Any enthusiasts into RAM overclocking?

[Kaihekoa]

I'm looking for something new but fairly inexpensive to tweak on my system and was thinking of buying some Samsung B die RAM to overclock. I know it will provide marginal benefit over the Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3200 C16 I have now, but just looking for some fun tinkering around with something new. The net cost of the upgrade would only be $50 after reselling old RAM. I'm wondering if any enthusiasts have OC'd high-end RAM w/ Samsung B die and seen a tangible benefit in minimum framerates or CPU heavy games with an Intel system.

[Ð₳Ɽ₭★𐌔Ŧ₳Ɽ]

overclocking ram will do nothing for you in gaming.

YouTube™ Video: Does RAM speed REALLY matter? 

Views: 7,036,897

Now that we have RAM modules capable of up to 4266MHz, we need to find out... does high speed RAM ACTUALLY make a difference?

[Kaihekoa]

The video doesn't really address the point, I already know overclocking RAM generally provides marginal benefit. High end RAM can achieve high frequencies and low timings when tuned, which reportedly can make a noticeable difference in CPU heavy games like Fallout 4 and Arma. LInus is a salesman and doesn't even specify RAM timings. Timings can make a big difference and this particular RAM can achieve some incredible overclocks, like DDR4 4000mhz @ 12-12-12-28 1T:

YouTube™ Video: Team Group T-Force Xtreem 2x8 DDR4-3733 // RAM at 4GHz CL12 

Views: 20,192

Manufacturer's site: http://www.teamgroupinc.com/en/product/T-Force%20Gaming/Gaming%20Memory%20Modules/DDR4%20MEMORY%20MODULES/XTREEM%20DDR4 Patreon and...

[chiefputsilao✖️ping]

Originally posted by ⎛⎝ÐarK★StaR⎠⎞:

overclocking ram will do nothing for you in gaming.

they say ryzen cpu benefits from faster RAM clocks.

[Omega]

Originally posted by ⎛⎝ÐarK★StaR⎠⎞:

overclocking ram will do nothing for you in gaming.

YouTube™ Video: Does RAM speed REALLY matter? 

Views: 7,036,897

Now that we have RAM modules capable of up to 4266MHz, we need to find out... does high speed RAM ACTUALLY make a difference?

It does. But it really depends on the game.

[Monk]

It's one of those areas that offers such small gains I have forgotten how to even do it lol.
I know going from ddr3 2133 to ddr4 3200 grants about a monstrous 5fps, and pushing that to 4000 grants about an extra 1 or 2 FPS at best, going from ddr4 2333 to 3200 is about a 3-4fps gain, so there are gains to be had, it's just time consuming and of limited use.

[tacoshy]

Originally posted by Monk:

It's one of those areas that offers such small gains I have forgotten how to even do it lol.
I know going from ddr3 2133 to ddr4 3200 grants about a monstrous 5fps, and pushing that to 4000 grants about an extra 1 or 2 FPS at best, going from ddr4 2333 to 3200 is about a 3-4fps gain, so there are gains to be had, it's just time consuming and of limited use.

Depends on the games. Best example might be ARMA III that is so heavily RAM depending that you can see huge jumps.

However I would not go beyond 1.35V for DDR4 for longtime use. If I think about that my RAM cost around 1 Grand, I would not risk it in ocing to reach high settings which needs incredible voltage. Also most Samsung B-die are sold heavily Binned. There 3200MHz at 1.35V is already the best you can get while at higher frequency you go on cost of CL timings.

[Monk]

Yeah that is the other thing, not going to risk £500 of RAM for no real gains.

[Malygos]

Look up buildzoid on youtube hes a pro overclocker he does a lot of ram overclocking id get fairly informed on it before trying or youll be doing a whole lot of cmos clearing. You might get some gains at 3600mhz but with 3200mhz id try improving timings before anything else. After about 1.45 volts you need to gauge your cooling ive been running my gskill at 1.43v for over a year no issues but each stick is different plenty of people say they run theres at 1.5+ no problem but im just not doing that

[Kaihekoa]

I was able to get the G.Skill DDR4 3600 CL15 kit w/ Samsung B die for $200 and am hoping to get a nice OC on it w/ ~1.5 vdimm. There doesn't appear to be too many CPU bound games these days, but I did find some interesting test results w/ a variety of different RAM speeds and tmings on Fallout 4 and Arma 3 here: http://www.overclock.net/forum/18051-memory/1611359-3770k-vs-6700k-fallout-4-arma-3-rainbow-six-siege-core-cache-memory-scaling-ddr3-1600c11-2133c9-ddr4-2133c15-3000c12-4000c17.html Not huge gains compared a DDR4 3200 CL14 kit, but about 6-7% more fps on a 1070 @ 1080p + tuned 6700K. Like I said, it's mostly for fun as I've already maxed out performance everywhere else without spending a ludicrous amount of money.

@jefe- Yes, I learned of him through Gamers Nexus and have watched a couple RAM overclocking videos. I'll definitely be doing some SuperPi and 3Dmark benching too.

[Malygos]

Originally posted by Kai:

I was able to get the G.Skill DDR4 3600 CL15 kit w/ Samsung B die for $200 and am hoping to get a nice OC on it w/ ~1.5 vdimm. There doesn't appear to be too many CPU bound games these days, but I did find some interesting test results w/ a variety of different RAM speeds and tmings on Fallout 4 and Arma 3 here: http://www.overclock.net/forum/18051-memory/1611359-3770k-vs-6700k-fallout-4-arma-3-rainbow-six-siege-core-cache-memory-scaling-ddr3-1600c11-2133c9-ddr4-2133c15-3000c12-4000c17.html Not huge gains compared a DDR4 3200 CL14 kit, but about 6-7% more fps on a 1070 @ 1080p + tuned 6700K. Like I said, it's mostly for fun as I've already maxed out performance everywhere else without spending a ludicrous amount of money.

@jefe- Yes, I learned of him through Gamers Nexus and have watched a couple RAM overclocking videos. I'll definitely be doing some SuperPi and 3Dmark benching too.

You can get some fps gains out of certain games fallout is one of them but its mostly about imporving minimums if you are gonna go for 1.5v or more id look into having good airflow across your ram or put a fan right above them to pull the heat out because thats starts getting into too hot range. Ram overclcoking can be fun to eek out those last little bit of gains but can be tedious when you start hitting the ceiling

[Kaihekoa]

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I know memtest86 is the best stress test. Is there a particular test or duration you'd recommend?

[Malygos]

Originally posted by Kai:

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I know memtest86 is the best stress test. Is there a particular test or duration you'd recommend?

Memtest is good for stability but xtu and realbench do the same if you know your system is stable all on other fronts you dont need to do crazy long test for ram 30min to an hour will do but the fastest way to test is load up a game. If my timings are no good games will crash to desktop instantly or as soon as i start playing which tells me i just need to loosen things up a little. Pushing timings too far you probably wont get into windows and will need a cmos clear

[xSOSxHawkens]

RAM overclocking is less abour the overclock and more about the underclock.

You will gain more benifit from gettnig all your timings as tight as your can at stock speeds than you will trying to up the speeds (and likely having to lossen the timings).

This is even more applicable to gaming, as once you get to a certian point, games cant do much with more bandwidth (speed) but they will nearly always benifit from faster responding ram (timings).

think of your timings like your ping online. A game can only use so much speed before the raw bandwidth needed for *games* is not longer a concern and the only one you have is how *fast* your computer can respond to server and visa versa. Same thing here.

Now if you were on somehting older it would be different, In modern OS's and games there is a tngable difference on older platforms going from seomthinng like DDR2-667 to DDR2-1066... Now speeds are low enough you will see an increase, but in DDR4, tighter timings are king for gaming over speed (Ryzen chips are the exception, until you get to fast enough for the CPU then anything higher is useless).




Also, if you are jsut bored on the OC side, going for low level CPU stuff can also give equal to or better benitfits over RAM clocking, such as ring bus, etc.

[tacoshy]

The way I understand it:

clock rate of RAM is how many cycles you have per second devided by 2. Means with DDR4-3200 you have 1,600,000 cycles per second meaning one cycle every 0.625ns.

The timings however descripe how long an operation needs per cycle not per NS. meaing CL14 needs 14*0.625 = 8,75ns to complete the operation.

DDR4-3600 with CL15 would be then 1,800,000 cycles per second = 1 cycle every 0.555ns. Multiplied with 15 = 8.33ns to complete the operation.


Edit: forgto to add 3 zeros, its 1,600,000 cyles per second not 1,600

[xSOSxHawkens]

Originally posted by tacoshy:

The way I understand it:

clock rate of RAM is how many cycles you have per second devided by 2. Means with DDR4-3200 you have 1600 cycles per second meaning one cycle every 0.625ns.

The timings however descripe how long an operation needs per cycle not per NS. meaing CL14 needs 14*0.625 = 8,75ns to complete the operation.

DDR4-3600 with CL15 would be then 1800 cycles per second = 1 cycle every 0.555ns. Multiplied with 15 = 8.33ns to complete the operation.

You are right, but you are comparing a gain of +200Mhz vs a gain of -1 to a single timing (assuming CL). A mroe fair comparison would be a -2 on CL.

You are also assuming you gained the +200 w/o having to lossen any timings.

In my personal experiance, which admitadly might varry from others, I have always found more sucess (as in how far I could go) in tighting timings vs higher speeds. Basically, I think it would be easier to get -2 CL than +200Mhz.

Case in point, my old backup rig. SPD is 800Mhz @ 6-6-6-18, I can push it +100 (900mhz) but have to losen out to 7-7-7-24 for asbility. Or I can run ~800 @ 4-5-4-15...

Older ram, but same principle applly. Had the same experiances on my DDR3 and DDR setups, heck, even as far back as SDRAM and EDO...

Though I have yet to get to overclock or play with DDR4 ram in an enthusiast capacity, I would doubt its boken a rule of thumb that has lasted me through 5 itterations of RAM standards, but hey, you never know ;)


BTW, to the example listed, a -2 CL would result in 8.125ns ;)




Lastly, dont forget that RAM has more than a single timing. When you OC you will *likely* have your MB lossen them automatically, unless you manualy set them all by SPD from the start. Few manufaturers list the SPD timings for *all* timings availble on modern motherboards, and you might have to contact the memory vendor to get the more advanced timings.

When staying at stock speed you can just set them all to the auto set values at start and then slowly tighten each one without effecting any of the others.