX 1060 allegedly from a reputable seller — a company that used them for graphical design without overclocking or extreme use, selling like 10 of them. Obviously could be miners but looks legit.

Alternatively, there are some good prices on 1070tis, mostly from miners — which also explains why they are mostly mini itx single-fan versions — which is about double the price.

So the price is like +95%, and so is the performance difference between the cards. If the price-performance ratio wasn't equal, it would be easier to choose. ;)

My current monitor is a nice 1080p (Iiyama ProLite X2483HSU, with a 4 ms AMVA matrix with overdrive), which I don't really expect to be replacing any time soon unless I get a used 1440p at a bargain. Obviously, I could always use VSR/DSR for extra AA and keep literally everything at Ultra and be done with GPU replacements for a long time, e.g. only add a second 1070ti when they drop 50% in the price, at which point I could consider getting a better monitor.

Alternatively I could get the MSI 1060 3G and forget about upgrades for a while and just sit on my ass and watch how the situation unfolds next year to see if I even need to think about upgrading, and presumably the prices might budge at some point. At which time I might still be able to resell the MSI for almost the same price I paid for it. So this is a safer course. And obviously those used 1070s and 1070tis aren't going anywhere. They only might simply go up by like 50 dollars/euros/pounds/whatever when more buyers begin to realize the difference between plain 1070 and ti.

The good thing about the MSI Gaming X 3G is that it's even quieter than the 6G version, with something like 31 dbA load, and silence is something I particularly enjoy.

The bad thing is it won't completely max 1080p out, while 1070ti will, and 1070ti will also probably max 1440p out forever, and two 1070tis would probably max out 4K for a good time.

So what do you guys suggest? Do I jump at the 1070ti before buyers become more appreciative of the card, or do I make the more conservative, watchful step, stick with the 1060 3G and bide my time?

Or do I buy neither and instead keep trying to land a 1060 6gb / 580 8gb for a decent price or land a plain 1070 at a bargain?